If a Muslim Dies Saving Christians, Are they a "Christian Martyr"?

[GoingByzantine]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways, accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

 

[football5680]

They cannot be considered Christian Martyr's because they did not die for their belief in Jesus. The original meaning of the word Martyr is witness and in this scenario they are not a witness showing their belief in Christianity.

We should show them respect and hope that God will judge them favorably.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways is accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

Interesting to consider - as I'm reminded of others like King Cyrus in Isaiah 42. He was never deemed to be an Israelite or following the God of Israel and yet he was known to be "God's Anointed" in the capacity he was used to serve and save the Jewish people. In Israel, there were those who were thankful for the People of Israel/the area they resided and yet they may've not been devoted to serving the Lord - much in the same way that you had others like King Darius with Daniel or King Cyrus who helped the Jewish people return home in addition to being beloved by their subjects for the ways they treated others/allowed a significant deal of multiculturalism and supported a policy of multi-religious views to flourish.. and was well known for being "The Lord's Anointed One"/"God's Servant"/ "God's Shepherd" ( Isaiah 45:1-3 /Isaiah 44:27-28 (- more shared here in #1)according to Isaiah....or King Hiram who helped Solomon in His kingdom (1 Kings 9:13 2 Samuel 5 /1 Kings 5 /2 Chronicles 2 /2 Chronicles 2:10-12 ).

The same dynamic of being impacted greatly by the Lord and used (even when not fully aware of who He is) is also noted in the story of Naaman the Syrian (from the nation of Aram where Syria is at) - from 2 Kings 5 whom Christ referenced later on when it came to the people he chose to interact with and saying what it meant to follow the Lord:

Luke 4:18

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth

16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,[j]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”[k]
​

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth. And they said, “Is this not Joseph’s son?”


23 He said to them, “You will surely say this proverb to Me, ‘Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we have heard done in Capernaum,[l] do also here in Your country.’” 24 Then He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, no prophet is accepted in his own country. 25 But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land; 26 but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath,[m] in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.”


Surprises and Disappointments-
​

2 Kings 5:1-22
15 Then Naaman and all his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.”

16 The prophet answered, “As surely as the Lord lives, whom I serve, I will not accept a thing.” And even though Naaman urged him, he refused.

17 “If you will not,” said Naaman, “please let me, your servant, be given as much earth as a pair of mules can carry, for your servant will never again make burnt offerings and sacrifices to any other god but the Lord. 18 But may the Lord forgive your servant for this one thing: When my master enters the temple of Rimmon to bow down and he is leaning on my arm and I have to bow there also—when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the Lord forgive your servant for this.”
19 “Go in peace,” Elisha said.
​

Naaman - under the impression that Israel's God can only be worshipped in the land of Israel/sacred territory - asked for dirt since it was necessary to create a "miniature Israel" in Syria - and of course, the question of how God could be worshiped in a foreign land became a serious one for Israel during the exile (Psalm 137:4)....but the reality of the matter is that actions were done symbolically because of what they symbolized. Two mules' burden of earth— Dirt with which to make an altar (Ex 20:24) Someone could have easily claimed Naaman wanted to worship dirt - but that was not his intention. He simply knew where he was going back to and how he'd basically be alone - but still wanted some level of access...


But at the end of the day, there's nothing saying that Naaman ever came to a full realization of who God was in all levels - yet he was impacted by the Lord and used.


And we have an extensive history of others who were not fully aware of who God was and yet they were used greatly to impact others for the Gospel. I don't see anywhere in scripture where the Lord said that those who are not saved will not be honored by the Lord if they do actions on behalf of the saints since it seems in Matthew 25 that you'll see MANY surprised when they are told "When I was naked, you clothed me....when I was hungry, you fed me..." by Jesus. He made plain whatever is done to the least of these, brethren, it was done to Him.

So who's really to say that the Muslims who give their lives to protect their brethren are somehow not going to be considered martyrs.

 

[Rhamiel]

um......
while I am grateful for the brave and kind muslims who help Christians in these turbulent times, I think calling them martyrs goes a bit too far

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways is accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

Some of what you note is interesting when it comes to seeing how the Early Church actually viewed Islam. Specifically, a lot of folks encounter Islam on a very surface level alone, not even aware of how others such as St. John of Damascus and other great Christian scholars of the Early Church interacted with Islam (when Islam in its beginning stages was called “the heresy of the Ishmaelites - more in St. Peter's List: Islam as a Christian Heresy: 8 Quotes from St. John Damascene A.D. 749 and The Church in the Shadow of the Mosque: Christians and Muslims in the World ... - Sidney H. Griffith - Google Books). When considering the reality that Islam is really a sect of Christianity - aberrational - then it places things within the camp of seeing Muslims in the same way that one sees heterodox believers. And for me, when seeing what occurred within the history of the Early Church, it was often the case that there were others who were deemed "herectics" and yet they were saints at differing points.

