Endogenous Retroviruses: Evidence for Human Evolution

[morse86]

We don't need pictures of the HIV virus to verify that it is a retrovirus. The HIV retrovirus has all of the genes needed for a retrovirus (e.g. pol, env, gag), and it is verified to insert into the human genome. It is a retrovirus.

Is this some sort of joke? HIV hasn't never been isolated in the lab, they found some "cellular debris" and claim it is evidence for for HIV. It has never ever met the Koch postulates.

Yet you are saying it has all the genes needed for a retrovirus.


I see you never answered my question about diagnosing aids according to the WHO bangui criteria. Does it expose your "endogenous retroviruses" article??

 

[Loudmouth]

Is this some sort of joke? HIV hasn't never been isolated in the lab, they found some "cellular debris" and claim it is evidence for for HIV. It has never ever met the Koch postulates.

Yet you are saying it has all the genes needed for a retrovirus.

You don't have to isolate a retrovirus to verify that it is a retrovirus.

 

[justlookinla]

I just gave you part of the evidence in the opening post, and you can't even address it.



I just showed you the FACTS that ERV's are produced by retroviruses. I gave you peer reviewed papers where retroviruses are OBSERVED to insert into the human genome. This isn't opinion. This is fact.

If you can't tell the difference between facts and opinion, then you have no business criticizing science.



Is it a faith based belief that retroviruses insert into host genomes?

Is it a faith based belief that the human genome contains over 200,000 examples of retroviral insertions?

Is it a faith based belief that retroviruses insert randomly among many, many bases in the genome?

Which of these is a faith based belief?

There is no evidence and all you have is the ever moving, ever changing, shifting sands of scienceism/evolutionism. You should recognize the fact that the views on the genome is a constantly changing thing, simply look at the false claims made just a few years ago concerning junk DNA. Your opinion of ERVs is no more than that, just your opinion. What you claim is true today may very well be false tomorrow.

You've provided nothing except your faith in what has shown to be changing 'truths'.

 

[morse86]

You don't have to isolate a retrovirus to verify that it is a retrovirus.

So, the boogeyman did it? The invisible enemy?

Sorry, I like repeatable/testable experiments....like real science.


When you have answered the Bangui criteria, then we can discuss about retroviruses. Just to summarize, if you have a cough and lost weight in a malnutrition part of africa...you have HIV (according to the criteria).

 

[Loudmouth]

So, the boogeyman did it? The invisible enemy?

Sorry, I like repeatable/testable experiments....like real science.

I just gave you the repeatable/testable experiments.

Retroviral DNA Integration: ASLV, HIV, and MLV Show Distinct Target Site Preferences

They repeatedly found HIV insertions in a human host genome. Everyone who has worked with HIV has found HIV insertions in the host genome using multiple experiments. It is a retrovirus.

When you have answered the Bangui criteria, then we can discuss about retroviruses. Just to summarize, if you have a cough and lost weight in a malnutrition part of africa...you have HIV (according to the criteria).

I already demonstrated that HIV is a retrovirus.

 

[Loudmouth]

There is no evidence and all you have is the ever moving, ever changing, shifting sands of scienceism/evolutionism.

I just gave you that evidence. Please address it.

You should recognize the fact that the views on the genome is a constantly changing thing, simply look at the false claims made just a few years ago concerning junk DNA. Your opinion of ERVs is no more than that, just your opinion. What you claim is true today may very well be false tomorrow.

If you have evidence that contradicts my posts, then please present it. Empty assertions mean nothing.

 

[justlookinla]

I just gave you the repeatable/testable experiments.

Retroviral DNA Integration: ASLV, HIV, and MLV Show Distinct Target Site Preferences

They repeatedly found HIV insertions in a human host genome. Everyone who has worked with HIV has found HIV insertions in the host genome using multiple experiments. It is a retrovirus.



I already demonstrated that HIV is a retrovirus.

This means about as much as the error promoted for decades concerning junk DNA.

When will this 'truth' change?

 

[morse86]

Any creationists who wants to learn about HIV deception, please start off with this:
1985 World Health Organization AIDS surveillance case definition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the inclusion criteria.

 

[Loudmouth]

Any creationists who wants to learn about HIV deception, please start off with this:
1985 World Health Organization AIDS surveillance case definition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the inclusion criteria.

How do you explain the HIV insertions found in host genomes?

