Sabbath was made for man

[Gibs]

What are you calling worshipping spirit and truth?

It is not worship Spirit and Truth, but IN Spirit and in Truth as He states it MUST be!

 

[from scratch]

It is not worship Spirit and Truth, but IN Spirit and in Truth as He states it MUST be!

Typo has been corrected. Here's what I meant to post and amended to say -

What are you calling worshipping in spirit and truth?

Thanks for catching this obvious error on my part.

 

[from scratch]

When you devote your posts to error, do you think this encourages others to approve of your social gathering?

BTW, I saw that you contributed a post to the traditional Adventist congregational forum. According to the rules governing that subforum, only Adventists are allowed to participate on it. You may as well drop the pretense.

I've not been there in while. Is he really posting there as though he was one? I must now go check his posts there. Thanks for the tip. It doesn't change anything for me though.

 

[Gibs]

Typo has been corrected. Here's what I meant to post and amended to say -

What are you calling worshipping in spirit and truth?

Thanks for catching this obvious error on my part.

He is Spirit and we come by spirit and join in worship in spirit and in Truth.

Church only is had when the worship is in Truth, He says it MUST be!

 

[Gibs]

VictorC,

SDAdvemtism was the best of the reform structures of men. The further down the road in time it went the more error there was that came in.

I can't be of any denomination of this world as only Christ can and did build His Church and guaranteed us it would not fall. All just need to come and get in it.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[VictorC]

VictorC,

SDAdvemtism was the best of the reform structures of men. The further down the road in time it went the more error there was that came in.

I can't be of any denomination of this world as only Christ can and did build His Church and guaranteed us it would not fall. All just need to come and get in it.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Gibs, it follows that your lack of Biblical literacy hampers your ability to evaluate the Seventh-day Adventist "church", and you have no idea that behind the scenes the administration of this forum have mixed opinions regarding Adventism's acceptance within the Christian community. Some appeal to how Adventists verbalize acceptance of the Nicene creed CF uses as their litmus test, while in practice I have not seen posts consistently produced by any SDA member that are compliant with that creed.

I coined the term 'Pen of Liability' to refer to Ellen White's writings, as quotes showing her anti-Christian soteriology, failed prophecies, and just plain nonsense are a liability to adherents of the SDA "church". The SDA "church" isn't a denomination according to the Fundamental Beliefs published by the GC, and Adventism is openly regarded as a cult that is far away from Christ's church. This has been a topic of discussion in the past:

"The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith was the declaration, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed". (Daniel 8:14)

You can have no clearer statement of Seventh Day Adventism's anti-Christian cult status.

Actually, SDA Fundamental Belief # 24 shows how deeply their Sanctuary Doctrine permeates their theology:

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.​

Their need to apologize for a non-event in 1844 postulates that Christ's atonement isn't complete; they demand a second phase contrary to the Gospel's bold proclamation that His propitiation was sufficient to justify and reconcile us before a Holy God.

Refer to that Fundamental Belief again.
The Gospel declares how God saves man.
Adventism's message is to vindicate God.
That's a major reversal one can't ignore.

That is precisely why the SDA Church in my mind is one of the most dangerous anti-Christian cults.

Dr. Walter Martin shared this view.

For over a century Adventism has borne a stigma of being called a non-Christian cult system.

Dr. Martin concluded a variance to the historical stigma Adventism earned for itself, when he allowed himself to acknowledge the General Council's 1957 publication 'Questions on Doctrine' to reflect the SDA church's claim to be changing to embrace the basic tenets of Christianity. However, this publication fell out of print and was considered a heresy within Adventism, showing that the General Council resorted to deceit to gain Martin's favor. This was noted by David Cloud in 1999:

The truth is that Seventh-Day Adventism today does not differ in any significant doctrinal way from the Seventh-Day Adventism of Ellen White's day, except that it presents its doctrines in a more subtle manner today. If the Seventh-day Adventist leaders were to change their major distinctive doctrines as outlined by Ellen White, they would be denying their prophetess and pulling the pillars from under themselves. The Adventist Church admits this in the following statement from one of their recent publications:

• "Great lines of truth were gradually unfolding before them [Ellen White and early Adventist leaders]. Now the time had come for the convergence of these truths into one body of doctrine. This was brought about in 1848, through a series of Sabbath conferences. Five in all were held. At the earlier of these, the doctrines were clarified and bound together as a unity of truth; the later conferences served largely as teaching and unifying agencies.
• "A careful study of documents of the time reveals what was denominated 'present truth' in this formative period ... made up of vital 'essentials,' 'pillars,' 'foundations.' These may be listed as: 1. The second advent of Christ. 2. The binding claims of the seventh-day Sabbath. 3. The third angel's message in its fullness, in correct relationship to the first and second angel's messages. 4. The ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, which ministry would cease not long before the second advent (with emphasis on the work beginning the tenth day of the seventh month, 1844). 5. The non-immortality of the soul.
• "These structural doctrines formed the 'firm platform' which, in 1858, was described by Ellen White, upon which 'nearly all stood firm' ... These constituted the 'landmarks' enumerated by Ellen White thirty years later..." (Messenger to the Remnant, pp. 39,40).