It seems more than possible, IMHO, for Muslims to be "Christian Martyrs" for the Gospel - and as said before, it all goes back to
Matthew 25 which seems to point out that you'll see MANY surprised when they are told "When I was naked, you clothed me....when I was hungry, you fed me..." by Jesus. He made plain whatever is done to the least of these, brethren, it was done to Him.

I think we should take seriously the sacrifices other Muslims have taken when other Christians have been protected by them even if those Muslims were killed by others - in the SAME way that Christians in the U.S South were harmed by others advocating a false form of Christianity that condoned slavery/kidnapping and terrorism against Blacks and made it seem like Black Christians were inferior to Whites. When I consider the dynamic of Muslims being martyrs for Christ, I am reminded of what happened in Egypt....how The Coptic Orthodox Pope, HH Tawadrous II (As said in anticipation for the attacks ) made a statement about the attacks on churches, saying that “this had been expected and, as Egyptians and Christians, we are considering our church buildings as a sacrifice to be made for our beloved Egypt”. and that some Muslims went to protect churches and, in return, many Christians then sent messages to their fellow Muslim citizens saying, “buildings can be rebuilt again, but you are priceless, so stay safe, and don't worry about the churches”. ...but for the many who have formed walls to protect Christians, that cannot be minimized. I will never forget what occurred when hand in hand as many as 200-300 people formed a human chain outside the St Anthony’s Church adjacent to the District Police Lines at the Empress Road, in a show of solidarity with the victims of the Peshawar church attack two weeks earlier, which resulted in over a 100 deaths....and many others besides that:

• The Muslim who gave up his life for Mosul’s Christians - Vatican Insider

• “Muslims protecting Christians in Egypt during mass”

 

[Targaryen]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways is accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

I would call the Muslim that died to save christian lives, a Martyr of Faith and Friend of God but not a Christian martyr only in the sense that the Muslim was not a practising Christian.

 

[SolomonVII]

I agree with the Melkite. Dying for Christians is dying for Christ."Whatsoever you do for the least of my brother,...."

 

[Lion King]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways, accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

That's an interesting question. Personally, I would like to think that these Muslims will be admitted into the Kingdom of God when it comes, since their actions have shown that they believe in God.

Remember, love covers a multitude of sins.

“These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends." John 15:11-13


____

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 1 John 3:16

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I agree with the Melkite. Dying for Christians is dying for Christ."Whatsoever you do for the least of my brother,...."

This isn't as cut and dry as some like to make it. I'm thinking you have made a very good point. Without a doubt, they are showing the greatest love of all.
This is far greater than simple compassion.
So let's see, they believe in Christ as a man. They believe He was born of a Virgin. They express the greatest love of all. I can't call them converts but something is going on within them. God's hand is in this somehow.

 

[graceandpeace]

"Greater love have no man than this..."

I hope & trust in God's mercy.

 

[Kristos]

If a Christian saves a Muslim does that them a Muslim Martyr?

I think the answer has to be no. As already stated, the word martyr simply means witness and was commonly associated with those who witnessed to their faith even unto death. A Christian who shows love and compassion is witnessing to Christ - not to the beliefs of those they are helping. Even an atheist could show love and compassion, but what are they witnessing to? Certainly not God. Not consciously anyway.

 

[South Bound]

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways, accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

Not even remotely Biblical.

 

[South Bound]

I would call the Muslim that died to save christian lives, a Martyr of Faith and Friend of God but not a Christian martyr only in the sense that the Muslim was not a practising Christian.

How can the Muslim be a friend of God, when the Bible says he's at enmity with God and that friendship with God comes only through Christ?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

If a Christian saves a Muslim does that them a Muslim Martyr?

I think the answer has to be no. As already stated, the word martyr simply means witness and was commonly associated with those who witnessed to their faith even unto death. A Christian who shows love and compassion is witnessing to Christ - not to the beliefs of those they are helping. Even an atheist could show love and compassion, but what are they witnessing to? Certainly not God. Not consciously anyway.

I do agree but that last sentence is a bit......well you know as you wrote it. Seems God can use who He wills. I agree it doesn't make one a Christian but it's a step in the right direction. A sort of subconscious "Yes Lord".

