Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[from scratch]

The audience in the scripture wasn't intended to be "mankind" but Jews only. One can talk to any audience and say "man" or "mankind" and it doesn't automatically include those who are not present being spoken to. This fallacy is continued on to also include everyone around the synagogs keeping the Sabbath when in fact only Israel was doing so there.
The proof this "Sabbath made for man" didn't include non Jews is the fact Jesus himself didn't encourage his followers to seek out "mankind" and tell them to keep the Sabbath or even the 10 commandments. We really don't see an interest in "mankind" but only Jews till his death and then that task was thrust upon Paul who didn't equate the Sabbath as a necessity in any form or fashion. If the Sabbath were truly for non Jews then the Jews would have been up to the task to stone to death everyone around them Jew or non Jew, Israeli or non Israeli that broke the Sabbath. We never see God passing sentence on those nations around them regarding any connection to the Sabbath whatsoever..... none.

That's my point exactly. Otherwise Jesus is calling Moses a liar. Such a stance calls into question the whole Book of the Law (Genesis to Deuteronomy).

 

[Sophrosyne]

One has to logically think "why did God have the man who broke the Sabbath stoned to death?" Why did Moses not know that Sabbath breakers were to be executed like this? Did God change his mind suddenly (for those saying God commanded Sabbath keeping from creation) but God didn't punish Sabbath breakers and suddenly decided the Sabbath became MORE important? This doesn't jive with the idea that Sabbath was being kept from the start else God would have let folks (including Moses) know that it was that (deadly) important to begin with. The only logical conclusion we can make is the importance of the Sabbath never changed from the start and the true start of it was when it was included with the Mosaic Law that was when the importance (death penalty for breaking it) was shown.

 

[JacobLaw]

The elephant in the room is: Everything that God requires from men are in His covenants.

Before Moses was given the tablets of stone (words of the covenant), God explained that the Sabbath was given to set His people apart from other nations. His chosen people were the Children of Israel.

The fact that sabbath was an exclussive covenant......Exo 31:16
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

..and the New Testamant proving that Gentile nations were aliens, foreigners and strangers to all of God's covenants.
Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


If sabbath was a covenant, how can you safely say, it was a creation ordinance?

PS. I trust the living word of God over commentary.

I think you made some very good points, I will think about that.

 

[Elder 111]

It's your burden to prove your claims with scriptures. The scriptures that SDA try to manipulate (Gen 2:1-3) is reenforced proving that only God rested on the seventh day.

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
The Seventh day of creation!

 

[Elder 111]

As far as I have been able to understand, there are three passage in scripture that are particularly used to support Sunday keeping by the apostles. These very same passages have instead proven the keeping of God's Holy Sabbath day.

1. Acts 20:7.
2. cor. 16:2
3. Rev. 1:10.

With these nullified, Is there any possible grounds for Sunday worship?

 

[from scratch]

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
The Seventh day of creation!

You'll never make the Sabbath the 7th day of creation no matter how hard you try.

 

[from scratch]

As far as I have been able to understand, there are three passage in scripture that are particularly used to support Sunday keeping by the apostles. These very same passages have instead proven the keeping of God's Holy Sabbath day.

1. Acts 20:7.
2. cor. 16:2
3. Rev. 1:10.

With these nullified, Is there any possible grounds for Sunday worship?

They're neither nullified nor refuted. The mere posting of references does nothing for you in this case. If anything it shows you don't believe what is written in those references.

 

[VictorC]

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
The Seventh day of creation!

Hey, there's a whole half a sentence before that little word "but". Any idea why Elder111 decided to delete half a sentence? Or, why Elder111 ignores the tense of key verbs where they are used? Why, let's have a look at that sentence in its entirety

Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.​

This is an obvious reference to a weekly cycle assigned to the recipients of the Mosaic covenant (which doesn't include the Gentiles in Barbados).
The use of the verb 'is' in the present tense does not extend to God's rest on the seventh day of the creation account; His rest was not a Sabbath.

Such an omission and misuse of a verb to argue for an origin of the Sabbath prior to Moses isn't just incompetence.
Why?
Because Elder111 has seen this before, and chose to ignore it so that he can continue to extract God's rest from all his thoughts.
Elder111 is a transgressor of the very covenant he quoted a half-sentence from, which also says "You shall not bear false witness".

Elder111 is arguing against faith in Jesus Christ our Redeemer, for "we who have believed do enter that rest", which is God's rest as Hebrews 4:1-3 states, and not the periodic Sabbath that shadowed His rest. Elder111's whole rejection of the Law he hopes to entangle the Christian in explains his inability to learn from interaction (aka discussion).

