Why Evolution is True (2)

[dad]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Why Evolution is True"

 

[AirPo]

Carry on.

 

[dad]

Carry on.

Ha. Looks like you got the last and first word this time.

 

[AirPo]

Ha. Looks like you got the last and first word this time.

It's the little things in life that matter.

 

[createdtoworship]

subscribing

 

[PsychoSarah]

Anyways, going to respond to my point earlier dad?

 

[dad]

TLK -----You're evading. What does being saved have to do with retribution?

Everything, when it comes to the heart condition on the other side. We are new creatures. God is working on the hearts of His people. Inside. The kingdom of heaven is within us. He creates in us a clean new heart. Forget the old man, and how he hated classmates or whatever. We are becoming dead to sin and the old nature. He changes us.

Listen to the Almighty tell you in His Own words!

Eze 11:19 -And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:





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[dad]

Anyways, going to respond to my point earlier dad?

Here is your last post

"Thomas Jefferson made his own version of the New Testament which edited out all the miracles, without any consequence. In fact, you can still order a Jefferson bible online if you want. God. Doesn't. Stop. People. From. Messing. With. Scripture.

If god stopped people from warping biblical stuff, I am pretty sure the Book of Mormon wouldn't have been tolerated (it plagerizes quite a bit from the bible, beyond having its own weird and highly offensive story. Sorry Mormons, but I just can't get over some of the racist bits)."


One cannot edit out all the miracles, and the fact one would try speaks volumes about the nincompoopery of that individual. Jesus being born was a miracle. Did he edit that out? He was born for a reason as foretold by prophets and would have signs that followed Him too show Who He was.


We do have the original scriptures, so how can someone warp them? We can compare what they translate to the original.

 

[PsychoSarah]

One cannot edit out all the miracles, and the fact one would try speaks volumes about the nincompoopery of that individual. Jesus being born was a miracle. Did he edit that out? He was born for a reason as foretold by prophets and would have signs that followed Him too show Who He was.


We do have the original scriptures, so how can someone warp them? We can compare what they translate to the original.

You can't prove that is the original scripture, in fact it is highly unlikely the first versions of any of the biblical texts has survived the test of times, books decay, they wear out, they can be burned by conquering armies and lost to fading.

Also, edit the birth of Jesus to no be a virgin birth and no longer a miracle.

 

[createdtoworship]

You can't prove that is the original scripture, in fact it is highly unlikely the first versions of any of the biblical texts has survived the test of times, books decay, they wear out, they can be burned by conquering armies and lost to fading.

Also, edit the birth of Jesus to no be a virgin birth and no longer a miracle.

no one needs to prove it. We just need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. BTW low criticism is what it is called when they compare various manuscripts to what they view was closest to the original. The originals are extant. But we have copies, numerous copies with 99.7 % accuracy between them. Some sort of diety must have made that happen.

 

[createdtoworship]

“Richard Lewontin (an evolutionary biologist and geneticist) once famously wrote a review of a book written by Carl Sagan and admitted that science is skewed to ignore any supernatural explanation, even when the evidence might indicate that natural, material explanations are lacking.”
“We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.2”
2Richard Lewontin, “Billions and Billions of Demons,” review of The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan, New York Review, January 9, 1997, 31.

Quote above taken from: Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels; J Warner Wallace; copy write 2013.

 

[Loudmouth]

no one needs to prove it. We just need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. BTW low criticism is what it is called when they compare various manuscripts to what they view was closest to the original. The originals are extant. But we have copies, numerous copies with 99.7 % accuracy between them. Some sort of diety must have made that happen.

I am sure that I can find multiple copies of the Harry Potter books that are 100% the same. Does that mean Harry Potter was a real person, and that God was responsible for having copies that were 100% the same?

 

[Loudmouth]

“Richard Lewontin (an evolutionary biologist and geneticist) once famously wrote a review of a book written by Carl Sagan and admitted that science is skewed to ignore any supernatural explanation, even when the evidence might indicate that natural, material explanations are lacking.”

It is skewed because science requires empirical evidence, and there is no empirical evidence for the supernatural.

 

[createdtoworship]

It is skewed because science requires empirical evidence, and there is no empirical evidence for the supernatural.

so what your saying is they would rather be admittedly wrong, then put a divine foot in the door.

remember the end of the quote:

"we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.2”
2Richard Lewontin, “Billions and Billions of Demons,” review of The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan, New York Review, January 9, 1997, 31.

this proves that evolution is materialistically biased

 

[createdtoworship]

I am sure that I can find multiple copies of the Harry Potter books that are 100% the same. Does that mean Harry Potter was a real person, and that God was responsible for having copies that were 100% the same?

your comparing photo copying to hand writting on papyrus?

thats a category error. One is automatic, the other not.

 

[PsychoSarah]

no one needs to prove it. We just need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. BTW low criticism is what it is called when they compare various manuscripts to what they view was closest to the original. The originals are extant. But we have copies, numerous copies with 99.7 % accuracy between them. Some sort of diety must have made that happen.

Not really, many records have been kept to a tee to the originals, even a few which were older than the bible. However, this was partially thanks to the fact that they didn't go through the translation process nearly as many times as the bible did. And don't forget the countless years most of the biblical teachings of the Old Testament went through as complete oral traditions, making it impossible to definitively say what the original teachings were actually like.

