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The Nicene Creed - line by line

WisdomTree

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I would assume that after the apostles established the first Churches, that any offspring churches from those would teach the same doctrine, and even have the same epistles and gospel. Maybe not all the epistles but would have enough to know how to serve the Lord. Unless of course these offspring Churches were not offspring churches at all but were actually started by men outside those first Churches.

I'd say most Churches were founded by the Apostles and/or Disciples of Christ and any offspring Churches were founded by their disciples. The gospel would have been the same, but the letters probably were not in wide circulation initially since they probably didn't have the fastest courier service we have today.

Anyways, I say we leave this point here for now before we go completely off topic.
 
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Restoresmysoul

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Not just didn't, still doesn't.

I Googled Byzantine Rite, wikipedia says that it is the same liturgical rite used by the Easter Orthodox Church. Is this true and does this mean that the Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't use the book known as Revelation?
 
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Restoresmysoul

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I'd say most Churches were founded by the Apostles and/or Disciples of Christ and any offspring Churches were founded by their disciples. The gospel would have been the same, but the letters probably were not in wide circulation initially since they probably didn't have the fastest courier service we have today.

Anyways, I say we leave this point here for now before we go completely off topic.

Agreed, but can you answer my last post? Thank you.
 
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WisdomTree

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I Googled Byzantine Rite, wikipedia says that it is the same liturgical rite used by the Easter Orthodox Church. Is this true and does this mean that the Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't use the book known as Revelation?

Byzantine Rite is an umbrella term used to describe a liturgical rite derived from Constantinople, which is the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom which in itself I believe originates from Antioch and was a modified form of Divine Liturgy of Saint James the Just.

In that sense, Byzantine Rite includes anyone who is a member of the Byzantine Catholic and the entire Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern Orthodox Church definitely has the Revelations According to Saint John thus they do use it, but it is not part of the liturgy probably because it was accepted into the canon after the liturgy was developed (it was quite a late addition in most Churches).
 
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MoreCoffee

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I believe in one God is the English translation of these words in Greek Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν and in the liturgy it is Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν and the Latin equivalent is Credo in unum Deum when it is said in the liturgy. It seems almost too ordinary to be worth comment yet when it was formulated it was a beacon of light shining in a polytheistic empire where the followers of paganism vastly outnumbered Christians. It was also a controversial proclamation because it implied that not only were the pagan gods not believed in by Christians but also that the emperor was not a god in whom Christians placed any faith. And when it is noted that the first Nicene council was summoned by a Roman emperor who was (until recently) regarded as a divinity it becomes obvious how subversive of the order of things that then existed the opening words of the creed really were.

I believe, it says, rather than stating "God is one" it starts by affirming my belief in the oneness of God. My belief as a follower of Jesus Christ. My belief as one who hopes in one God and is willing to give up the gods and the values of a culture that conquered the known world. A culture that was vigorous and powerful and thoroughly polytheistic.

Today believing in one God in an English speaking nation is commonplace, almost the norm, or so it seems. Yet the words of the creed still have power to shock; try saying "I believe in one God" to your work mates, your sporting friends, your family and perhaps you'll see how controversial the words still can be.

"I believe in one God" shakes the foundations of every kind of self-sufficiency because the one God in which I believe is not me.
 
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Targaryen

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I believe in one God is the English translation of these words in Greek Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν and in the liturgy it is Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν and the Latin equivalent is Credo in unum Deum when it is said in the liturgy. It seems almost too ordinary to be worth comment yet when it was formulated it was a beacon of light shining in a polytheistic empire where the followers of paganism vastly outnumbered Christians. It was also a controversial proclamation because it implied that not only were the pagan gods not believed in by Christians but also that the emperor was not a god in whom Christians placed any faith. And when it is noted that the first Nicene council was summoned by a Roman emperor who was (until recently) regarded as a divinity it becomes obvious how subversive of the order of things that then existed the opening words of the creed really were.

I believe, it says, rather than stating "God is one" it starts by affirming my belief in the oneness of God. My belief as a follower of Jesus Christ. My belief as one who hopes in one God and is willing to give up the gods and the values of a culture that conquered the known world. A culture that was vigorous and powerful and thoroughly polytheistic.

Today believing in one God in an English speaking nation is commonplace, almost the norm, or so it seems. Yet the words of the creed still have power to shock; try saying "I believe in one God" to your work mates, your sporting friends, your family and perhaps you'll see how controversial the words still can be.

