Important Facts about Evolution

[CabVet]

The Lord didn't say that. You did.

The Lord didn't say what's in the Bible either, and much less what you say is in the Bible.

 

[USincognito]

Unfortunately this got lost in the nonsense, but I think it's sufficiently interesting enough important fact about evolution that I'm going to bump it.

 

[CabVet]

Unfortunately this got lost in the nonsense, but I think it's sufficiently interesting enough important fact about evolution that I'm going to bump it.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how many times we post it. Denial is strong here. I think that if we haven't gone to space and didn't have pictures of the earth from up there, these very same people would still be arguing that the earth is flat.

 

[BL2KTN]

So either they're lying or you are.
From my personal experience, I believe them.
People don't suffer and die to promote a hoax that gains them nothing but poverty, ridicule and persecution for their lifetime. Paul was a Roman citizen and a person of some stature before answering the call of the Lord. I've seen firsthand how the Lord can change a person's life. Sorry, but your words are rendered absolutely meaningless just from my own personal experiences; let alone those of far greater men than I.

In the New Testament, the only writings which are by the person they say they are written by are the letters from Paul. Now Paul is a guy who sees visions, says he is taught nothing by men but only by Yeshua, purposefully edits what he copies from the Old Testament, doesn't get along with the other followers of Jesus, and calls himself the thirteenth apostle. Not sure we really want to go along with that guy. The other writings are obviously not by who they say they are, Matthew being the worst one in that the author messes up Hebrew prophecies because he can't read Hebrew... thus he has Yeshua riding into Jerusalem on two animals (the other gospels get it right).

There were actually over thirty gospels at the time Iranaeaus decided to canonize the four we have today based on his understanding of the four corners of the world and the four winds of the Earth. All other gospels and their followers were declared heretical. The other gospels were destroyed, even the Jewish gospels that were likely much more accurate and were cited by church fathers often in their teachings.

Thus, what you are basing your belief on, KWCrazy, is not the writings of men who died martyrs for Yeshua, but the writings of impostors pretending to be men that supposedly died martyrs but we can't really even prove existed.

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43)

Yes, Yeshua supposedly advocated self-mutilation. It's a not-so-lovely teaching. In another spot he supports men cutting their testicles off so they can get into heaven. I'm not sure that he advocated Neanderthals being fallen angels though... you're flying solo with that one.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how many times we post it. Denial is strong here. I think that if we haven't gone to space and didn't have pictures of the earth from up there, these very same people would still be arguing that the earth is flat.

There's actually a woman who says she'll believe the sky is a solid dome if the bible says it (it does). I think she's really confused now that I showed it to her.

 

[KWCrazy]

I think that if we haven't gone to space and didn't have pictures of the earth from up there, these very same people would still be arguing that the earth is flat.

It was the scientific community that pushed the flat earth. The Bible says nothing about the shape of the earth. It does, however, say that God hangs the earth on nothing. In fact, things like atoms, radio waves, ocean currents, and germs were mentioned in the Bible centuries before man knew anything about these things.

 

[PsychoSarah]

" Don't be ignorant of Satan's devices. The Word of God leaves no doubt about the existence or nature of hell. With clarity and authority, God has told us everything we need to know about hell, and how to avoid it through the merits of Christ."

Then the King will say to those on His left, "Depart from me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."...These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:41, 46)

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43)

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)

...drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger. And he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night. (Revelation 14:10-11)

"According to Jesus, hell is a place of outer darkness (Matthew 22:13) where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12). Hell is a fiery furnace (Matthew 13:42, 50) of unquenchable fires (Mark 9:48-49). Hell is a place of spiritual and bodily destruction (Matthew 10:28) where there are endless torments (Luke 16:23-24). Hell is most certainly a place, a horrific place where agonizing conditions exist."

You can quote the bible all you like, doesn't change the fact that I have met Christians and spoken to some on this site who don't believe in eternal punishment. Their personal beliefs.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It was the scientific community that pushed the flat earth. The Bible says nothing about the shape of the earth. It does, however, say that God hangs the earth on nothing. In fact, things like atoms, radio waves, ocean currents, and germs were mentioned in the Bible centuries before man knew anything about these things.