 

[VictorC]

As far as I have been able to understand, there are three passage in scripture that are particularly used to support Sunday keeping by the apostles. These very same passages have instead proven the keeping of God's Holy Sabbath day.

1. Acts 20:7.
2. cor. 16:2
3. Rev. 1:10.

With these nullified, Is there any possible grounds for Sunday worship?

• Go and take this to whatever forum containing people who worship Sunday. This straw man doesn't apply to Biblical Christianity.
• None of these citations -Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Revelation 1:10- have anything to do with keeping either Sunday or Saturday. None. I read them all.

At this juncture, I don't care what you understand when you can't defend the nonsense you keep posting and repeatedly show that you aren't here for discussion.

 

[VictorC]

The fact that sabbath was an exclussive covenant......Exo 31:16
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
...
(since) sabbath was a covenant, how can you safely say it was a creation ordinance?

No one can.
That's why your post languishes in hopes others won't notice the point you brought to the table. It defeats Adventism and every other -ism detracting from the Biblical record.

 

[Cribstyl]

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
The Seventh day of creation!

VictorC made it clear to you that: "The seventh day "IS .... " is relative to present and future seventh days, not to God's creation rest.

We can agree that God is commanding the Children of Israel to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath unto God.

You will alway fail to see what Jesus confirms that it's within this commandment, that
Sabbath is actual being made and tailored for the Children of Isreal (man) and everyone and everything within their borders.

 

[Elder 111]

You'll never make the Sabbath the 7th day of creation no matter how hard you try.

Don't have to! The Lord did!

 

[from scratch]

Don't have to! The Lord did!

ehehehehehawhe!!!

 

[VictorC]

Don't have to! The Lord did!

A Christian quickly grows a natural aversion to speaking things he/she knows to be false, preferring to admit we don't know things we can't document. That doesn't really pertain to this discussion, but it illustrates the nature of the new creation.
In life-sized contrast...
This natural aversion just isn't found in posts proffered by Elder111.

 

[mmksparbud]

And still this fight goes on----amazing how hard people fight to go against the written and spoken word of God! How anyone can say that the Sabbath is not the 7th day of creation week is beyond ludicrous when it is so plain! God did something on that day--, He "rested from all His work which God created and made" He also "sanctified" and "blessed" that one day. He did not sanctify or bless any of the other days--just that one, which would from there be forever called "His day"--"the Lord's Day", His blessing of rest from work--it is His day, but God does not weary, He wasn't tired, He didn't need to rest--argue all you want--to think that His rest means He alone is the one that needs that rest is to not know God. We enter into His rest--we are given this blessing as He has given us all of His creation. His sun, His moon, His firmament, His waters, His land, His animals, His man and woman--His birds--all are His and He gives each of us the blessings of each day of His creation. Without us embracing each and everyone of those days, we make His creation less. Without any one of those days we would not exist--Each day is intertwined with the other all to complete the week--remove one, the whole of "His" creation is lessened. All are His and He has given all to us--ALL.

Throughout the New Testament, many times, the "Judaisers" are referred to as "those of the circumcision"----never, once, not one single time, were those Judaisers referred to as "those Sabbath keepers"--not one single time. It is not a title of shame, as some imply here. I'll take the title, I'll still wear it after the resurrection. Hope to see you all there.

Carry on with this pointless argument against His creation. It is not Sabbath keepers you fight--but Him.

 

[VictorC]

And still this fight goes on----amazing how hard people fight to go against the written and spoken word of God! How anyone can say that the Sabbath is not the 7th day of creation week is beyond ludicrous when it is so plain!

If such a notion were so plain, why can't you find it in Scripture? The Law's testimony is uniform in showing that the Sabbath didn't exist until Moses, when it was first ordained coincident with the manna experience.

God did something on that day--, He "rested from all His work which God created and made" He also "sanctified" and "blessed" that one day. He did not sanctify or bless any of the other days--just that one

When you admit the singularity of God's rest in the over 2.1 million days since creation, it doesn't leave room to repeat His rest. And, His rest didn't repeat - it remains a promise the Sabbath didn't provide.

which would from there be forever called "His day"--"the Lord's Day", His blessing of rest from work--it is His day, but God does not weary, He wasn't tired, He didn't need to rest--argue all you want--to think that His rest means He alone is the one that needs that rest is to not know God. We enter into His rest--we are given this blessing as He has given us all of His creation. His sun, His moon, His firmament, His waters, His land, His animals, His man and woman--His birds--all are His and He gives each of us the blessings of each day of His creation. Without us embracing each and everyone of those days, we make His creation less. Without any one of those days we would not exist--Each day is intertwined with the other all to complete the week--remove one, the whole of "His" creation is lessened. All are His and He has given all to us--ALL.