"I believe in one God" shakes the foundations of every kind of self-sufficiency because the one God in which I believe is not me.

Coffee....you when with the same point of view I had floating in my head as I headed to bed last night. Trust me for waiting till now to post.

I would add aside from the cult of the emperor in Roman culture of the time and apart from the Judaic or even Zoroastrian faiths, the concept of a sole God to others is still very much a world apart from what most people would know. The concept that a sole God would behind ever supernatural or natural event rather then the thousands of deities their pantheons contained was as radical on its own never mind the additional radical thoughts that accompanied its statement
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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Luckily this very website has a copy with scriptural references to each line. So that renders that argument null. ;)

Oh trust me, it is coming regardless, because it is not literally written in the bible verse by verse. It will be contested by the extremely literal sola scriptura people.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Originally Posted by MoreCoffee
I believe in one God is the English translation of these words in Greek Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν and in the liturgy it is Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν and the Latin equivalent is Credo in unum Deum when it is said in the liturgy. It seems almost too ordinary to be worth comment yet when it was formulated it was a beacon of light shining in a polytheistic empire where the followers of paganism vastly outnumbered Christians. It was also a controversial proclamation because it implied that not only were the pagan gods not believed in by Christians but also that the emperor was not a god in whom Christians placed any faith. And when it is noted that the first Nicene council was summoned by a Roman emperor who was (until recently) regarded as a divinity it becomes obvious how subversive of the order of things that then existed the opening words of the creed really were.

I believe, it says, rather than stating "God is one" it starts by affirming my belief in the oneness of God. My belief as a follower of Jesus Christ. My belief as one who hopes in one God and is willing to give up the gods and the values of a culture that conquered the known world. A culture that was vigorous and powerful and thoroughly polytheistic.

Today believing in one God in an English speaking nation is commonplace, almost the norm, or so it seems. Yet the words of the creed still have power to shock; try saying "I believe in one God" to your work mates, your sporting friends, your family and perhaps you'll see how controversial the words still can be.

"I believe in one God" shakes the foundations of every kind of self-sufficiency because the one God in which I believe is not me.

Coffee....you when with the same point of view I had floating in my head as I headed to bed last night. Trust me for waiting till now to post.

I would add aside from the cult of the emperor in Roman culture of the time and apart from the Judaic or even Zoroastrian faiths, the concept of a sole God to others is still very much a world apart from what most people would know. The concept that a sole God would behind ever supernatural or natural event rather then the thousands of deities their pantheons contained was as radical on its own never mind the additional radical thoughts that accompanied its statement

Thanks for bringing that out. I wasn't even considering the religious and political norms of the time.

I also especially like your last sentence, MC. :)
 
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WisdomTree

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Oh trust me, it is coming regardless, because it is not literally written in the bible verse by verse. It will be contested by the extremely literal sola scriptura people.

Except they can't since that will violate the rules of this forum.
 
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Albion

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Byzantine liturgy didn't use revelation. Interesting

It certainly does USE it. The better part of its liturgy--the mysterious, gilded, elaborate look and feel that seem so foreign to visitors familiar with Western liturgical services--owes to the description of things in John's Revelation.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Hi everyone: A couple of things: First, if memory serves, the Nicene Creed was formulated at one Ecumenical council and confirmed a short time later at another one. So I definitely agree with Kylissa, let's leave all the denominational baggage at the doorstep and take a look at this Creed as "Christians" only.

Second, an interesting point to remember as you look up the Scriptural references for this Creed is this, the NT did not exist when this Creed was written (well, not in the form we have it in today anyway). So I have a question, does anyone know if the Nicene Creed officially references/quotes anything beyond the OT and 27 books of what would become the NT? And how about the Apocrypha? Were any of its unique verses quoted or referenced in this Creed's formulation?

Thanks!

--David


Thanks for bringing this up, David. The subject of the Creed probably deserves a lot of introductory material, and I'm glad you all are going into that. I think we have time and space in addition to the Creed itself, and it's important. I was just afraid that if I launched into an intro before even beginning, it would get totally off topic and some of the same posters might not be interested in both "parts".

This is a great question. I had actually never thought of it. I'm not sure if there is a good answer, but I would love to "know" for sure.

I may be wrong but The Creed itself doesn't really seem to be "quoted verses" in many cases, since for so many of its statements, there could be myriad verses referenced. I think?

