How were you taught Evolution?

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Why teach that naturalistic mechanisms are sufficient in and of themselves, needing nothing else, to create humanity from a single life form from long long ago? Don't teach any form of creationism.
. . . .

OK I have an alternate way for us to look at your question. Regardless of the idea of evolution, we know that human beings are born following sex and the merging of sperm with egg and development in the shelter of the womb.

Now that the human race has gotten started doing it that way, is this subsequent reproduction due entirely to naturalistic means, or is there some miraculous element involved?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I agree completely with justlookinla. Similarities doesn't mean evolution.

The evidence for evolution is supposed to be repeatable and observable but above you are using the word "suggests". That is the same as assuming.

I used the word suggests because I personally am not used to every word I use in a sentence being so meticulously evaluated that a single word choice of that insignificance would matter to you. Nothing about the observable word suggests a literal biblical interpretation to be valid anyways, so what exactly makes you think that my position of scientifically not choosing to just state evolution is 100% fact makes your significantly unsupported position any stronger?

 

[MuchWiser]

Not quite. When they invoke God they are not modifying the scientific theory, they are expressing a metaphysical position. The theory remains unchanged.

Yes they are changing it. They're adding to it.

What are they adding? does every creation myth add to evolution or only your creation myth?
You have been sold a pup and you know it.

 

[quatona]

I'd still have the question of what was providing the impetus.

And do you happen to have a scientific answer?

 

[MuchWiser]

I'd still have the question of what was providing the impetus.

If a big asteroid hits the earth tomorrow and destroyed it what good would impetus or reason do any of us?

The Black Death nearly did for the human race in Europe but evolution saved our bacon, how? because evolution makes sure that we are all different with different resistances to disease.

 

[EternalDragon]

If a big asteroid hits the earth tomorrow and destroyed it what good would impetus or reason do any of us?

The Black Death nearly did for the human race in Europe but evolution saved our bacon, how? because evolution makes sure that we are all different with different resistances to disease.

That's not evolution.

 

[lasthero]

That's not evolution.

Yes, it is. Sorry, you don't get to redefine words to suit your tastes.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Why teach that naturalistic mechanisms are sufficient in and of themselves, needing nothing else, to create humanity from a single life form from long long ago? Don't teach any form of creationism.

Evasion. I didn't ask you that. I asked in general terms how you would teach evolution evolution in a way that doesn't invoke supernatural influences but also doesn't present natural mechanisms as sufficient. You can't give a straight answer to this, can you?

Yes they are changing it. They're adding to it.

As are you. A christian learns the evolutionary mechanisms that produce our biota and assumes that God put them in place. You see those same mechanisms and assume that they indicate that God isn't allowed. The real problem is that you don't believe evolution happened at all, so there is no way to teach it that would satisfy you.

I believe at some point in the past, there was no humanity. I believe that humanity now exists. The issue is how, by what means, was humanity created from non-humanity, specifically a single life form which existed long long ago. Wrap it in whatever word or phrase you wish, it's creationism.

Don't teach creationism in science class. Drop Darwinism. Eliminate it.

Avoiding the point. You don't actually believe in evolution, even divinely ordained and sustained evolution. You don't believe that birds arose from dinosaurs or whales evolved from terrestrial ancestors whether by God's hand or not. You have already admitted this. So you really don't want evolution taught at all.

That doesn't preclude the teaching of evolution though. It simply eliminates a faith-based atheistic creationist teaching from the classroom. If it's science, teach it, if not, drop it.

Again, please provide a direct answer for once. How you would teach evolution evolution in a way that doesn't invoke supernatural influences but also doesn't present natural mechanisms as sufficient?

If one claims that all of life, including humanity, is created by an impetus which is totally, completely, solely sufficient in and of itself, nothing else needed, nothing else allowed, the one explanation is true, then there is no possibility allowed or permitted for supernatural influence.

