Why does Christ tell the churches he's coming "soon" in Revelation?

[squint]

It is very interesting that Christ says at the end of the book of Revelation that he is coming soon (or quickly) three times (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20).

We also know that some renditions are 'quickly' not 'soon' so there is no need to overemphasize 'soon' as TIME and not SPEED.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Achilles6129

I'd like you to consider the following passages:
​

Just what it says, He was coming soon and as you picked up it was in judgment in 70 AD

Originally Posted by pshun2404

Soon is a relative term....how long is a day or two to the Lord?
​

Originally Posted by Jipsah

So once again, the response is that "soon" didn't really mean anything at all in that context. Reckon why He said it at all, then?
​

Originally Posted by Achilles6129

It is very interesting that Christ says at the end of the book of Revelation that he is coming soon (or quickly) three times (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20).
​

We also know that some renditions are 'quickly' not 'soon' so there is no need to overemphasize 'soon' as TIME and not SPEED.

Revelation uses both and I put up the greek words for each of them.

There are also different forms of those greek words used in the NT, so it is best just to look up each of those to get a better understanding of the meaning, IMHO.
Hope this helps......

Romans 16:20
The yet God of the Peace shall be crushing the Satan under the feet of ye in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>........................

Revelation 1:1
An-un-covering/veiling of Jesus Christ, which YAHWEH gives to Him to show to His bond-servants, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>...........
3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written,
for the Time is NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Revelation 22:6
And said to me: "These, the Words Faithful and True.
And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets, commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of this Scroll,
that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is" [Revelation 1:1,3]

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

1722. en en a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),
5034. tachos takh'-os from the same as 5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.quickly (without delay)
5036. tachus takh-oos' of uncertain affinity; fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

1451. eggus eng-goos' from a primary verb agcho (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of 43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):--from , at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

I thought a song by the band "The Time" was appropriate.......


Morris Day - Jungle Love (Live at BB Kings NYC) July 13, 2012 - YouTube


.

 

[Achilles6129]

We also know that some renditions are 'quickly' not 'soon' so there is no need to overemphasize 'soon' as TIME and not SPEED.

Unfortunately, Christ uses the same term at the end of Revelation as he does when he addresses the seven churches. E.G.:

KJV Search Results for "quickly"

Behold, G2400 I come G2064 quickly: G5035 hold that fast G2902 which G3739 thou hast, G2192 that G2443 no man G3367 take G2983 thy G4675 crown. G4735
(Rev. 3:11)

He which testifieth G3140 these things G5023 saith, G3004 Surely G3483 I come G2064 quickly. G5035 Amen. G281 Even so, G3483 come, G2064 Lord G2962 Jesus. G2424
(Rev. 22:20)

Greek Lexicon :: G5035 (NASB)

 

[squint]

Unfortunately, Christ uses the same term at the end of Revelation as he does when he addresses the seven churches. E.G.:

KJV Search Results for "quickly"

Behold, G2400 I come G2064 quickly: G5035 hold that fast G2902 which G3739 thou hast, G2192 that G2443 no man G3367 take G2983 thy G4675 crown. G4735
(Rev. 3:11)

He which testifieth G3140 these things G5023 saith, G3004 Surely G3483 I come G2064 quickly. G5035 Amen. G281 Even so, G3483 come, G2064 Lord G2962 Jesus. G2424
(Rev. 22:20)

Greek Lexicon :: G5035 (NASB)

Quickly can just as easily relate to speed.

Matthew 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Quickly can just as easily relate to speed.

Matthew 24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That word is used only in the Gospels [5 times] and Revelation [4 times] and appears to be a form of the greek word for "star"....

Greek Lexicon :: G796 (NKJV)
Strong's Number G796 matches the Greek &#7936;&#963;&#964;&#961;&#945;&#960;&#8053; (astrap&#275;),
which occurs 9 times in 9 verses in the Greek concordance

Matthew 24:27
"For so as the lightning/astraph <796> is coming forth from east and is appearing till of west
thus shall be [also] the Parousia of the Son of the Man.

That word is also used at this pretty awsome event at the tomb of Jesus:

Matthew 28:
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the LORD descended from heaven,
and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
3 His countenance was like lightning/astraph <796>, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.

