Important Facts about Evolution

[Subduction Zone]

I think that the God of the bible-- Jesus is what God usually refers to here. If he exists, then Al went on to the other side.

Jesus defined sleep as what we think of as death. Not a terribly controversial issue.

Yes, we know what you think. You also have failed to support that belief with either the Bible or with other evidence.

And of course Jesus was wrong there.

 

[bhsmte]

You are entitled to be wrong.

You are better at that than anyone dad.

 

[dad]

And of course Jesus was wrong there.

Heaven disagrees. So I guess to hell with what anyone else claims.

 

[AV1611VET]

Heaven disagrees. So I guess to hell with what anyone else claims.

CHA-CHING!
​

 

[Subduction Zone]

Heaven disagrees. So I guess to hell with what anyone else claims.

No, heaven does not disagree. In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God. It could be attributed to an error by the writers. There are quite few self contradictions in the Bible. Do you think that those would be the only mistakes in it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

CHA-CHING!
​

Seriously? An idiotic post gets that much of a positive response from you?

That does not say to much for either of you.

 

[USincognito]

How did this thread go from Important Facts about Evolution to some of you responding to AV and dad's tangential trolling?

Why is it so hard to ignore them and stick to the topic?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

No, heaven does not disagree. In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God. It could be attributed to an error by the writers. There are quite few self contradictions in the Bible. Do you think that those would be the only mistakes in it?

What do you mean by "if Jesus was really who he said he is"?

 

[toolmanjantzi]

1. Evolution never excludes the existence of gods. In fact, the theory just never mentions them. Regardless as to how you feel it is in regards to how you interpret religious texts, evolution doesn't require gods to not exist, nor does it make any claims about them. Evolution and religion are as compatible with religion as one is willing to let them be. 2. Universal common decent is an entirely different theory than evolution. True, they are closely related, but if universal common decent was falsified, evolution wouldn't be as evolution doesn't require universal common decent to be true in order for evolution to be valid. Same goes with abiogenesis. 3. You can believe a deity guides evolution all you like. But unless you provide evidence that deities themselves exist, you shouldn't expect to make atheists like myself believe that to be the case, as one can easily argue evolution itself would have no apparent differences guided or not. It just leads to a dead end argument laden with opinions that goes nowhere. 4. You cannot legitimately consider "microevolution" to occur and not "macroevolution", both processes work by the exact same means, the only difference being that macroevolution measures it over longer periods of time. There isn't a single mechanism that prevents more and more mutations from building up in populations across generations until the newest generation no longer resembles the oldest. To claim microevolution occurs but macroevolution doesn't is like claiming people can age until they are a day older, and yet they can't age twenty years, despite that you are agreeing that they age every day a little within those twenty years. 5. Expecting to be able to observe evolution on the scale of humans splitting from chimpanzee evolution all the way to modern humans directly within a human lifespan is as unrealistic as expecting to flap your arms and fly. It takes millions of years, with some variation in time depending on the environment and other factors which impact evolution. Humans just don't live long enough to see big changes like that in most cases. The only things which reproduce fast enough for us to see changes like that are organisms such as bacteria, and for reasons I don't personally get, creationists just wave them off. 6. Evolution isn't a religion, people need to just get over it. Just because you feel it doesn't fit your religion and people are willing to defend evolution against religious arguments doesn't make it a religion. It doesn't guide our lives, it isn't a philosophy, it is about as much of a religion as gravity. I challenge someone to defend the idea that supporting the theory of gravity is a religion. 7. Evolutionary theory has changed over the years, mostly new knowledge has been added. This in no way hurts its validity. Correcting past mistakes in fact helps to make it more valid. Will it change more in the future? Probably a bit, sure, but assuming that these changes will make the theory as we currently use it pointless is invalid. You can argue with these points all you like, claim they are wrong all you like, but these are the facts, and denying them is essentially choosing to remain ignorant about the theory.

Evolution, or whatever scientific beginning you believe in, requires One Force. Can you explain that the Force you believe in is not God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How did this thread go from Important Facts about Evolution to some of you responding to AV and dad's tangential trolling?

Why is it so hard to ignore them and stick to the topic?

Sorry, trying to correct some of the errors of dad and AV.

 

[dad]

No, heaven does not disagree.

You truly believe in heaven????

In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God. It could be attributed to an error by the writers. There are quite few self contradictions in the Bible. Do you think that those would be the only mistakes in it?

Jesus is my Friend. I do not countenance people that badmouth Him.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You truly believe in heaven????








Jesus is my Friend. I do not countenance people that badmouth Him.

No one has bad mouthed Jesus. And no, I do not believe in heaven. Since it does not exist it cannot agree with anyone.

 

[Subduction Zone]

dad, pointing out that the Biblical Jesus was probably some made up stories is not bad mouthing him.

Is pointing out that the Paul Bunyan stories are myth bad mouthing Paul and Babe?

 

[dad]

No one has bad mouthed Jesus.

If He was not who He siad He was He would be a liar. You said this " In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God."

And no, I do not believe in heaven. Since it does not exist it cannot agree with anyone.