That is not a response to the point I made. There's no evidence that refutes the possibility of supernatural influence because no such influence could be detected scientifically. Do you agree that supernatural influence is beyond the scope of science? (Cue evasive response).

 

[DerelictJunction]

Let's assume that you mean in the U.S. public school system.

Since a creationist viewpoint is not being taught in any U.S. public school system, then none of that is being taught.

Do you have evidence that it is being taught?

This thread is proof that it is.

That's a good one!!!

Wait...ahem....you're serious? That's your evidence?!!

Well, all I can do is use your own words from post 765 in this very thread.

More blah blah blah blah, and blah blah blah blah. Typing empty claims isn't evidence.

Imagine...you actually typed that!!!



Ok...ok...more seriously.

You believe the evidence that creationism is being taught in U.S. public schools is the fact that you wrote that you are concerned about it?
Basically you are saying, "Because I said so".

Sorry, but the posters here are well beyond the age that "Because I said so" gets a pass as a valid reason for anything, even from our parents.
I would be incredulous, but we have all come to expect nothing better from you.

Now, really, please provide evidence for your assertion that some form of creationism is being taught in U.S. public school science classes.

 

[justlookinla]

And do you happen to have a scientific answer?

Nobody has a scientific answer as to the only impetus which created humanity from a single life form of long long ago.

 

[justlookinla]

OK I have an alternate way for us to look at your question. Regardless of the idea of evolution, we know that human beings are born following sex and the merging of sperm with egg and development in the shelter of the womb.

Now that the human race has gotten started doing it that way, is this subsequent reproduction due entirely to naturalistic means, or is there some miraculous element involved?

At times there is a miraculous element involved.....

Gen 17:15 Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name.
Gen 17:16 "I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her."
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?"
​

Gen 21:5 Now Abraham was one hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.
​

And of course you're aware of other examples in the bible. I've personally known couples who were unable to conceive, had prayer for their situation and they conceived.

In every case though, humans produced humans through naturalistic means.

 

[justlookinla]

What are they adding? does every creation myth add to evolution or only your creation myth?
You have been sold a pup and you know it.

They're adding, and changing, the inherently atheistic creationist view that all of life, including humanity, is the creation of solely, only, totally, completely naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago.

If you wish to embrace the atheistic creationist myth, that's your choice. Christians don't.

 

[justlookinla]

If a big asteroid hits the earth tomorrow and destroyed it what good would impetus or reason do any of us?

The Black Death nearly did for the human race in Europe but evolution saved our bacon, how? because evolution makes sure that we are all different with different resistances to disease.

Darwinist creationism didn't create non-humans from humans during the Black Death, did it? Of course not.

God designed healing, to a point, in us. I'm sure you've experienced it but are totally ignorant of it.

 

[justlookinla]

That's not evolution.

Exactly. I'm sure he wishes he'd never posted that.

 

[DerelictJunction]

They're adding, and changing, the inherently atheistic creationist view that all of life, including humanity, is the creation of solely, only, totally, completely naturalistic mechanisms acting on a single life form from long long ago.

If you wish to embrace the atheistic creationist myth, that's your choice. Christians don't.

Did you ever plan on providing evidence that U.S. public schools are teaching this "atheistic creationism"?
So far, you haven't even produce a bit of evidence that evolution is being taught much less this delusional monstrosity of yours.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Darwinist creationism didn't create non-humans from humans during the Black Death, did it? Of course not.

God designed healing, to a point, in us. I'm sure you've experienced it but are totally ignorant of it.

That you don't understand how evolution works is already obvious to us. You don't have continue to provide a detailed map of the bounds of your ignorance.

Black death: Some died, some got sick, but didn't die, and a scant few did not get sick even though they were exposed. The differences in the characteristics of each individual, caused different reactions to the disease organism.
The Black Death was the vector of natural selection resulting a change in the allele frequency Black Death resistance within the human population. It created a slightly different human species.

