A question for Old Earth Creationists

[AV1611VET]

Everyone has their own personal beliefs, that is why we have more than 41,000 different Christian denominations, of which each individual has their own relationship with God.

That personal relationship with God is what counts, not how someone else wants you to interpret the bible, which is "man's fallible word", not Gods.

I didn't realize my question was so hard.

I'm sure you'll have some adjectives for us later though.

 

[Oncedeceived]

A literal reading, which I do not subscribe to says God created Heaven and Earth first. Then he made sun, moon and stars. So, according to a literal reading the universe came last. As for Jesus creating everything, no, it was God according to the bible, as Jesus sits at the right hand of God in Heaven.

That is your interpretation of the words written in the Biblical Narrative. I don't interpret it in that way.

So you believe that Jesus is not God, you do not believe in the Trinity?

 

[RickG]

I didn't realize my question was so hard.

I'm sure you'll have some adjectives for us later though.

You got a straight forward answer. Deal with it.

 

[Dizredux]

That is your interpretation of the words written in the Biblical Narrative. I don't interpret it in that way.

So you believe that Jesus is not God, you do not believe in the Trinity?

Once, I hope not but if you are starting into the "Not a True Christian" routine, please don't.

Dizredux

 

[Oncedeceived]

Once, I hope not but if you are starting into the "Not a True Christian" routine, please don't.

Dizredux

Calm down Diz. I am interested in how Rick views his Christianity. I agree that the most important factor in being a Christian is the relationship with God. I just have questions about his statements and since he did make them here in an open forum I think it is appropriate to ask.

 

[Delphiki]

That is your interpretation of the words written in the Biblical Narrative. I don't interpret it in that way.

So you believe that Jesus is not God, you do not believe in the Trinity?

Even when you believe the Trinity, it was still not Jesus who created the universe. Jesus, the Son, is God on earth. Once you try to reason that Jesus created the universe, then by the same reasoning, you assume the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to just be interchangeable terms. You wouldn't say the Holy Spirit died on the cross for your sins, would you?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Even when you believe the Trinity, it was still not Jesus who created the universe. Jesus, the Son, is God on earth. Once you try to reason that Jesus created the universe, then by the same reasoning, you assume the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to just be interchangeable terms. You wouldn't say the Holy Spirit died on the cross for your sins, would you?

5He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

 

[Delphiki]

5He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…

Note the total lack of the name "Jesus" here.

 

[EternalDragon]

Even when you believe the Trinity, it was still not Jesus who created the universe. Jesus, the Son, is God on earth. Once you try to reason that Jesus created the universe, then by the same reasoning, you assume the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to just be interchangeable terms. You wouldn't say the Holy Spirit died on the cross for your sins, would you?

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God created the universe together. They are one and the same. That is what the bible teaches.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Note the total lack of the name "Jesus" here.

5He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Who is the image of the invisible God and firstborn of all creation? Jesus.

 

[Delphiki]

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God created the universe together. They are one and the same. That is what the bible teaches.

Yes. They are "one in the same", but there's a reason there is a Trinity here. The aspects aren't just freely interchangeable.

Ford paved the way for the automotive assembly line in America with the Model T. The Ford Mustang pioneered the concept of the pony car. The Ford F-150 would also become the best selling vehicle in the United States of all time. All three cars are Ford, but we wouldn't say F-150 paved the way for the automotive assembly line. Ford did and the Model T did, but not the Mustang or F-150.

Would you say the Holy Spirit died on the cross?

I can't believe I have to explain Christianity to Christians.

 

[Delphiki]

5He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Who is the image of the invisible God and firstborn of all creation? Jesus.

Does the bible say "Jesus" there?

 

[RickG]

Again, this is not one of the apologetic forums. Just saying.

Still looking for an answer to the OP question.

 

[Delphiki]

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God created the universe together. They are one and the same. That is what the bible teaches.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God.. God.. God... ... Yep.. No mention of the name Jesus yet.

 

[EternalDragon]

Note the total lack of the name "Jesus" here.

You must have missed the verses before where the writer is clearly talking about Jesus. I'm pretty sure Christians have redemption through the blood of Jesus.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God created the universe together. They are one and the same. That is what the bible teaches.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Quote mining the Bible does not support your claim. We do not even know what "the Word" refers to specifically. In fact different sects will probably have different interpretations. Much of the Bible is too vaguely written for concrete interpretations. As a result there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity.

 

[RickG]

Quote mining the Bible does not support your claim. We do not even know what "the Word" refers to specifically. In fact different sects will probably have different interpretations. Much of the Bible is too vaguely written for concrete interpretations. As a result there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity.

Context is a problem as well. I'm sure a good bit of the context has a completely different meaning then than we apply now.

 

[EternalDragon]

God.. God.. God... ... Yep.. No mention of the name Jesus yet.

John was to bare witness of him and he did that with Jesus. He became flesh and dwelt among us. Keep reading John and you will find the name of Jesus. Either your reading comprehension is really off or you are just being extremely obtuse with us.

 

[EternalDragon]

Quote mining the Bible does not support your claim. We do not even know what "the Word" refers to specifically. In fact different sects will probably have different interpretations. Much of the Bible is too vaguely written for concrete interpretations. As a result there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity.

Forgive me then if I don't reply as your words are too vaguely written for me to interpret them. I mean, what does "sect" mean? It could mean anything.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Forgive me then if I don't reply as your words are too vaguely written for me to interpret them. I mean, what does "sect" mean? It could mean anything.

Sorry E.D., I am not falling for your male bovine end product.