Promise of a Gentile Messiah

[Laureate]

Besides, eating the Passover did not constitute the Salvation back in Egypt, it was the blood of the lamb placed on the door.

 

[Laureate]

Solomon gave us the conclusion: keep the Torah, focus on your lifestyle and do Mitzvot (Eccl. 12:13)."

Ahhh! Solomon the son of a Hitite woman who (according to Law) should have been stoned to death (for her adultry) before he was ever born; Is not he why 10 parts of the Kingdom was stripped from Y'huda, and how the children of Israel became two Kingdoms? And we lift up his name because....?

Though it was drawn from the Voice of many waters, it is Not the Law of Moshe, nor did Solomon place Wisdom upon his own lips; thus Solomon concluded Baal (lit.Nothing), and ended up worshiping the same;

"...and leave the secret, the invisible or theoretical things to the secret realm, invisible realm or realm of theory (Deut. 29:29)."

Really? That is how you measure Deuteronomy 29:29?

Is not the Spirit invisible to the naked eye? So we should what? Leave Spiritual matters unto Spiritual beings, Right?

"The Secret things belong unto YHWH our Elohey, but those things which are Revealed belong unto US and to our children For Ever, that We may Perform all the words of this Law." [Deuteronomy 29:29]

According to this passage, without the revelation of the Secret things there is something (like ignorance) standing in the way hindering one's ability to perform the Law; yet we know that Solomon did possess Wisdom, for...

"It is the glory of Elohym to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." [Proverbs 25:2]

The New Covenant restores our Divine status as children of Elohym; therefore, we the many members of H'Meshiach are also anointed kings;

As Kings we are instructed to keep our own hand written copies of the scriptures as a Scribe, and seek out the hidden things!

"And it shall be, when he sits upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests of Levi:

And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to Revere YHWH his Elohey, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:

That his heart be not lifted up above his brothers, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel." [Deuteronomy 17:18-20

"...Therefore every Scribe which is instructed unto the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his Theasarus-treasure things New, and Old." [Matthew 13:52]

"For we speak the Wisdom of Elohym in a Mystery, even the Hidden Wisdom, which Elohym ordained before the world unto our glory:" [1st Corinthians 2:7]

 

[Laureate]

Are you seeking to become one of the 144000....Brother laureate?....

I do seek to not lose the seat I have already secured...

...Can one seek to be chosen?...

Sure! Happens all the time, every day even, it is a matter of Qualifying and not losing one's position;

When the Chief Shepherd appears i.e., The Teacher aka the Spirit of Truth aka the Father who shall come in the Son's name...

He will bid many to the wedding of his son, who all have seats with their name on them, however many who will be invited will decline from their invitation;

At which time it becomes a matter of first come first serve, those who have their wedding garments and are able to learn a particular song, etc. Qualify to sit in the seat of the Elect:

The 144,000 is a quota met, the 1000yr reign can not begin without them:

...was David chosen because he seek the Lord?...was Saul chosen because he persecuted the early church?

David was chosen when Saul was rejected, Saul lost his seat to one who was better than himself;

As for Paul-Saul, Yes! He was chosen to replace the Most Honorable among the S(t)even, a case of Divine irony and just recompense, i.e., You take out our most valuable player and we will draft yours;

I thought it was hashem call....and his alone?

Amen, He has built an arena drawn out the boundaries, explained the object of the game and has established all of the rules, did I somehow imply other wise?

 

[Laureate]

...I am not sure what all you mean in the above, however the right of the nation of Israel is a double portion, as firstborn. Having a share in BOTH covenants of promise. Concerning this world and this life, and the next world and the next life...

An excellent, and commendable analysis, to include all that I did not quote;

Our guest asked if the sacrifice of Isaac was for the sake of Abvraham or for the World, you and Visionary both said neither, pointing out some of the important details of the event;

My reply to the question was, Yes! as in both for Abvraham, and the World; My point being, the calling of Abvraham is not an isolated event from Elohym('s) plan to Reconcile the World:

I see each letter of Torah as a contribiting pixel, two or three pixels form the joint color of a word, two or three joint-color-words combined produce a shape-sentence;

Even though the word "No!" phonetically contains only 3 pixels it can serve as a complete sentence when it is used in a context where it lends a contributive meaning;

example:
Q; Do you have any money on
you now?

A; No!

Mind you, in this context, the word No! is not a complete sentence until we include (i.e., naturally assume) the omitted portion of thought that is provided in the context i.e., No (I do not have any money on me now)!