796. astrape as-trap-ay' from 797; lightning; by analogy, glare:--lightning, bright shining.
797. astrapto as-trap'-to probably from 792; to flash as lightning:--lighten, shine.
792. aster as-tare' probably from the base of 4766; a star (as strown over the sky), literally or figuratively:--star.


/

 

[A New World]

Unfortunately, Christ uses the same term at the end of Revelation as he does when he addresses the seven churches. E.G.:

KJV Search Results for "quickly"

Behold, G2400 I come G2064 quickly: G5035 hold that fast G2902 which G3739 thou hast, G2192 that G2443 no man G3367 take G2983 thy G4675 crown. G4735
(Rev. 3:11)

He which testifieth G3140 these things G5023 saith, G3004 Surely G3483 I come G2064 quickly. G5035 Amen. G281 Even so, G3483 come, G2064 Lord G2962 Jesus. G2424
(Rev. 22:20)

Greek Lexicon :: G5035 (NASB)

The problem with this line of reasoning, IMHO, is the failure to consider or understand the timing of the events of Revelation. To say all John was referring to was the speed at which the events would occur once they begin misses the context.

John very specifically gave the direct and unambiguous statement, "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near." (Revelation&#8236; 1&#8236;:3&#8236

He repeated the time statement at the end of the book: "And he said to me, &#8220;Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time near." (Revelation&#8236; 22&#8236;:10&#8236

How can anyone claim the end was not near for John and his audiences when he informed them that the appointed time was near?

 

[squint]

The problem with this line of reasoning, IMHO, is the failure to consider or understand the timing of the events of Revelation. To say all John was referring to was the speed at which the events would occur once they begin misses the context.

John very specifically gave the direct and unambiguous statement, "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near." (Revelation&#8236; 1&#8236;:3&#8236

He repeated the time statement at the end of the book: "And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time near." (Revelation&#8236; 22&#8236;:10&#8236

How can anyone claim the end was not near for John and his audiences when he informed them that the appointed time was near?

Time in allegorical terms does not mean time in calendar/clock terms.

Time in general is depicted many ways and with many terms and conditions.

Preterism, which is largely false, stems from making that error.

IF for example we were to examine Satan's existence do you think time on a calendar/clock would really mean anything? A being that has been on/in earth for 6000 years or so and perhaps longer prior is on a different schedule than ours.

 

[Achilles6129]

The problem with this line of reasoning, IMHO, is the failure to consider or understand the timing of the events of Revelation. To say all John was referring to was the speed at which the events would occur once they begin misses the context.

John very specifically gave the direct and unambiguous statement, "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near." (Revelation&#8236; 1&#8236;:3&#8236

He repeated the time statement at the end of the book: "And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time near." (Revelation&#8236; 22&#8236;:10&#8236

How can anyone claim the end was not near for John and his audiences when he informed them that the appointed time was near?

You make a very good point. I would also like to point out, however, that the 1000 years of Revelation 20 are considered part of that "time is near" statement. So if a 1000-year span is considered near, then perhaps 1900+ years isn't that long of a time after all

This goes back to what I've been saying: time is relative (see Einstein's general theory of relativity). When the book of Revelation says the time is "near" it is speaking from God's point of view on time.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Time in allegorical terms does not mean time in calendar/clock terms.

Time in general is depicted many ways and with many terms and conditions.

Preterism, which is largely false, stems from making that error.

.

That is of course debatable and why this thread should be on the Eschatology board me thinks.

Btw, the Amill doctrine [of which the RCC ascribes to] is considered an "orthodox" view, even tho they view Revelation chapts 1-19 as fulfilled and that we are now and have been, in that 1000yr period and therefore, the parousia of Jesus, mentioned in Matthew 24 and the Epistles, comes after that period ends.

It is about as close to being Full/Hyper Preterism one can get....IMHO

http://www.christianforums.com/t7522417-75/#post56413148
Amillennialism blown away by Revelation 20

..............

The amillennial viewpoint suggests that the 1000 years is just a really long time that the entire church has been in for the last 2000 years but John's Revelation makes it clear that the 1000 years is yet future and literal.......

Interesting.

Then why isn't that doctrine viewed as "unorthodox/heretical" here on CF

You'd have to ask the administrators that question.
I didn't realize what it was, myself, until someone came along preaching it on this forum, and I had to look it up outside of Scripture to understand what he was talking about.

.