Actually, it was the church who pushed the flat earth idea, as there are certain events in the bible that would only work if the earth was flat. Technically the scientific community knew the earth was round before Christianity existed, as is seen in Ancient Greek texts. The Dark Ages really were one giant step back for humanity.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Spooky stuff.

Why do you quote Einstein, regarding truth?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

The Lord didn't say what's in the Bible either, and much less what you say is in the Bible.

Yes he did.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Unfortunately this got lost in the nonsense, but I think it's sufficiently interesting enough important fact about evolution that I'm going to bump it.

Computer generated. Awesome.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how many times we post it. Denial is strong here. I think that if we haven't gone to space and didn't have pictures of the earth from up there, these very same people would still be arguing that the earth is flat.

How about all that water inside the magma of the earth. Still think earth was once a covered in magma or water?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

You can quote the bible all you like, doesn't change the fact that I have met Christians and spoken to some on this site who don't believe in eternal punishment. Their personal beliefs.

What makes them Christians?

 

[bhsmte]

Why do you quote Einstein, regarding truth?

Why do you ask?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Why do you ask?

Do you really think he was referring to Atheists?

 

[bhsmte]

Do you really think he was referring to Atheists?

Interesting way for you to look at it.

To me, he is simply talking about the importance of truth.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I did answer the question.

I disagree.

To better clarify, let's read Romans 2:

Let's not. Because your bible clearly can be interpreted in any way you see fit for the point you're trying to make. So instead of using the bible as a scapegoat or some "means to an end", just make your point instead.

So each will be judged according to his own heart, according to the Scriptures.

Then your religion is irrelevant.

So what of the good atheist. Is there such a thing?

Off course there is. Just like there are good christians, muslims, jews, hindu's,... And just like there are bad atheists, christians, muslims, jews, hindu's,...

To deny that would require some serious "head-sticking-in-sand" on your part.

Consider that a man is according to his heart, and atheists have no mechanism for forgiveness because they reject Jesus Christ and they don't follow the original covenant of sacrificing unblemished sheep to the Lord.

If you ever stole anything, you're an unforgiven thief.
If you had sex outside of marriage, you're an unforgiven adulterer.
If you ever wished someone was dead, you're an unforgiven murderer.
If you've ever committed blasphemy, you're an unforgiven blasphemer.
If you've ever spoken an untruth, you're an unforgiven liar.

Ow, great.... The Ray "banana man" Comfort routine...
I hope you realise that by engaging in this nonsense, your credibility - in my eyes at least - just took a serious dive.

Such is the weight of your sins that you can never be found worthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven. As Jesus said in John 14:6 "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If you don't have the forgiveness that only Jesus can offer, then the best you can hope for is to be cast into Hell and destroyed, as is mentioned in Revelation 21:8. You can't pretend that you have no knowledge of the law as Paul spoke of in Romans 2. You know the law and you've rejected the law. You were offered salvation and you scoffed at it.

This is what is written in the Scriptures; not that you give merit to the written word of God. This is what the Lord says is the consequence to sin; not what I or any other has made up or contrived.

So, in other words, and without all the qualifiers of your bible quotes and the Ray Comfort routine, you agree to what you initially objected to in the post that triggered me to ask you this question: non-believers burn in hell, no matter what.

Why are you so reluctant to simply state this? Why do you need several paragraphes of making excuses, quoting ancient books etc, while you could have simply answered my original question with 3 words: "burn in hell"?

I'll answer for you, because I think I know the answer: you're ashamed. You know very well that simple unbelief of claims that aren't supported by evidence is not deserving of eternal punishment.

So you need to make up excuses and obfuscate the whole thing. You need to engage in apologetics.

But you know very well that this is not a fair or just consequence of not believing something on faith alone.