Since Mrs. White and the Adventist Church teach that their major doctrinal platform was finalized in their early days (and since the Adventist Church tells us that Mrs. White was an inspired prophetess), there is no need for re-evaluation of this group as Walter Martin required. A study of recent Seventh-Day Adventist publications confirms this judgment, since they continue to teach the same heresies promulgated by Ellen White and other early Adventist leaders.

As a group, the Seventh-Day Adventists today are the same divisive heretics they have been from their origin. To deserve a re-evaluation and re-labeling, they would have to denounce and turn away from every one of their heresies, including the foundational heresy that Ellen White was a prophetess of God.​

I have asked why a Christian website allows Adventists to post here. I get answers from moderators and administrators occasionally that reveal some dissatisfaction with the position attained by consensus.

 

[Gibs]

VictorC,

I don't coerce no one and neither does God. We are all free as far as He is concerned but not in the world. Different powers in the world are taking away the God given freedom and forcing their agenda.

You are free and we truly all are under God but not of men in high places.

 

[VictorC]

VictorC,

I don't coerce no one and neither does God. We are all free as far as He is concerned but not in the world. Different powers in the world are taking away the God given freedom and forcing their agenda.

You are free and we truly all are under God but not of men in high places.

A discussion forum isn't designed with coercion in mind. It is for discussion, and a forum such as this one can be a beneficial tool to bring Christians to the unity in the one faith entrusted to us.

Having said that, you haven't shown interest in either discussion or the unity of our faith. The comments you posted above have about as much relevance with your endorsement of Adventism as opinions regarding motor oil and cheese on the moon.

 

[from scratch]

He is Spirit and we come by spirit and join in worship in spirit and in Truth.

Church only is had when the worship is in Truth, He says it MUST be!

What is in Truth?

 

[from scratch]

VictorC,

SDAdvemtism was the best of the reform structures of men. The further down the road in time it went the more error there was that came in.

I can't be of any denomination of this world as only Christ can and did build His Church and guaranteed us it would not fall. All just need to come and get in it.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Why do you seem to be defending SDAism?

 

[Gibs]

What is in Truth?

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[from scratch]

VictorC,

I don't coerce no one and neither does God. We are all free as far as He is concerned but not in the world. Different powers in the world are taking away the God given freedom and forcing their agenda.

You are free and we truly all are under God but not of men in high places.

Maybe if one only uses part of definition of coerce.



verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing.

1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.

2. to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.

3. to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

The way I read the definition you absolutely do coerce. I would include things you use as manipulation and fear.

You absolutely use intimidation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Gibs

VictorC,

I don't coerce no one and neither does God. We are all free as far as He is concerned but not in the world. Different powers in the world are taking away the God given freedom and forcing their agenda.

You are free and we truly all are under God but not of men in high places.
​

Maybe if one only uses part of definition of coerce.

verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing.

1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.

2. to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.

3. to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

The way I read the definition you absolutely do coerce. I would include things you use as manipulation and fear.

You absolutely use intimidation.

Another words, a Pharisee?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE PHARISEES

Matthew 23:15
Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
that ye are going about the sea and the dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte
and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves

Acts 13:43
Of being loosed yet of the synagogue, many of the Judeans and the being reverent proselytes/proslalounteV <4354> (5723) follow to Paul and to Barnabus,
whoany speaking to them persuaded them to be remaining to the Grace of the GOD

 

[mmksparbud]

I have been following without comment for awhile--you all have a tendency to get me too riled up! But this is enough to get even me out of the woodwork!!


Intimidation indeed!!--There are more lies and bull spread around here then I've encountered anywhere else!! We have been lied about, half truths told, statements made that to listen to us is to put their souls in jeopardy and that only your point of view is right and we are Pharisees, liars--and given enough time probably responsible for the state of the economy!