 

[A New World]

Time in allegorical terms does not mean time in calendar/clock terms.

Time in general is depicted many ways and with many terms and conditions.

Preterism, which is largely false, stems from making that error.

IF for example we were to examine Satan's existence do you think time on a calendar/clock would really mean anything? A being that has been on/in earth for 6000 years or so and perhaps longer prior is on a different schedule than ours.

Notice that God gave "the Revelation of Jesus" "to show His servants," "the seven churches," what was "about to take place," "for the time is near:"

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. John, to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will [mello-are about to] take place after this." (Revelation&#8236; 1&#8236;:1, 3-4, 19&#8236; NKJV)

The context is not God speaking to God, He was not writing to Satan, He was speaking directly to man. He told His servants "the appointed time (kairos) is near."

You make a very good point. I would also like to point out, however, that the 1000 years of Revelation 20 are considered part of that "time is near" statement. So if a 1000-year span is considered near, then perhaps 1900+ years isn't that long of a time after all

This goes back to what I've been saying: time is relative (see Einstein's general theory of relativity). When the book of Revelation says the time is "near" it is speaking from God's point of view on time.

The term "thousand years" appears in the midst of other figurative terms. "The key of the bottomless pit," the "great chain in his hand," "the dragon," "the old serpent," "the seal on him," "the beast," "the mark on their forehead and their hand," etc. should not be taken literally. Since these audiences knew the time was near, they also knew the thousand years were not to be taken literally.

However, when John expressed to his audience the coming of Christ he did so in the context of the imminent timing of the events. The word for time (kairos) in Rev. 1:3 & 22:10, is "the appointed time." His audiences had been told many times and in many ways that the end of the age was upon them, it was about to be, it was near, shortly and soon.

IMHO the best way to interpret Revelation is to see all of the prophesied events from the time statements in chapter one to those in chapter twenty two as occurring within their generation just as Jesus said. (Mt. 24:34)

 

[Jipsah]

Time in allegorical terms does not mean time in calendar/clock terms.

And once again this is the argument that says that when the Revelation says "soon", "at hand", or "near", that it actually means nothing at all because it refers to time references that are meaningless to us.

Kinda like engineers' understanding of time and that of people to whom those engineers have promised stuff. The user may understand "real soon now" to mean "while you're still young enough to care", but the engineer may mean it as "probably won't take long if it gets approved and we get it scheduled and it gets a high enough priority and the y'all haven't gone away and bought another product that already had that feature." In fact, the engineers' response has no actual meaning for the user, and is generally just said to get 'em off the phone.

So are we to believe that God is tell us that something is gonna happen "real soon now", just like the engineers do? Such wow!

Preterism, which is largely false, stems from making that error.

The idea of believing that the Bible actually means what it says? Hmmm...

IF for example we were to examine Satan's existence do you think time on a calendar/clock would really mean anything?

No, and neither would a typewriter or an autogyro. But if the question being asked is "when", then the calendar and the clock become altogether pertinent.

A being that has been on/in earth for 6000 years or so and perhaps longer prior is on a different schedule than ours.

If that being wants us to know when something is gonna happen, he'd better say it in terms that make sense to us. Otherwise it's just noise.

 

[Lady Bug]

They said the End Times were coming soon and it's been 2000 years and nothing happened.

 

[squint]

And once again this is the argument that says that when the Revelation says "soon", "at hand", or "near", that it actually means nothing at all because it refers to time references that are meaningless to us.

OR, as pointed out, there are other 'legitimate' sights. Sorry you missed them.

Kinda like engineers' understanding of time and that of people to whom those engineers have promised stuff. The user may understand "real soon now" to mean "while you're still young enough to care", but the engineer may mean it as "probably won't take long if it gets approved and we get it scheduled and it gets a high enough priority and the y'all haven't gone away and bought another product that already had that feature." In fact, the engineers' response has no actual meaning for the user, and is generally just said to get 'em off the phone.

Said nothing of that sort, but whatever.

It's good to keep in mind that nearly the entirety of Revelation is delivered in allegory type. That also means the scriptures give 'rules' on how to get through that purposefully blocked out presentation.

The scriptures contain multiple story lines layered over each others. It puts out a fleshly surface view for baiting the readers. But the more interesting accounts are overlayed, sometimes even in plain sight, yet they remain unseen.