 

[justlookinla]

Evasion. I didn't ask you that. I asked in general terms how you would teach evolution evolution in a way that doesn't invoke supernatural influences but also doesn't present natural mechanisms as sufficient. You can't give a straight answer to this, can you?

I've answered over and over and over and over, but you aren't understanding. In the sense of teaching you something you apparently don't understand, I'll try again. And again. And again.

First, the teaching that only, solely, naturalistic mechanisms are sufficient in and of themselves, alone, without any other impetus, creates all of life, including humanity from a single life form of long long ago shouldn't be taught. No creationist viewpoint should be taught, including atheistic creationism.

Read this slowly. Move your lips if you must. Only teach evolutionary views which are scientific. Nothing else. Only scientific evolutionary views. What naturalistic mechanisms are sufficient for what? Depends on if they're scientific. If they are, teach them, if they're not, eliminate them.

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.​

As are you. A christian learns the evolutionary mechanisms that produce our biota and assumes that God put them in place. You see those same mechanisms and assume that they indicate that God isn't allowed. The real problem is that you don't believe evolution happened at all, so there is no way to teach it that would satisfy you.

Nope, you're wrong, making a false claim. I believe evolution occurs, what I dont' believe is that humanity is the result of only, solely, totally, completely naturalistic mechanisms acting in a single life form from long long ago. My faith isn't placed in that particular faith-based creationist view.

Avoiding the point. You don't actually believe in evolution, even divinely ordained and sustained evolution.

I don't believe in atheistic creationism which produced an apple and a whale from the same life form. There's no evidence for that faith-based creationist view.

You don't believe that birds arose from dinosaurs or whales evolved from terrestrial ancestors whether by God's hand or not. You have already admitted this. So you really don't want evolution taught at all.

Sure, teach evolution based on science.

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.​

Again, please provide a direct answer for once. How you would teach evolution evolution in a way that doesn't invoke supernatural influences but also doesn't present natural mechanisms as sufficient?

Natural mechanisms as sufficient for what? Sufficient in and of itself, the only explanation, for the creation of humanity from a single life form of long long ago? Don't teach that faith-based creationist view, it's not sufficient. No evidence exists which prove it's sufficient.

Teach those sufficient natural mechanisms which are based on science.....

"sci·ence
ˈsīəns/Submit
noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."​

....and trash the rest.

That is not a response to the point I made. There's no evidence that refutes the possibility of supernatural influence because no such influence could be detected scientifically. Do you agree that supernatural influence is beyond the scope of science? (Cue evasive response).

Of course.

Do you agree that humanity is the creation of only, solely, completely, totally naturalistic mechanisms, with no other impetus, acting on a single life form from long long ago?

 

[justlookinla]

Did you ever plan on providing evidence that U.S. public schools are teaching this "atheistic creationism"?
So far, you haven't even produce a bit of evidence that evolution is being taught much less this delusional monstrosity of yours.

Go waste someone else's time.

 

[justlookinla]

That you don't understand how evolution works is already obvious to us. You don't have continue to provide a detailed map of the bounds of your ignorance.

Evolution doesn't work by creating humanity from a single life form of long long ago. That particular view is a pseudo-science, faith-based atheistic creationist view.

Black death: Some died, some got sick, but didn't die, and a scant few did not get sick even though they were exposed. The differences in the characteristics of each individual, caused different reactions to the disease organism.
The Black Death was the vector of natural selection resulting a change in the allele frequency Black Death resistance within the human population. It created a slightly different human species.

LOL! No it didn't. Black Death did not result in speciation....LOL!

Humans were humans before Black Death and humans were humans after Black Death.

Your post is both humorous and sad at the same time. The mind of atheistic creationist will believe anything as long as it's Godless, it seems.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Go waste someone else's time.

The reasons I continue to request this are that the belief that such teaching is occurring is the hinge pin of your discussion, and you have not provided any evidence supporting the truth of your assertion.

At least now you are admitting that you have none. Ok