This phenomena (call it what you like) exist on every plane of written and oral communication, and in every language, whether it be found in a sentence, verse, paragraph, chapter, or story;

A (modern) Mosaic picture is a Big (complete) picture made up of smaller (complete) pictures that serve as pixels for the Bigger picture;

I say all this to show that, you and Visionary both supplied good responses as it pertains to the smaller complete picture, yet the inquery of our guest was directed toward the bigger picture to which the smaller also pertains;

We all did good in recognizing something fishy about the question, it bore the same odor that was present when the serpent interrogated the woman in the garden;

He caught someone off guard though, for someone pointed out that Isaac was not sacrificed, yet we know that Elohym examnes the inclinations and intent of the heart and judges the the imaginations found therein;

He does not judge the outward performance to which He alone can hand one over to, a mystery yet for many, and a stumbling block as well, I get the bruises to prove it, give praise!

 

[Laureate]

Doubled post deleted

 

[agua]

.

 

[Laureate]

Which covenant promises David's throne? What does Sinai say or establish concerning any future king? Does Sinai promise the throne of David?

Pardon the delay, I actually answered these questions as promptly as I could, it was just much too long to submit, I'm sure you understand; let me try again but taking them one at a time;

Which covenant promises David's throne?...

Perhaps an easier question for me to answer would be, Which Covenant of Elohym does'nt pertain to David, or his throne?

"This is my [David, lit.] 'Beloved' Son in whom I am very pleased with, Listen Closely to him!"

"Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: yet it is me whom they testify of." [John 5:39]

The scriptures are all about the Kingdom, hmmm, did I just contradict scripture, or am I suggesting that the Son is also the Kingdom who Came to Comfort us as was promised in Isaiah?

"Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Who has heard of such a thing? who has seen such a thing? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and you shall be comforted by Yerusalem." [Isaiah 66:7-8, & 13]

As King of kings every birthright Covenant would apply to him, and as the Chief shepherd every priestly Covenant would apply to him as well;

Yet when and wheresoever any aspect of any Covenant proves to be non applicable, then those aspects will naturally not apply;

The surface of the Earth is David's Throne and jurisdiction as was prescribed for Adam in Genesis; otherwise, what secures the promise of Davids throne boils down to his Complete Love for, and Reliance on YHWH Elohym and His Discretion;

Yet the Eternal Covenant that promises the Guaranteed Mercies of David and his throne is mentioned in the following verses:

"Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. Also YHWH tells you that he will make you an house.

And when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, which shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his Kingdom for ever.

I will be His Father, and he shall be My Son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before you.

And your house and your Kingdom shall be established for ever before you: your throne shall be established for ever." [2nd Samual 7:10-16]

Elohym recompensed, and blessed David according to David's own inclinations to be Merciful;

The Mercy of Elohym is a part of His Grace (being an act that is not obligatory), yet with David Elohym has made an agreement-Covenant promising to be Merciful, and less wrathful as He was known to be;

Though Mercy will always be accompanied by Grace, with David however Mercy will no longer be (dependant on) a Graceful option with Elohym, it is now a promise, wherefore it is written...

"Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an Everlasting Covenant with you, even the Gauranteed Mercies of David." [Isaiah 55:3]

 

[Laureate]

.

Don't be embarassed, for the query that exist behind your retracted question is worthy to address, i.e. What's up with that? Kinda makes someone feel left out of the loop doesn't it?

Yet listen closely to what it is Y'shua is saying, for he did not come for the Jews who considered themselves saved, Samaratains, or Gentiles, no nor any other name under the sun other than the lost sheep of Israel, so what does this mean?

It appears here, he only came for Ephraim and those who were counted with him aka the 10 Lost tribes bka Israel, yet he specified 'Lost' not '10';

The children of Yacob is reckoned by bloodline, but the sons of Israel are reckoned by faith and righteousness, for it was not a human who gave Yacob the name Israel, it was Elohym who gave him the name, and then as a nation told him that his occupation was to be priestly;

According to scriptural principles, if One's faith and reasoning is a by product of Israel, then you are counted as Israel, yet if an Israeli you be by faith then you are a member of the flock, and not just a goat hanging out with us, for we have a shepherd, and we follow both his voice, and instructions, which one must first learn to recognize and grow accustomed to before one can actually willfully follow;

Our faith is a path at the end of which we acquire the truth of the Kingdom of Elohym, those who hold that truth without any doubt whatsoever attain all the promises offered to the 7 congregations mentioned in Revelations (who 'Overcome'), and then some;

So the question everyone must ask them self, and or be prepared to answer is, Are you, or are you not of Israel? For everyone who acknowledges that they belong to the King of kings and conduct themselves accordingly, they are those who recognize his voice and follow his instruction, not their own imagination, nor the the voice of another;

 

[agua]

Don't be embarassed, for the query that exist behind your retracted question is worthy to address, i.e. What's up with that? Kinda makes someone feel left out of the loop doesn't it?