It's quite fascinating to say the least.

So are we to believe that God is tell us that something is gonna happen "real soon now", just like the engineers do? Such wow!

The idea of believing that the Bible actually means what it says? Hmmm...

I would never promote such an idea. It's much more interesting than that. Literalists are purposefully blocked out from understandings. And a main sub theme of the text is that mankind carries another party in our own flesh that will buck and fight to NOT see beyond the surface matters.

So, yeah. It's uh, a little more interesting than picking up a Ray Bradbury novel.

s

 

[squint]

Notice that God gave "the Revelation of Jesus" "to show His servants," "the seven churches," what was "about to take place," "for the time is near:"

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. John, to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will [mello-are about to] take place after this." (Revelation&#8236; 1&#8236;:1, 3-4, 19&#8236; NKJV)

The context is not God speaking to God, He was not writing to Satan, He was speaking directly to man. He told His servants "the appointed time (kairos) is near."

As noted prior the term 'time' in most scripture applications has zero to do with time on a clock or 'our' calendar.

Secondly, if anyone reads the messages to the seven churches and missed the fact that the works of Satan and his messengers are ripening in the churches what can I say but the obvious ran right by them.

That is why we are advised to 'listen' maybe?

There are many specifically designed statements in the text that are meant to draw special attentions to the details. Revelation is filled with such highlights. If for example you read about the works of Satan in those churches and do not take firsthand application to that sole fact, you will also in fact miss at least 1/2 the account of Revelation.

The account is primarily about the forthcoming destruction of Satan and his messengers.

The term "thousand years" appears in the midst of other figurative terms. "The key of the bottomless pit," the "great chain in his hand," "the dragon," "the old serpent," "the seal on him," "the beast," "the mark on their forehead and their hand," etc. should not be taken literally.

One can accept the fact of a 'literal' devil and also understand that the devil is a wicked/evil/anti-Christ spirit, meaning nobody is going to SEE them.

Since these audiences knew the time was near, they also knew the thousand years were not to be taken literally.

I would agree that the thousand years was not a literal thousand years. As to the balance of the statement I'd suggest you're guessing that they knew it was not meant to be taken literally. Most of the audience of the church members obviously 'had issues.' What they knew or didn't know is debatable. Some were very much blinded. And ALL were blinded in part.

However, when John expressed to his audience the coming of Christ he did so in the context of the imminent timing of the events. The word for time (kairos) in Rev. 1:3 & 22:10, is "the appointed time." His audiences had been told many times and in many ways that the end of the age was upon them, it was about to be, it was near, shortly and soon.

IMHO the best way to interpret Revelation is to see all of the prophesied events from the time statements in chapter one to those in chapter twenty two as occurring within their generation just as Jesus said. (Mt. 24:34)

Just as time does not mean time, generation has nothing to do with the people who were alive when that term was penned.

Sorry. No offense meant.

s

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As noted prior the term 'time' in most scripture applications has zero to do with time on a clock or 'our' calendar...........

Just as time does not mean time, generation has nothing to do with the people who were alive when that term was penned.

Sorry. No offense meant.

s

There is another word used for "time" in Revelation....

Greek Lexicon :: G5550 (KJV)
Strong's Number G5550 matches the Greek &#967;&#961;&#8057;&#957;&#959;&#962; (chronos),
which occurs 53 times in 53 verses in the Greek concordance

Rev 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the land, and the things that therein are, and the sea and the things which are therein,
that there should be time G5550 no longer:

Daniel 12:7
And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens,
and sweareth by Him who is living to the age that `After a time/' 04150 mow`ed, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.


.

 

[Achilles6129]

They said the End Times were coming soon and it's been 2000 years and nothing happened.

Who said the end times were coming soon? The early church?

 

[Achilles6129]

There is another word used for "time" in Revelation....

Greek Lexicon :: G5550 (KJV)
Strong's Number G5550 matches the Greek &#967;&#961;&#8057;&#957;&#959;&#962; (chronos),
which occurs 53 times in 53 verses in the Greek concordance

Rev 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the land, and the things that therein are, and the sea and the things which are therein,
that there should be time G5550 no longer:

Daniel 12:7
And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens,
and sweareth by Him who is living to the age that `After a time/' 04150 mow`ed, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.


.

Very interesting. So I guess we're back to our original question: why the stress on imminency in Revelation?