Don't you all get tired of this diatribe? No one here ever says what we really believe even when we repeat it 100 times and you keep telling us what we believe even when we don't!!
We're continually told we don't keep the Sabbath that we proclaim to keep because we do not shut down the whole worlds utilities on the Sabbath!!--Basically that is what you say, as we are everywhere, all over the world in even some of the smallest towns--so by all means--we should take control of the world and by force shut down all utilities on the Sabbath, shut down all gas pumps, and just let those in hospitals die, including newborns, leave the elderly in rest homes without heat or water or anything, let farmers let their cows suffer from not milking them with their electrical equipment, and so on and on and on--IS EVERYBODY NUTS??? We have never and never and never will demand for the world to do anything we teach!! To enforce by law our way of life in not going to happen--we'll leave that to the Anti-Christ!! DOES ANYONE COMPREHEND THE SHEAR STUPIDITY OF SUCH STATEMENTS???
Intimidation and coercion is what you all are doing---trying to intimidate and coerce us into submitting to your point of view.

Hypocrisy is another label pinned to us by you all--really??--Who here states they do as Paul says, and then proceed to tell us what he says by quoting this:

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


There are 4 things to abstain from listed--but when these are pointed out to you--you all insist that Paul made a mistake--You can't remove blood, and you can't stay away from things strangled (or suffocated)--the fornication might be ok, if you can, but no big deal, ok if your engaged, mustn't be too strict on anything. Most animals are not bled, and the eating of medium to med rare and even rare meat is perfectly ok. No hypocrisy there!! Yah--you go by scriptures alright, as long as it doesn't step on your toes!! LOL!!

You scream that the law of God is no longer written in stone, but is now written in our hearts--so therefore it no longer needs to be kept.---Really??--
So where it is written is what makes it null and void?--Not in stone, it's in our hearts--so changing the material upon which they are written makes them useless? So if the Constitution is printed out on modern paper it is no longer valid?? Even if the original should disintegrate, and only copies remain--it means nothing and need not be adhered to? And if no copies remain, only those words stamped forever in our hearts remain, it is no longer to be obeyed??---

Justification by faith has been since the beginning--since Abel, Abraham, Moses--even Paul says that. And we have said, and will continue to say, that
SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS, BUT BY GRACE!!! You can keep the Sabbath till doomsday--won't save you--but the WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD will always end up with complete, permanent separation from Him if not repented of!! You can't disobey God and live in His presence!!


Go right ahead with your dancing around the word of God--it won't change a thing--and that is all I have to say!

 

[from scratch]

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Doesn't answer the question. The conversation is worship in spirit and truth. I ask you specifically what worshipping in spirit and truth is. All I get is the above obfuscation. Really you must think everyone is ignorant. So quit insulting us.

 

[Gibs]

Doesn't answer the question. The conversation is worship in spirit and truth. I ask you specifically what worshipping in spirit and truth is. All I get is the above obfuscation. Really you must think everyone is ignorant. So quit insulting us.

You asked, "what is truth?" And in a post above that one you had asked what is worshipping in spirit and in truth. I had answered in my words and now the Word of Him,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Here is the Greek meaning for "spirit"

4151. pneuma

pneuma pneuma pnyoo'-mah
from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.

See Greek 4154
See Greek 5590

Virtually or efectively I see it as our spirit reaching out to Him in spirit and His Spirit seeking our worship in ALL Truth..

 

[from scratch]

I have been following without comment for awhile--you all have a tendency to get me too riled up! But this is enough to get even me out of the woodwork!!


Intimidation indeed!!--There are more lies and bull spread around here then I've encountered anywhere else!! We have been lied about, half truths told, statements made that to listen to us is to put their souls in jeopardy and that only your point of view is right and we are Pharisees, liars--and given enough time probably responsible for the state of the economy!

Do I need to post from the dictionary what intimidation means?

Yes there is. Wonder who's throwing it?

You've no clue what the Bible says. I point you to Gal 5:4. Do I need to quote your prophetess again? OK -

"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" {6T 356.4}

The Sabbath is the golden clasp that unites God and His people.


It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord.

From My Life Today - Page 292
Ellen G. White Estate: Daily Devotional - My Life Today

Do you want more?

Don't you all get tired of this diatribe? No one here ever says what we really believe even when we repeat it 100 times and you keep telling us what we believe even when we don't!!

Yes I do. The problem seems to be the belief if a lie is used often enough people believe it to be true. That 's exactly what being done here by your comrades.

We're continually told we don't keep the Sabbath that we proclaim to keep because we do not shut down the whole worlds utilities on the Sabbath!!--

No, no its just that you can't use them with out breaking the 4th commandment.

Basically that is what you say, as we are everywhere, all over the world in even some of the smallest towns--so by all means--we should take control of the world and by force shut down all utilities on the Sabbath, shut down all gas pumps, and just let those in hospitals die, including newborns, leave the elderly in rest homes without heat or water or anything, let farmers let their cows suffer from not milking them with their electrical equipment, and so on and on and on--IS EVERYBODY NUTS??? We have never and never and never will demand for the world to do anything we teach!!

Do you know anything about Loma Linda, CA? I do.