Throughout the New Testament, many times, the "Judaisers" are referred to as "those of the circumcision"----never, once, not one single time, were those Judaisers referred to as "those Sabbath keepers"--not one single time. It is not a title of shame, as some imply here. I'll take the title, I'll still wear it after the resurrection. Hope to see you all there.

Carry on with this pointless argument against His creation. It is not Sabbath keepers you fight--but Him.

It appears that you admitted God's rest after creation wasn't the Sabbath, which can't be reconciled with your opening claim that it was. It is also impossible to reconcile your claim of "We enter into His rest" concurrent with your retention of the periodic Sabbath shadowing His rest. You can affirm God's redemption, or deny it - but there is no synthesis of this oxymoron.

 

[mmksparbud]

If such a notion were so plain, why can't you find it in Scripture? The Law's testimony is uniform in showing that the Sabbath didn't exist until Moses, when it was first ordained coincident with the manna experience.

When you admit the singularity of God's rest in the over 2.1 million days since creation, it doesn't leave room to repeat His rest. And, His rest didn't repeat - it remains a promise the Sabbath didn't provide.

It appears that you admitted God's rest after creation wasn't the Sabbath, which can't be reconciled with your opening claim that it was. It is also impossible to reconcile your claim of "We enter into His rest" concurrent with your retention of the periodic Sabbath shadowing His rest. You can affirm God's redemption, or deny it - but there is no synthesis of this oxymoron.

The only oxymoron is in your interpretation of the facts.--Have a blessed day.

 

[VictorC]

The only oxymoron is in your interpretation of the facts.--Have a blessed day.

Facts aren't subject to interpretation. Posting this retort doesn't solve the dilemma you proposed with an impossible synthesis of exclusive and contrary entities.

 

[from scratch]

And still this fight goes on----amazing how hard people fight to go against the written and spoken word of God! How anyone can say that the Sabbath is not the 7th day of creation week is beyond ludicrous when it is so plain! God did something on that day--, He "rested from all His work which God created and made" He also "sanctified" and "blessed" that one day. He did not sanctify or bless any of the other days--just that one, which would from there be forever called "His day"--"the Lord's Day", His blessing of rest from work--it is His day, but God does not weary, He wasn't tired, He didn't need to rest--argue all you want--to think that His rest means He alone is the one that needs that rest is to not know God. We enter into His rest--we are given this blessing as He has given us all of His creation. His sun, His moon, His firmament, His waters, His land, His animals, His man and woman--His birds--all are His and He gives each of us the blessings of each day of His creation. Without us embracing each and everyone of those days, we make His creation less. Without any one of those days we would not exist--Each day is intertwined with the other all to complete the week--remove one, the whole of "His" creation is lessened. All are His and He has given all to us--ALL.

Throughout the New Testament, many times, the "Judaisers" are referred to as "those of the circumcision"----never, once, not one single time, were those Judaisers referred to as "those Sabbath keepers"--not one single time. It is not a title of shame, as some imply here. I'll take the title, I'll still wear it after the resurrection. Hope to see you all there.

Carry on with this pointless argument against His creation. It is not Sabbath keepers you fight--but Him.

Did the Judaizers keep the Sabbath and want the new gentile converts to Christianity to do the same?

Its not an argument against creation.

 

[Sophrosyne]

A
Throughout the New Testament, many times, the "Judaisers" are referred to as "those of the circumcision"----never, once, not one single time, were those Judaisers referred to as "those Sabbath keepers"--not one single time. It is not a title of shame, as some imply here. I'll take the title, I'll still wear it after the resurrection. Hope to see you all there.

That is because they wanted all 613 commandments kept which sort of drowns the Sabbath in importance from being 10% of the commandments to 0.16 percent of the commandments. The Sabbath was important to them but the importance isn't nowhere as argued by those here who are on a level of a similar spirit but find themselves as a perversion of a Judaizer in that they pick and choose only a few of the 613 throwing most of them out. I find that these people are neither acting like Christians or Jews they think that somewhere inbetween is correct which IMO has them nowhere in correctness with nobody.

Carry on with this pointless argument against His creation. It is not Sabbath keepers you fight--but Him.

The argument is with the creator and the arguer is you here..... Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath he can do with it as he pleases and he chose to not mention it for Christians to keep.