 

[SolomonVII]

They said the End Times were coming soon and it's been 2000 years and nothing happened.

I have always felt that that is a very relevant point that Christians have had to come to terms with.

 

[A New World]

As noted prior the term 'time' in most scripture applications has zero to do with time on a clock or 'our' calendar.

I think John used the word 'kairos,' appointed time, to communicate that concept to his immediate audiences.

Secondly, if anyone reads the messages to the seven churches and missed the fact that the works of Satan and his messengers are ripening in the churches what can I say but the obvious ran right by them.

John wrote to existing churches which were made up of living people. He wrote during a time of tribulation, an experience he shared with his audiences (Rev. 1:9). Don't be misled by the word "satan." It simply means "adversary" in many contexts including Rev. 2:9. Old Covenant Israel had become the "adversary" persecuting God's New Covenant Israel.

That is why we are advised to 'listen' maybe?

No, they were advised to 'listen.' John's messages were relevant to them.

There are many specifically designed statements in the text that are meant to draw special attentions to the details. Revelation is filled with such highlights. If for example you read about the works of Satan in those churches and do not take firsthand application to that sole fact, you will also in fact miss at least 1/2 the account of Revelation.

Again, as noted above, OC Israel had become the adversary (satan) of God's true people. Since Revelation is about the judgment of the harlot, OC Israel, it is about the works of satan in the last days. The context is the end of the age which arrived in AD 70.

The account is primarily about the forthcoming destruction of Satan and his messengers.

Amen! Forthcoming for them anyway!

Just as time does not mean time, generation has nothing to do with the people who were alive when that term was penned.

I believe John clearly expressed the appointed time for OC Israel's destruction was imminent and AD 70 proved him a reliable, true prophet.

When Jesus told His audience that their generation would not pass away before the end of the age, I take Him at His Word. Later, James confirmed His Word in a parallel passage (James 5:7-9).

Sorry. No offense meant.

No problem, no offense taken.

God bless!

 

[Lollerskates]

I'd like you to consider the following passages:

"16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." Rev. 2:16 (NIV)

"24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’" Rev. 2:24-25 (NIV)

The above passage is extremely interesting because Christ is clearly talking personally to the historical church of Thyatira (though it may also represent the church universal) due to the fact that he has personal things to say to that church that could only apply to it historically. Yet here he is telling the church to hold on until he comes. This is a very interesting passage.

"3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you." Rev. 3:3 (NIV)

"11I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown." Rev. 3:11 (NIV)

Exactly what "coming" is Christ referring to? Several of the passages (Rev. 3:11, Rev. 2:24-25) seem to be referring to his second coming, though the others might be able to be taken has a coming in judgment or something like that. We then have the fact that at the end of the book of Revelation Christ clearly says he is coming soon (Rev. 22:12). Regardless, the passages are perplexing.

Thoughts?

Well, if He is the first successful Spirit embodied in Human form, the He would follow primary Spiritual time. So, one thousand, two thousand, three thousand years is literally days for Him - i.e. soon.. You see this in your common Sci-Fi movies: the crew travels around universal quadrants at warp/light speed for a few years only to come back to home base and find several decades have passed.

It may take a "time, time and half a time" for Christ to prepare Heaven, and subvert His enemies so that when He comes back with Heaven descending on Earth, there will be no impurity about it. The resurrection is a consequence of His coming, as He categorically destroys evil with His presence alone, and supremely preserves holiness.

Men are supposed to court a woman, and then marry once he has prepared a place that is [more than] suitable for both of them, and their children, to live. Then, he gets the Father of the Bride's blessing, and with that blessing, proceeds with the ceremony. During the time of preparation and blessing, the bride is anxiously awaiting both the Groom and her Father's approval (and setting up of the wedding.) It is Cultural, and biblical.

What happened with Adam and Eve? God gave Adam a planet, gave him a job, then once Adam was establish and proved, he was awarded (with the blessing of God) with a mate. But, Eve was always part of Adam; they did not get to experience each other in unity until Adam showed he could handle that. Christ has obviously shown He can handle "that," and God has blessed His union with the Bride/Church. Right now, we are in the phase where God is "sorting out invitations, registry, etc." That is why only He knows when the moment of the ceremony happens because, by tradition, the Father takes care of the wedding details.