This is a good thread. We need more like it.

 

[Kristos]

I do agree but that last sentence is a bit......well you know as you wrote it. Seems God can use who He wills. I agree it doesn't make one a Christian but it's a step in the right direction. A sort of subconscious "Yes Lord".

This is a good thread. We need more like it.

I guess what I meant is that (according to Christianity) we are all created in the image and likeness of God - so I think it is possible to witness to that fact without consciously acknowledging it.

 

[Albion]

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways, accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

I don't think that it does amount to accepting Christ in any way. It represents taking a stand for what's right, moral, or ethical, that's all. We don't suppose that other religions are devoid of such concepts.

 

[RDKirk]

So who's really to say that the Muslims who give their lives to protect their brethren are somehow not going to be considered martyrs.

I would not call them "martyrs" because as has been mentioned, that word for Christians has the specific meaning of giving one's life directly for the sake of giving witness to the gospel.

But I do recognize your point, and I would say that Paul recognized it as well when he spoke of the "covenant of one" between God and a person who was not part of an earthly body of believers and did not have access to revealed knowledge of God.

C.S. Lewis makes that point in the final book of his Chronicles of Narnia, "The Last Battle." That book is an unabashed tale of End Times apostasy and judgment.

In it, a prince of the Calormen--the long-time foes of Aslan--had been taught from childhood that his god Tash was the good, noble god and that Aslan was the evil, base god. When told to commit evil acts in the name of Tash, he refuses--he cannot believe a good god would command evil--and is imprisoned.

Toward the end of the story when Aslan is judging the faithful from the unfaithful, Aslan appears in prison to the Calormen prince. Immediately at the sight of Aslan, the prince realizes that everything he had been taught about Aslan had been a lie. He throws himself down at Aslan's feet and professes that he deserves nothing better than death under the lion's paw.

But surprisingly, Aslan tells him, in effect, "It was always me you served" and the Calormen prince winds up--to the surprise of everyone else--in the New Narnia with the faithful.

I see hints in scripture--and the story of Naamen is one of them--that something like that is within the plan of God.

But that does not give us who have the gospel a "pass" to pause in the mission we're given to make disciples in every nation. "Membership has its benefits," Christ wants as many as possible to have that benefit. We have been given a mission to fulfull, and it's not our call to decide whether it's necessary in any given case.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The conflict in the Middle East has me thinking about martyrdom. When I went to a Melkite Church, the parish priest mentioned that some Muslim Imams were giving their lives to protect Christians against extremists. He said that they could be considered "martyrs" that we as Christians should respect.

That got me thinking, if a Muslim dies to protect Christians, do they have a chance at salvation? I would say that it is possible, but only God could be the judge. Dying to save Christians, is in many ways, accepting Christ through blood. Thoughts?

BTW...It would be helpful if we could get many brethren on GT to adopt a "nun" symbol in your signature or avatar, to show solidarity with the Christians being persecuted as we speak by extremists abroad.

No. Not unless you want to redefine what the word martyr means. Martyrdom is dying for your faith. Maybe they're muslims martyrs, because they died for their faith which says killing chrisitians is not ok.

 

[squint]

I don't think that it does amount to accepting Christ in any way. It represents taking a stand for what's right, moral, or ethical, that's all. We don't suppose that other religions are devoid of such concepts.

I've had some deeply spiritual dialog with, ahem, Muslims.

They have some excellent baseline concepts about God, law and sin. More than enough to initiate excellent dialog.

When they look at 'our' religious freedom here and what it has produced, obviously even we are appalled are we not?

It's hard not to be ashamed as a christian of what this country has produced and exports to the world.

Oh, yeah, throw in some good too, but that's not the point. We are just as extremist here in the direction of sinning free for all. I don't blame them for 'not wanting' that.

 

[RDKirk]

I've had some deeply spiritual dialog with, ahem, Muslims.

They have some excellent baseline concepts about God, law and sin. More than enough to initiate excellent dialog.

I have a friend who had spent 12 years in Morocco as an "undercover" missionary. He had relatively excellent success with Muslims who observed his Christian behavior and quietly came to him asking, "Tell us about Jesus."

He didn't hit them with established doctrine and theology. He merely sat with them and read the gospels, then Acts, then Romans, answering questions as they were asked. This, of course, usually took months.

But by the end of Romans he'd simply ask, "Do you believe what you've read and what we've discussed?"

He reports that 100% of the Muslims who had stuck with him that far said, "Yes, I believe. I want to be baptized."