And I'm guessing it also depends what "Apocrypha" you mean? If you mean the books from the Septuagint that are not included in most Protestant Bibles but are part of the canon of traditional churches, then I don't think much of it would be in there (of course you know this - I'm stating the obvious, LOL).

So I'm guessing you mean those books that were not eventually codified as part of the canon, but may have been in circulation through the early Church.

Again, that's an interesting question. The Didadache mentions the second coming (and maybe more). I'm really not sure of books like some of the spurious Gospels, etc?

I do think it can be said that we need not go outside of the accepted Canon in order to find anything that has been codified in the Creed. I'm not sure, but that might be the most "complete" answer we can really have?

Very interesting question, and if anyone has any answers or insight, I'd be interested as well. :)
 
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~Anastasia~

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Oh trust me, it is coming regardless, because it is not literally written in the bible verse by verse. It will be contested by the extremely literal sola scriptura people.

Then they can go start their own threads in protest. :p

By the sites rules, one MUST agree with the Nicene Creed in order to post in this section, so I will trust Staff to be interested in the rules being upheld as well. :)
 
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WisdomTree

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I wish I could memorize it, because it makes explaining my religion a whole lot easier to just repeat what it says. it sums up the basic fundamentals of all denominations.

I have trouble even memorising the Roman Creed/Apostles' Creed. The Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is doable, but a lot more difficult (though we can memorise the gist of it). Chalcedonian Creed is easier, but that only covers Christology and then there's the Athanasian Creed...

Screw it, I'll just try and memorise the Lord's Prayer... In Latin! :p
 
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~Anastasia~

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I wish I could memorize it, because it makes explaining my religion a whole lot easier to just repeat what it says. it sums up the basic fundamentals of all denominations.

I'm working on it. If you repeat it enough times ... ;) But I noticed under pressure a few weeks ago I couldn't do it.

I can say it with a group, no problem. To recite it all on my own, I may forget a phrase here or there still. I'm not good at memorizing things like that.

I noticed in the OCA Churches, they sing it. If we did that, I'd probably know it by now (but then I'd have to sing it to remember it). I learned the books of the NT from a song when I was a small child and I sometimes still sing sections of it in my head when I'm looking something up in a paper Bible (electronics are spoiling me).
 
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Targaryen

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One reason why I love the Anglican liturgy so much. During every service one of the Creeds is said, during the Eucharist it's usually the Nicene and during Morning/Evening Prayer it's usually the Apostle's Creed.

Also St.Worm2 wondered why the Apostle's Creed begins with I rather then We . I'm not sure how it is in the other traditional liturgical churches, but in the Anglican tradition, The Apostle's Creed is the Creed recited during Holy Baptism.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I believe in one God. What I have experience with is the Father of all, that thru confession of Jesus as the Son of God, not just in my heart but with my lips also, is my God. He is the God that abides within me and I in Him. At that I freely express because of the awesomeness of Him with Whom I have to do. Of course that goes into the composition of the abiding of within but at this point the scripture brings out the fact of the abiding that is central to my beliefs so I'm happy that it's the first thing mentioned in the Nicene Code. And all that it covers in further statements.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I Googled Byzantine Rite, wikipedia says that it is the same liturgical rite used by the Easter Orthodox Church. Is this true and does this mean that the Eastern Orthodox Church doesn't use the book known as Revelation?

The Apocalypse of St. John (the Revelation) isn't used in the Eastern lectionary (the regular Scripture readings that form a fundamental portion of the Liturgy). But it is still accepted as Holy Scripture.

The reason for this goes back to antiquity. In the Western Church the Apocalypse of St. John has been widely accepted, the Latin Fathers widely speak favorably on it and emphasize its position as Holy Scripture. The Eastern Church was very slow to accept this book, and the Greek and other Eastern Fathers do not speak of it very often. It really isn't until the 8th century that the Eastern Church came to embrace it more fully, in part because of the influence of St. John of Damascus, one of the most important Eastern theologians of that period, who argued strongly for its full acceptance.

The Canon of the New Testament evolved rather slowly, and was not in every place uniformly accepted at the same time. The Armenian Church for many years included a book known as III Corinthians, though it does so no longer. Biblical codices from the 5th century, namely Sinaiticus, includes 1 Clement and the Epistle of Barnabas.