 

[dad]

Not really, many records have been kept to a tee to the originals, even a few which were older than the bible. However, this was partially thanks to the fact that they didn't go through the translation process nearly as many times as the bible did. And don't forget the countless years most of the biblical teachings of the Old Testament went through as complete oral traditions, making it impossible to definitively say what the original teachings were actually like.

Nope. That is just unbelief talking. Moses met with Jesus on the mountain, as did Elijah and the apostles were there to observe. The writings that came down were sealed by Jesus as fine, thank you very much. Right from the mouth of God. Jesus also gave honorable mench to Daniel, and referred to other prophets. It's in the bag.




.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Nope. That is just unbelief talking. Moses met with Jesus on the mountain, as did Elijah and the apostles were there to observe. The writings that came down were sealed by Jesus as fine, thank you very much. Right from the mouth of God. Jesus also gave honorable mench to Daniel, and referred to other prophets. It's in the bag.


.

-_- someone doesn't understand how rare books and literacy were in the past. To write a bible by hand word for word would take years, many churches even by the Middle Ages would have but 1 bible to share for the whole town, and we are talking about more than a thousand years prior to that for when the original biblical texts were written. Even if somehow each account was written as it happened, it still would have been spread primarily through oral tradition, otherwise the religion wouldn't have spread fast enough to match how fast it historically moved. In addition, like I said, books wear out, and never forget translation issues. And even if Moses himself wrote accounts of what happened to him as they were happening, he would have still had to summarize, would have forgotten details, because any human author is going to have human limitations.

 

[dad]

-_- someone doesn't understand how rare books and literacy were in the past. To write a bible by hand word for word would take years, many churches even by the Middle Ages would have but 1 bible to share for the whole town, and we are talking about more than a thousand years prior to that for when the original biblical texts were written. Even if somehow each account was written as it happened, it still would have been spread primarily through oral tradition, otherwise the religion wouldn't have spread fast enough to match how fast it historically moved. In addition, like I said, books wear out, and never forget translation issues. And even if Moses himself wrote accounts of what happened to him as they were happening, he would have still had to summarize, would have forgotten details, because any human author is going to have human limitations.

"
The following detail of this process is extremely interesting:
“They knew it would be easy to make a mistake in copying a new transcript, so they developed elaborate and meticulous rules for transcribing. They decreed that:

• When a person was making a new text, he had to copy the original page with such exactness that the number of words on a page could not be changed.

• If the original page had 288 words, then the page being copied had to have the same 288 words.

• Each line on a new page had to be the exact same as the line on the old page. If the first line on the original page had nine words, the first line on the copy page had to have nine words.

• After a page was copied, the number of letters on that page was counted and compared with the original.

• After a page was copied, someone would check to see what the middle letter was on the copy and the original.

• A synagogue roll must be written on the skins of clean animals, the length of each column must not extend less than 48 or more than 80 lines; the breadth must consist of 30 letters.

• No word or letter, not even a yod, must be written from memory… Between every consonant the space of a hair or thread must intervene, between every book three lines.

• Besides this the copyist must sit in full Jewish dress, and wash his whole body”(Hebrew Text of the Old Testament, Davidson).

• The scribes were not allowed to copy sentence for sentence or even word for word.They had to copy letter for letter.

• After a page was copied and checked by another, still a third person would check to see what the middle word was on the page.

• Then, when the whole book was finished, another would count the phrases. This process was so accurate they could pinpoint the exact middle of a book simply by letter count and would check the verse at that point as one of the methods of confirmation.

• If a single error was found, the entire manuscript was destroyed to ensure that it could never be used as a master copy in the future.

These are just a few examples of the great detail that went into ensuring the accuracy of the Scriptures.”


Scribal Tradition | Christian Evidences Ministries

 

[PsychoSarah]

"
The following detail of this process is extremely interesting:
“They knew it would be easy to make a mistake in copying a new transcript, so they developed elaborate and meticulous rules for transcribing. They decreed that:

• When a person was making a new text, he had to copy the original page with such exactness that the number of words on a page could not be changed.

• If the original page had 288 words, then the page being copied had to have the same 288 words.

• Each line on a new page had to be the exact same as the line on the old page. If the first line on the original page had nine words, the first line on the copy page had to have nine words.

• After a page was copied, the number of letters on that page was counted and compared with the original.

• After a page was copied, someone would check to see what the middle letter was on the copy and the original.

• A synagogue roll must be written on the skins of clean animals, the length of each column must not extend less than 48 or more than 80 lines; the breadth must consist of 30 letters.

• No word or letter, not even a yod, must be written from memory… Between every consonant the space of a hair or thread must intervene, between every book three lines.

• Besides this the copyist must sit in full Jewish dress, and wash his whole body”(Hebrew Text of the Old Testament, Davidson).

• The scribes were not allowed to copy sentence for sentence or even word for word.They had to copy letter for letter.

• After a page was copied and checked by another, still a third person would check to see what the middle word was on the page.

• Then, when the whole book was finished, another would count the phrases. This process was so accurate they could pinpoint the exact middle of a book simply by letter count and would check the verse at that point as one of the methods of confirmation.

• If a single error was found, the entire manuscript was destroyed to ensure that it could never be used as a master copy in the future.

These are just a few examples of the great detail that went into ensuring the accuracy of the Scriptures.”


Scribal Tradition | Christian Evidences Ministries

This doesn't help with issues in translation error it all, in fact some of these can unintentionally make it worse (for concepts that require more words to be properly expressed in one language than another, as an example). Also, these regulations wouldn't have existed when these texts were first being written down.