How do you know it does not exist?? You think what you happen to believe in determines universal reality? You said this "No, heaven does not disagree." Now you tell us that something that does not exist in your mind disagrees??

 

[Subduction Zone]

If He was not who He siad He was He would be a liar. You said this " In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God."[/quopte]

And? Did you have a point there?

How do you know it does not exist?? You think what you happen to believe in determines universal reality? You said this "No, heaven does not disagree." Now you tell us that something that does not exist in your mind disagrees??

There is no reasonable evidence for heaven. Do you believe in things that there is no reasonable evidence for? Do you believe in Russell's Magic Teapot? There is no evidence of that either.

 

[dad]

If He was not who He siad He was He would be a liar. You said this " In fact if Jesus was really who he said he is that is only more evidence that the Bible is not the word of God."[/quopte]

And? Did you have a point there?

Yes. Jesus is not a liar. Do not accuse Him of not being who He said He was.

There is no reasonable evidence for heaven.

You are not the decider of reason. Heaven is as certain as death and taxes. More so.

Do you believe in things that there is no reasonable evidence for? Do you believe in Russell's Magic Teapot? There is no evidence of that either.

Important facts about evolution do not include what you believe about this or that. Well, I guess that is all the facts evolution has...foolish belief. Got anything else?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes. Jesus is not a liar. Do not accuse Him of not being who He said He was.

I did not say that Jesus is a liar. Logic fail on your part.

You are not the decider of reason. Heaven is as certain as death and taxes. More so.

Nope, that is only what you hop[e for and truly do not believe.

And I would be a better decider of reason than you could ever be. You let your prejudices overrule your reason to often.

Important facts about evolution do not include what you believe about this or that. Well, I guess that is all the facts evolution has...foolish belief. Got anything else?

No, evolution has extremely strong evidence for it.

See, I told you that your prejudice overrules your reason.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

1. Evolution never excludes the existence of gods. In fact, the theory just never mentions them. Regardless as to how you feel it is in regards to how you interpret religious texts, evolution doesn't require gods to not exist, nor does it make any claims about them. Evolution and religion are as compatible with religion as one is willing to let them be. 2. Universal common decent is an entirely different theory than evolution. True, they are closely related, but if universal common decent was falsified, evolution wouldn't be as evolution doesn't require universal common decent to be true in order for evolution to be valid. Same goes with abiogenesis. 3. You can believe a deity guides evolution all you like. But unless you provide evidence that deities themselves exist, you shouldn't expect to make atheists like myself believe that to be the case, as one can easily argue evolution itself would have no apparent differences guided or not. It just leads to a dead end argument laden with opinions that goes nowhere. 4. You cannot legitimately consider "microevolution" to occur and not "macroevolution", both processes work by the exact same means, the only difference being that macroevolution measures it over longer periods of time. There isn't a single mechanism that prevents more and more mutations from building up in populations across generations until the newest generation no longer resembles the oldest. To claim microevolution occurs but macroevolution doesn't is like claiming people can age until they are a day older, and yet they can't age twenty years, despite that you are agreeing that they age every day a little within those twenty years. 5. Expecting to be able to observe evolution on the scale of humans splitting from chimpanzee evolution all the way to modern humans directly within a human lifespan is as unrealistic as expecting to flap your arms and fly. It takes millions of years, with some variation in time depending on the environment and other factors which impact evolution. Humans just don't live long enough to see big changes like that in most cases. The only things which reproduce fast enough for us to see changes like that are organisms such as bacteria, and for reasons I don't personally get, creationists just wave them off. 6. Evolution isn't a religion, people need to just get over it. Just because you feel it doesn't fit your religion and people are willing to defend evolution against religious arguments doesn't make it a religion. It doesn't guide our lives, it isn't a philosophy, it is about as much of a religion as gravity. I challenge someone to defend the idea that supporting the theory of gravity is a religion. 7. Evolutionary theory has changed over the years, mostly new knowledge has been added. This in no way hurts its validity. Correcting past mistakes in fact helps to make it more valid. Will it change more in the future? Probably a bit, sure, but assuming that these changes will make the theory as we currently use it pointless is invalid. You can argue with these points all you like, claim they are wrong all you like, but these are the facts, and denying them is essentially choosing to remain ignorant about the theory.

Evolution, or whatever scientific beginning you believe in, requires One Force. Can you explain that the Force you believe in is not God?

 

[Strathos]

Evolution, or whatever scientific beginning you believe in, requires One Force. Can you explain that the Force you believe in is not God?

This question is basically changing the subject entirely.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evolution, or whatever scientific beginning you believe in, requires One Force. Can you explain that the Force you believe in is not God?

Actually there are two major forces behind evolution. Neither of them is God.

They are variation (which includes both mutation and the recombination of genes from sexual reproduction) and natural selection. The first introduces both new genes and new combinations of genes, the second weeds out the genes and combinations that do not work.

Pretty cool, huh? An observed process gets rid of the need for God. Just as Isaac Newton brought about an end to Intelligent Falling or IF.