The New Testament can largely be divided into two categories:

1) Those books which were very nearly and universally accepted from very early on, most prominently the Four Gospels, and the Thirteen Epistles of St. Paul. Also here we can place 1 John and 1 Peter.

2) Those books which were known as Antilegomena, meaning "Disputed Books", these include 2 and 3 John, 2 Peter, Jude, James, Hebrews, and the Apocalypse of St. John. But it also included works that are now no longer accepted by anyone, the Didache, 1 Clement, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and sometimes also the Apocalypse of Peter.

A late 2nd century/early 3rd century manuscript known as the Muratorian Fragment lists those books which were most widely accepted, while also mentioning those that were disputed.

In the West, as late as the 14th century, John Wycliffe in his English translation includes the spurious Epistle of Paul to the Laodiceans, which was never widely accepted and in most places widely regarded as a spurious forgery. That means that Wycliffe's New Testament contains 28 rather than 27 books.

Luther very nearly removed four books from his German translation of the Bible, specifically Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Apocalypse of John. Though he was convinced to keep them by others, though he placed them last; thus they were treated only slightly better than the Old Testament Deuterocanonicals, which Luther placed in a separate appendix. Though in some ways Luther speaks more favorably of these Deuterocanonicals than he does of those four NT texts, in particular he took issue with James early on, calling it an "Epistle of Straw" and "having no Gospel in it whatsoever".

The history of the Biblical Canon is two thousand years old, and it's clear that we are still debating it even today; one need only consult the differences in Canon between Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Bibles; having 66, 73, and ~76 books respectively. And further differences among these three even when dealing with accepted books, such as Esther, Daniel, and the Psalms (the Eastern Orthodox accept 151st Psalm as canonical, Roman Catholics and Protestants do not).

As such we must understand that the Biblical Canon is not something given by Divine Fiat, but is the resulting evolution of within Christian Church through general consensus of that Christian Church--and even then there still does not remain perfect and universal consensus.

This should not be regarded as a problem for the divine integrity and authority of Scripture, as long as we approach Scripture rightly and not make assumptions about Scripture that are neither themselves Scriptural nor in keeping with the rather plain history of the Canon of Scripture.

This isn't a problem for an historical understanding of Sola Scriptura, as understood by the Reformers who readily and enthusiastically allowed history and tradition to inform their reading of Scripture (but not lord over it). But it may be a problem for certain "Bible onlyists" whose unwillingness to read the Scriptures within the confessional and believing communion of saints throughout history might find the history and lack of rigidity of the Canon's history troublesome--and the Canon's dependence upon the history and tradition of the Christian Church a stumbling block.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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~Anastasia~

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This should not be regarded as a problem for the divine integrity and authority of Scripture, as long as we approach Scripture rightly and not make assumptions about Scripture that are neither themselves Scriptural nor in keeping with the rather plain history of the Canon of Scripture.

This isn't a problem for an historical understanding of Sola Scriptura, as understood by the Reformers who readily and enthusiastically allowed history and tradition to inform their reading of Scripture (but not lord over it). But it may be a problem for certain "Bible onlyists" whose unwillingness to read the Scriptures within the confessional and believing communion of saints throughout history might find the history and lack of rigidity of the Canon's history troublesome--and the Canon's dependence upon the history and tradition of the Christian Church a stumbling block.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for that wonderful summary. CL, with your permission, I would like to start a separate thread regarding this, because I believe it deserves its own space, and it would be too off topic for this one. I wasn't really aware of the way the Reformers handled this.

May I please quote this in a new thread and I will post the link here? Anyone who is interested, please wait for another thread and not discuss it here.

I am really very interested in knowing more about this though?

Thank you so much.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If we're still attempting to remain on topic, and if we're still on the first line of the Creed,

"We believe in one God"

There is much to be said I think.

It is the foundation of Israel's Monotheism, that there is only one God, and none beside Him (Isaiah 45:5, Exodus 20:2-4, Deuteronomy 6:4).

The Church's one faith is bound and imbedded in the ancient Faith of Israel, of the one God, YHVH, the God who says to Moses, "I AM". This faith has not changed, God remains the same yesterday and forever, "I the LORD do not change". The one God of Israel, the God of the fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God we confess and profess. He is our God, He--the only God--is God. We shall confess Him before the nations, as the People of God have always done and always been called to do. Even as Israel was to be a light among the nations, so shall we God's Church continue to be that light, proclaiming among the nations the one and only God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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