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Does God exist?

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quatona

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You should check out analytic philosophy. I'm personally torn with this style of communicating, because this a debate board, so I should be extra careful with my terms, but that takes work and this is a recreational board, so I'm able to loosen my belt a little.
That´s ok. What I take issue with is when you losen your belt at my expense; i.e. I am making a statement, and without even addressing the statement, you immediately take one of the keyterms, use it in a different definition and have changed the topic.
I think I would be more open to follow you on your tangents (which actually are completely immaterial for my point - other than having a word in common, albeit in totally different definitions), if you´d first respond to the actual statement (just so I get some feedback).



Two people create a game, and the rules that go with this game. Are they authorities, or are just the rules themselves the authority? I think our problem is a difference in perspective.
Yeah, if you give an example that merely begs the question...
Of course, the two uses of "authority" here still point to two entirely different definitions; and since in my initial statement I used "authority" exactly to distinguish an authoritative creator entity from an in itself convincing "game" that everyone plays naturally, your equivocation simply serves to ignore my point (not that I am assuming that that´s your intention, though).



I meant "might be needed" in the sense of, "if God is needed for morality, rather than God not existing and/or evolution totally explaining morality," not directly with what we're talking about.
Yes, again: It would be easier for me to get off talking about stuff that I didn´t talk about, if first I would at least get a feedback telling me that what I was talking about has been understood and taken into consideration (not necessarily agreed with, though).

And I'll take it as an unsubstantiated premise, because we don't need to go into the details of this idea in order for us to consider contingencies with the argument we're talking about now, do we?
Received: All this is completely irrelevant and immaterial for what I was talking about, in the first place. That´s the very problem I am trying to tell you about.

Doesn´t mean that the topic you have immediately changed it into by means of creative equivocation isn´t interesting, too, and that we can´t talk about it later. But I am frustrated with responses that simply ignore my point.
 
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KCfromNC

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Psychologists are not, on the whole, committed to physicalism/materialism. Why would they be? Some of the assumptions of physicalists, like Daniel Dennett's denial of intentionality, would render psychology pointless.

Acre to point us to any psychology articles which discuss treating disorders in non-corporeal minds? If you can't, my example stands.
 
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FireDragon76

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Can you point to any psychology articles which discuss treating disorders in non-corporeal minds?

Just because we usually experience minds with bodies doesn't mean that physicalism is true. And in the case of God, the necessity of a body for there to be a mind is usually not true.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Just because we usually experience minds with bodies doesn't mean that physicalism is true. And in the case of God, the necessity of a body for there to be a mind is usually not true.

Usually? When was the last time you encountered a disembodied mind?
 
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bhsmte

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The radical Islamist could say the same thing you are saying and thereby conclude that it is moral to kill you and your family because you are not worshipers of Allah.

Its all a matter of perspective and opinion in your world. The Jihadist is doing what is right in his own sight and since he thinks it is right, to him it is right. People may have different opinions, but no one in your world would dare accuse the Jihadist of doing anything really wrong because "right" and "wrong" refer to nothing more than people's fleeting and fickle opinions and feelings.

Are you not glad that you live in a society that does not base their laws on people's feelings and opinions? How do you feel living in a society where those in power think the exact opposite of how you think?

How does our society base our laws?
 
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Jeremy E Walker

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How does our society base our laws?

If you live in America, laws are based on certain unalienable rights human beings are said to have been endowed with by their Creator.

Jefferson understood "unalienable rights" as fixed rights given to us by our Creator rather than by government. The emphasis on our Creator is crucial, because it shows that the rights are permanent just as the Creator is permanent.

Jefferson's thought on the source of these rights was impacted by Oxford's William Blackstone, who described "unalienable rights" as "absolute" rights—showing that they were absolute because they came from him who is absolute, and that they were, are, and always will be, because the Giver of those rights—Jefferson's "Creator"—was, and is, and always be.
Moreover, because we are "endowed" with them, the rights are inseparable from us: they are part of our humanity.

Thus in America, these "rights" are not based on some changing, subjective, fickle emotion or feeling or opinion, but rather on certain rights human beings have been endowed with.

That is why in America, it is not opinion that counts, but whether or not someone breaks an objective law. The rapist does not get to use as his defense: "Well it is my opinion that rape is just fine and dandy!" If he says that, the judge is likely to make an example out of him and give him even more time for being so dismissive. One thing you WON'T see is people saying: "well gosh! I guess you got a point, you're free to keep on doing whatever you want!"