To enforce by law our way of life in not going to happen--we'll leave that to the Anti-Christ!!

Bull!!! Loma Linda , CA is a mighty fine example.

DOES ANYONE COMPREHEND THE SHEAR STUPIDITY OF SUCH STATEMENTS???

You're being extremely absurd and argumentative resulting from hurt that we don't accept the SDA truth.

Intimidation and coercion is what you all are doing---trying to intimidate and coerce us into submitting to your point of view.

Who started this thread? Are you saying you really want no response from those being attacked? Your poor me pity SDA ploy stuff is very old hat around here. We're used to it.

Hypocrisy is another label pinned to us by you all--really??-

No not really, you all reach out and grab it with gusto!

-Who here states they do as Paul says, and then proceed to tell us what he says by quoting this:

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


There are 4 things to abstain from listed--but when these are pointed out to you--you all insist that Paul made a mistake--You can't remove blood, and you can't stay away from things strangled (or suffocated)--the fornication might be ok, if you can, but no big deal, ok if your engaged, mustn't be too strict on anything. Most animals are not bled, and the eating of medium to med rare and even rare meat is perfectly ok. No hypocrisy there!! Yah--you go by scriptures alright, as long as it doesn't step on your toes!! LOL!!

You have your posters mixed up. A sabbatarian introduced the idea, not the pro grace camp.

You scream that the law of God is no longer written in stone, but is now written in our hearts--so therefore it no longer needs to be kept.---Really??

Again you're mixed up. Not a single one of us have ever made that clam. I've quoted and even parsed the appropriate passage. It just gets thrown out like trash.

-- So where it is written is what makes it null and void?--Not in stone, it's in our hearts--so changing the material upon which they are written makes them useless? So if the Constitution is printed out on modern paper it is no longer valid?? Even if the original should disintegrate, and only copies remain--it means nothing and need not be adhered to? And if no copies remain, only those words stamped forever in our hearts remain, it is no longer to be obeyed??---

That's simply not the deal. You refuse to believe Moses, the prophets, the Gospels, Jesus and Paul. You're very quiet about all of the above by omission and usually holler loudly about Paul. Paul says things like -

Now we are delivered from the law Rom 7:6

And tells us to throw out the law in Gal 4:30.

Justification by faith has been since the beginning--since Abel, Abraham, Moses--even Paul says that. And we have said, and will continue to say, that
SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS, BUT BY GRACE!!! You can keep the Sabbath till doomsday--won't save you--but the WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD will always end up with complete, permanent separation from Him if not repented of!! You can't disobey God and live in His presence!!

You can say anything you want. It would help quite a bit if you were consistent. See my quotes above from your prophetess.

Go right ahead with your dancing around the word of God--it won't change a thing--and that is all I have to say!

Are you now telling me to sin by dancing when you clearly do?

 

[Gibs]

mmksparbud,

I agree with your above post and I do my best not be rising up and being defensive.

It is a hard row to hoe as self keeps urging retaliate but as true Christians we take Christ's example but we do note He at times could speak more direct than John the Baptist but we note it was not in retaliation or defensiveness.

Our wonderful Big Brother our example, how can we not love Him with all our heart and soul?

 

[from scratch]

You asked, "what is truth?" And in a post above that one you had asked what is worshipping in spirit and in truth. I had answered in my words and now the Word of Him,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Here is the Greek meaning for "spirit"

4151. pneuma

pneuma pneuma pnyoo'-mah
from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.

See Greek 4154
See Greek 5590

Virtually or efectively I see it as our spirit reaching out to Him in spirit and His Spirit seeking our worship in ALL Truth..

Yes and I mistakenly thought you'd relate it to your post I quoted. I understand not being able to follow a conversation, but you take the cake.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

mmksparbud,

I agree with your above post and I do my best not be rising up and being defensive.

It is a hard row to hoe as self keeps urging retaliate but as true Christians we take Christ's example but we do note He at times could speak more direct than John the Baptist but we note it was not in retaliation or defensiveness.

Our wonderful Big Brother our example, how can we not love Him with all our heart and soul?

Sometimes Jesus and Paul didn't hold back punches......

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE CHIEF PRIESTS AND PHARISEES

Matt 23:27
'Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That ye are likened to whitewashed sepulchres, who-any outwardly indeed appearing beautiful,
yet within are being replete of bones of dead-ones, and of every uncleanness

Acts 23:2
The yet Chief-priest Ananias enjoins those standing beside him to be smiting of him the mouth.
3 Then Paul said toward him, "to be smiting thee is being about the God.
Wall! whitewashed! and thou, thou dost sitting judging me according to the law, and being beside law, ordering me to be be smitten!'
[Matt 23:27/Revelation 6:16]