 

[Loudmouth]

This means about as much as the error promoted for decades concerning junk DNA.

When will this 'truth' change?

Trying to change the subject again?

Address the ERV evidence.

 

[justlookinla]

Trying to change the subject again?

Address the ERV evidence.

Address the 'evidence' for junk DNA....until the 'evidence' changed.

You're on the shifting sands of scienceism/evolutionism.

 

[Loudmouth]

Address the 'evidence' for junk DNA....until the 'evidence' changed.

If you start a thread on junk DNA I would be more than happy to contribute.

Please address the ERV evidence.

 

[justlookinla]

If you start a thread on junk DNA I would be more than happy to contribute.

Please address the ERV evidence.

We see that 'scientific evidence' changes. I'm not interested in embracing the wishy washy religion of scienceism/evolutionism when I have the rock of the word of God to stand on.

 

[Loudmouth]

We see that 'scientific evidence' changes. I'm not interested in embracing the wishy washy religion of scienceism/evolutionism when I have the rock of the word of God to stand on.

Your refusal to address the evidence is noted. From now on, your claims that there is no evidence is a completely hollow claim.

 

[justlookinla]

Your refusal to address the evidence is noted. From now on, your claims that there is no evidence is a completely hollow claim.

Here today, gone tomorrow claims aren't evidence. The dorks who promoted the junk DNA claims are probably the same ones who are promoting the ERV claims that you embrace today. As long as it's promoting scienceism/evolutionism, there are those who willingly follow the religion to present them as evidence.

 

[Loudmouth]

Here today, gone tomorrow claims aren't evidence.

I gave you observations of retroviruses inserting into host genomes, the pattern or retroviral insertion, and a direct count of the retroviral insetions found in the human genome. That is evidence, not a claim.

Once again, you refuse to address the evidence. Sadly predictable.

 

[lasthero]

Here today, gone tomorrow claims aren't evidence. The dorks who promoted the junk DNA claims are probably the same ones who are promoting the ERV claims that you embrace today. As long as it's promoting scienceism/evolutionism, there are those who willingly follow the religion to present them as evidence.

Name-calling. Nice.

You stay classy, just.

 

[lost999]

Name-calling. Nice. You stay classy, just.

It's just frustration when you feel deep down your beliefs are most likely wrong.

I went through the same thing at one point. It was a gradual process of letting go of erroneous beliefs.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Stop evading the question. Answer the Bangui criteria. This proves world wide deception.

Please answer it, you can look up the crtieria on wikipedia. How many malnutrition cases were diagnosed as HIV and given chemotheraphy drugs (AZT)?

When they died from the AZT poison, they get counted as a AIDS statistic. Where is the morality in that one?


I will sum it up once again for you...if one has ANY combination of these symptoms...THEY HAVE HIV (according to the bangui criteria):
Weight loss exceeding 10% of body weight
Diarrhoea lasting for more than a month
Continuous or repeated attacks of fever for more than a month
Cough


Good thing Bill Gates is in the malnutritioned part of the world giving those dna-chain terminating "treatments".

This isn't about ERV's. Start a thread on it if you want to continue. I suggest that no one respond to you if you waiver from the thread topic at all, because it looks like you are trying to derail this thread.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Here today, gone tomorrow claims aren't evidence. The dorks who promoted the junk DNA claims are probably the same ones who are promoting the ERV claims that you embrace today. As long as it's promoting scienceism/evolutionism, there are those who willingly follow the religion to present them as evidence.

Although I had my doubts, I was hoping that you would actually address the evidence with some sort of substantive rebuttal. Instead you did what others predicted.

So, what kind of example are you setting for young Christians when you are:
1. Name calling
2. Hurling accusations of lying without evidence of intent.
3. Misrepresenting the position of another poster.
4. Misrepresenting the definition of words.
5. Refusing to discuss the evidence that you asked for.

You are fooling no one by making assertions that are not related to the topic at hand and using those assertions as an excuse to avoid answering the questions concerning the evidence provided.

If you are a teacher in your church and you are the provider of the case against evolution, it is a sad state of affairs for your brand of creationism. What would you do if a young person in your class brought up ERV's in the way that Loudmouth did....yell at them...throw rocks....accuse them of being an antichrist?

Maybe you don't allow questions. Perhaps you feel that your God cannot withstand questions on certain subjects.