Yet listen closely to what it is Y'shua is saying, for he did not come for the Jews who considered themselves saved, Samaratains, or Gentiles, no nor any other name under the sun other than the lost sheep of Israel, so what does this mean?

It appears here, he only came for Ephraim and those who were counted with him aka the 10 Lost tribes bka Israel, yet he specified 'Lost' not '10';

The children of Yacob is reckoned by bloodline, but the sons of Israel are reckoned by faith and righteousness, for it was not a human who gave Yacob the name Israel, it was Elohym who gave him the name, and then as a nation told him that his occupation was to be priestly;

According to scriptural principles, if One's faith and reasoning is a by product of Israel, then you are counted as Israel, yet if an Israeli you be by faith then you are a member of the flock, and not just a goat hanging out with us, for we have a shepherd, and we follow both his voice, and instructions, which one must first learn to recognize and grow accustomed to before one can actually willfully follow;

Our faith is a path at the end of which we acquire the truth of the Kingdom of Elohym, those who hold that truth without any doubt whatsoever attain all the promises offered to the 7 congregations mentioned in Revelations (who 'Overcome'), and then some;

So the question everyone must ask them self, and or be prepared to answer is, Are you, or are you not of Israel? For everyone who acknowledges that they belong to the King of kings and conduct themselves accordingly, they are those who recognize his voice and follow his instruction, not their own imagination, nor the the voice of another;

I'm not embarrassed but deleted the question because I couldn't find your original comment I quoted.

Can you post the scripture that says Jesus came only to save the Israelite ? I get what you're saying but at this stage I don't see it in scripture and I'd like to see your line of reasoning from the scriptures.

 

[Laureate]

I'm not embarrassed but deleted the question because I couldn't find your original comment I quoted.

Can you post the scripture that says Jesus came only to save the Israelite ? I get what you're saying but at this stage I don't see it in scripture and I'd like to see your line of reasoning from the scriptures.

Excellent point! But for starters, it was annier's post that you tagged and made your inquery from;

"I (Y'shua lit. the Salvation of YHWH) am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel." [Matthew 15:24]

 

[Laureate]

His point being directed to the entire world is, you are either Israel or you are not!

Our bloodline from Adam is already Royal, therfore it is not a matter of bloodline, but a matter of making a choice;

 

[agua]

Excellent point! But for starters, it was annier's post that you tagged and made your inquery from;

"I (Y'shua lit. the Salvation of YHWH) am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel." [Matthew 15:24]

Ah ok ta that explains why I couldn't find it in your post

His point being directed to the entire world is, you are either Israel or you are not!

No scripture support = no interest from me sorry. Carry on.

 

[Laureate]

Ah ok ta that explains why I couldn't find it in your post



No scripture support = no interest from me sorry. Carry on.

Really, do you think you know your scriptures that well? I missed the part where you asked for scriptural support, I often speak a paraphrase of scripture or provide a summary of it's sum, to lure those who fail to make the connection; most of us are familiar with the many translations but comprehension falls on every plane;

You bit the hook on annier's line, and asked for scriptural support, thinking you were going to correct him, but got corrected instead, count it as love, and let the prideful burn in his pride, yet you scoff at the one who reeled you in, as if he was not also able to do the same again;

 

[agua]

Really, do you think you know your scriptures that well? I missed the part where you asked for scriptural support, I often speak a paraphrase of scripture or provide a summary of it's sum, to lure those who fail to make the connection; most of us are familiar with the many translations but comprehension falls on every plane;

You bit the hook on annier's line, and asked for scriptural support, thinking you were going to correct him, but got corrected instead, count it as love, and let the prideful burn in his pride, yet you scoff at the one who reeled you in, as if he was not also able to do the same again;

Here ya go from post #209 in reply to your post # 208 (?)