That is absurd. The view that morality is based on people's feelings and opinions is something you see primarily touted by atheists and hair-brained philosophers on internet forums. You will see this very rarely, if at all in the real world.

What society do you know of that exists today that encourages its citizens to just live however they want to according to their feelings and opinions?
 
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PsychoSarah

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Except there is no objectivity to our laws, they change over time, have to be interpreted by our court system. In fact, it wouldn't even matter if the initial laws came from some objective source, because humans have to interpret laws to use them, and we all interpret things differently from one another in a subjective way.
 
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bhsmte

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If you live in America, laws are based on certain unalienable rights human beings are said to have been endowed with by their Creator.

Jefferson understood "unalienable rights" as fixed rights given to us by our Creator rather than by government. The emphasis on our Creator is crucial, because it shows that the rights are permanent just as the Creator is permanent.

Jefferson's thought on the source of these rights was impacted by Oxford's William Blackstone, who described "unalienable rights" as "absolute" rights—showing that they were absolute because they came from him who is absolute, and that they were, are, and always will be, because the Giver of those rights—Jefferson's "Creator"—was, and is, and always be.
Moreover, because we are "endowed" with them, the rights are inseparable from us: they are part of our humanity.

Thus in America, these "rights" are not based on some changing, subjective, fickle emotion or feeling or opinion, but rather on certain rights human beings have been endowed with.

That is why in America, it is not opinion that counts, but whether or not someone breaks an objective law. The rapist does not get to use as his defense: "Well it is my opinion that rape is just fine and dandy!" If he says that, the judge is likely to make an example out of him and give him even more time for being so dismissive. One thing you WON'T see is people saying: "well gosh! I guess you got a point, you're free to keep on doing whatever you want!"

That is absurd. The view that morality is based on people's feelings and opinions is something you see primarily touted by atheists and hair-brained philosophers on internet forums. You will see this very rarely, if at all in the real world.

Wrong. Laws are changed all the time, why is that, if they are objective and firm?
 
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Jeremy E Walker

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Except there is no objectivity to our laws, they change over time, have to be interpreted by our court system. In fact, it wouldn't even matter if the initial laws came from some objective source, because humans have to interpret laws to use them, and we all interpret things differently from one another in a subjective way.



Your opinion means nothing if you commit a crime. If you are found guilty of breaking the law, you are punished for it regardless of your opinion of whether or not it is right or wrong.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Your opinion means nothing if you commit a crime. If you are found guilty of breaking the law, you are punished for it regardless of your opinion of whether or not it is right or wrong.

Sure, the opinion of the lawbreaker doesn't matter. But the opinion of the judge and jury does.
 
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bhsmte

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Read what I wrote.

Why do laws change over time, if they are objective and firm?

Are you familiar with Jefferson and his personal beliefs? He was a deist, who took a bible and crossed out all the miracles attributed to Jesus because he thought they were all bunk.
 
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Jeremy E Walker

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Sure, the opinion of the lawbreaker doesn't matter. But the opinion of the judge and jury does.

In America, murdering someone is a crime. It is a crime even if the murderer disagrees.

It does not matter what their opinion is. They are convicted as having broken a law.

Period.
 
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bhsmte

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In America, murdering someone is a crime. It is a crime even if the murderer disagrees.

It does not matter what their opinion is. They are convicted as having broken a law.

Period.

Nothing like stating the obvious, it is called the rule of law. A judge is bound to follow the law and instruct the jury on the same. Sometimes, laws change, because the legislature, feels the need to change them.
 
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Jeremy E Walker

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Nothing like stating the obvious, it is called the rule of law. A judge is bound to follow the law and instruct the jury on the same. Sometimes, laws change, because the legislature, feels the need to change them.

Why do you keep talking about how laws change?

When was murder not murder?

When was rape not rape?

When was stealing not stealing?
 
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bhsmte

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Yea and if those who made the laws made it a law to round up atheists and put them in concentration camps, then that would be moral, right?

Come on man get real.

Laws change, based on what is accepted by society as moral. Remember the Japanese who were put in camps during WW2 who were American citizens? Do you think that would happen today?

Back then, the majority of people were ok with it.
 
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