In fact, I'll state right here, right now that NO CRIME is deserving of ETERNAL punishment. There is NO CONTEXT in which eternal torture is justified.

And your looooong responses to my simple question, that you could have answered with just 3 words, are a sign that you in fact agree with me on that point.

Don't you?

Here's the thing though (assuming christianity is true)...
Either an atheist can get into paradise or he can't.
If he can't, logically he ends up in hell instead.

So we have 2 options:
1. they CAN get to heaven: in which case your religion is irrelevant
2. they can NOT get to heaven: in which case your religion is unfair, unjust and quite frankly: rather evil.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Computer generated. Awesome.

It's called a 3d scanner, Zweistein.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What makes them Christians?

Belief in christ and the god of the bible.

 

[BL2KTN]

Toolmanjantzi is obviously away somewhere cutting off parts of his body lest he sin with them.

 

[KWCrazy]

.. your bible clearly can be interpreted in any way you see fit for the point you're trying to make.

That's why I post passages, not verses out of context. A simple phrase can be twisted, a complete passage gives context.

Then your religion is irrelevant.

No, it means that God is just. How can a person living in a remote region untouched by modern civilization who has never heard the word of God be damned for rejecting it? He won't, as these passages demonstrate. He will be judged outside of the law according to his own heart. This takes away the argument from the unsaved that God is unjust because he condemns people who were never offered salvation.

Off course there is.

That depends on your definition of "good." If you deny the existence of good and evil you can't very well categorize yourself according to those definitions. If good means "Godly," then certainly atheists are ungodly. You have to have a standard for good and evil before you can make that distinction. What standard does an atheist use?

Ow, great.... The Ray "banana man" Comfort routine...

Ray Comfort is known for it, but he's only stating the obvious. Without a mechanism for forgiveness your sins follow you forever, and the weight of your own sins will keep you from Heaven.

I hope you realise that by engaging in this nonsense, your credibility - in my eyes at least - just took a serious dive.

Nonsense? Explain to us how the least of your sins will ever be forgiven.

Well....?

This should be good.

So, in other words, and without all the qualifiers of your bible quotes and the Ray Comfort routine, you agree to what you initially objected to in the post that triggered me to ask you this question: non-believers burn in hell, no matter what.

The qualifier is that there is a difference between those who reject the truth and those who were never offered the truth. No man comes to God but through Jesus; no Muslim, no Buddhist, and no atheist. Some will be destroyed. Some will be eternally damned. Some will be cast aside to outer darkness. Will you go to heaven? No chance. Will you go to Hell? Probably. Only God knows your heart and only God decides with what measure you will be judged. The Scriptures bear out that there are alternatives, but I wouldn't bet my eternal fate on finding a loophole.

Why do you need several paragraphs of making excuses, quoting ancient books etc, while you could have simply answered my original question with 3 words: "burn in hell"?

Even "burn in Hell" isn't universal, because some will be consumed in the Hell fire and some will burn for all eternity. There's also a question of whether coming to the Father means being in His presence or being in any portion of Heaven. Could a devout Jew go to Heaven and yet not be in the presence of the father? Such specifics are not given in what I've read.

In fact, I'll state right here, right now that NO CRIME is deserving of ETERNAL punishment. There is NO CONTEXT in which eternal torture is justified.

The soul of man is designed to be eternal. Hell is the total absence of God; the antithesis of Heaven. If you remove yourself from God in life, you will either be destroyed or you will be apart from God for eternity. God sent His son to die for your sins. You reject His son and call the Creator a "Flying Spaghetti Monster."

Why would God want such a person in His presence?

All sin is rebellion. There is no place for rebellion in Heaven.

And your looooong responses to my simple question, that you could have answered with just 3 words, are a sign that you in fact agree with me on that point.

No, I wish to accurately repeat what the Scriptures say about the subject, not interject my own potentially incorrect assumptions.

So can an atheist get to Heaven? It's probably easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
So does he go to Hell? Probably, but Hell is a place of destruction as well as eternal torment. He reaps what he sows.