"Can you post the scripture that says Jesus came only to save the Israelite ? I get what you're saying but at this stage I don't see it in scripture and I'd like to see your line of reasoning from the scriptures."

No worries if you can't present scripture to support your line of reasoning we can always speculate extra bible for fun without taking it seriously but I've seen several attempts to suggest only only Israel is saved including British Israelism without decent scripture support. Do you have something more convincing ?

 

[pat34lee]

No worries if you can't present scripture to support your line of reasoning we can always speculate extra bible for fun without taking it seriously but I've seen several attempts to suggest only only Israel is saved including British Israelism without decent scripture support. Do you have something more convincing ?

You are correct. While Yeshua's ministry was only to the lost sheep of Israel, that is not the case with the apostles after his death and resurrection. Gentiles are now able to be saved, and they are grafted into Israel.

 

[agua]

You are correct. While Yeshua's ministry was only to the lost sheep of Israel, that is not the case with the apostles after his death and resurrection. Gentiles are now able to be saved, and they are grafted into Israel.

Kinda like these people.

Rom 9:25-26 KJV As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. (26) And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Hos 2:21-23 KJV And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; (22) And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. (23) And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

 

[Laureate]

Here ya go from post #209 in reply to your post # 208 (?)

"Can you post the scripture that says Jesus came only to save the Israelite ? I get what you're saying but at this stage I don't see it in scripture and I'd like to see your line of reasoning from the scriptures."

No worries if you can't present scripture to support your line of reasoning we can always speculate extra bible for fun without taking it seriously but I've seen several attempts to suggest only only Israel is saved including British Israelism without decent scripture support. Do you have something more convincing ?

Wow! The Salvation of YHWH comes and says, "I am not sent..." how come this does not equal 'Salvation was not sent...." to you?

Because you do not believe you are one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Wow! Disbelief is spooky! You are letting what you do not believe affect what it is you do believe, when your faith should be founded on belief wirhout doubt, not belief based in part on disbelief of anything, that self defeats the whole faith concept;

I see your dilemma, many are trying to claim some kind of exclusive right to Salvation, and I agree with you that is non sense, yet you allow their non sense to not accept something which the Salvation of YHWH clearly spoke;

Many verses are difficult to accept until one is able to reconcile it with other scriptural verses, but before the Spirit can guide one to reconcile a verse they must first believe the verse is true, exercising no doubt and avoiding speculation, then with the benefit of the doubt (removed) the Spirit can begin to reconcile/explain how and why the verse is true guiding one through the scriptures all the while;

 

[agua]

Wow! The Salvation of YHWH comes and says, "I am not sent..." how come this does not equal 'Salvation was not sent...." to you?

Because you do not believe you are one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Wow! Disbelief is spooky! You are letting what you do not believe affect what it is you do believe, when your faith should be founded on belief wirhout doubt, not belief based in part on disbelief of anything, that self defeats the whole faith concept;

I see your dilemma, many are trying to claim some kind of exclusive right to Salvation, and I agree with you that is non sense, yet you allow their non sense to not accept something which the Salvation of YHWH clearly spoke;

Many verses are difficult to accept until one is able to reconcile it with other scriptural verses, but before the Spirit can guide one to reconcile a verse they must first believe the verse is true, exercising no doubt and avoiding speculation, then with the benefit of the doubt (removed) the Spirit can begin to reconcile/explain how and why the verse is true guiding one through the scriptures all the while;

Ok so far the only scripture ( I think ) you're basing your argument on is Matthew 15 ?

Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

What do you make of John 10 ?

Joh 10:16 KJV And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I'd appreciate less of your words and some more scripture if that's ok. Or maybe point -scripture point- scripture etc etc .

 

[Laureate]

Kinda like these people.

Rom 9:25-26 KJV As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. (26) And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Hos 2:21-23 KJV And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; (22) And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. (23) And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Correct, and beautiful, yet the whole time He is speaking to His people Israel who was scattered abroad, and circumstantially became as those who were not His own, when he regathers the same He restores the title my people unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but you somehow feel these words exclude someone on earth, and I say, Yup! Only those who do not believe!

 

[agua]

Correct, and beautiful, yet the whole time He is speaking to His people Israel who was scattered abroad, and circumstantially became as those who were not His own, when he regathers the same He restores the title my people unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, but you somehow feel these words exclude someone on earth, and I say, Yup! Only those who do not believe!

Ah ok maybe we're getting somewhere. Are you saying Gentile believers become Israelite ? This is also incorrect but might explain what you mean.