Is transgender a lie?

[Armoured]

So that is your criteria for people who suffer from serious disorders? As long as it doesn't affect you than who cares?

Well, hey, homeless people in the street don't affect me either. Neither do cancer victims or people killed in wars. So who cares, right? It doesn't affect me.

Wow. Where do kids your age get this twisted sense of morality from.

Are you suggesting it's immoral to have a mental condition? Silly me for thinking that to be immoral an act required a conscious free choice.

 

[South Bound]

Does a 2 year old have perverted ideas?? That's how old my friends daughter was when her mother realized there was something wrong. The little girl wanted nothing to do with little girl stuff, just boys stuff. The harder the mother tried to interest her i in "girlie" things, like her older sister, the more she rebelled against it. It stayed like that throughout her whole childhood. The girl finally told her mom she always felt she was a boy--which she finally ended up being.

So, because a two year old had gender confusion, that means she should be indulged?

You do realize that gender confusion is very common in small children, particularly little boys, because, in our culture, they tend to only have women caregivers, right?

What about the babies that are born with both sets of genitals--are they perverted in the womb??

That's not transgender. That's a birth defect.

 

[Paradoxum]

So that is your criteria for people who suffer from serious disorders? As long as it doesn't affect you than who cares?

Well, hey, homeless people in the street don't affect me either. Neither do cancer victims or people killed in wars. So who cares, right? It doesn't affect me.

I didn't say I don't care. More like the opposite. My point was that it doesn't affect you, and they want to change their gender, so why complain about it?

Wow. Where do kids your age get this twisted sense of morality from.

I'm an adult, but okay.

 

[Inkfingers]

What if that biology changes? If a person is born female, and becomes male at puberty all through biology what are they?

What if they become a dragon? Or an Ewok?

What about hermaphrodites?

Hermaphrodites are a sex in the same way that a deformed limb is a different kind of limb, or blindness is a different kind of vision.

They are a disability, not a sex; being neither make nor female because they cannot procreate.

What about males that externally are female, but have all the parts internally of a male? Reality doesn't like your attempts to put it in a small narrow niche, reality isn't so clean cut.

Sorry, is there something about "biology of procreation" that you are misunderstanding? The sexes are defined as and by the two complementary roles they play in procreation.

 

[selfinflikted]

This thread is conspicuously lacking some compassion from those who often claim to have the most.

 

[Inkfingers]

This thread is conspicuously lacking some compassion from those who often claim to have the most.

It's a discussion, not a charity. It needs politeness, but compassion is no part of it - as emotion clouds rather than clarifies understanding.

 

[ShouldaWouldaCoulda]

It's a brain disorder and a mental affliction.

I think in about 20 years the AMA and others who enabled the mutilation of perfectly healthy bodies so as to conform to what the individual thought needed to be done to make them feel like the opposite of their biological sex, will recant their diagnosis that that was right all those years ago.

Transsexualism will be understood as a chemical imbalance and a birth defect that has rewired the brain to deny the body, and the Transsufferer will be treated with drugs. Not scalpels and drugs.

I've been told men and women who want to be women and men get operations and take drugs so they look like what they are not born as. Isn't this a lie? Lets say they succeed in not looking like what they were born as and they go meet someone. What then? Do they tell them they can't have children because they have misrepresented themselves or do they live the lie?

 

[South Bound]

This thread is conspicuously lacking some compassion from those who often claim to have the most.

I agree. If those who indulge transgenders truly had compassion on them, they would tell them the truth, share the Gospel with them, and stop indulging them.

But, of course, they don't, because they're more concerned with their own image as "tolerant and accepting" than they are with the well being of transgenders.

 

[Inkachu]

I would say it is a confused and/or unhealthy state of existence, not necessarily a "lie" unless the person intentionally deceives someone into thinking they're a certain gender when they're not (if they date someone without telling them).

 

[Joykins]

My feeling is that while a transgender person does not owe the general public any details about their background, the fact that they are transgender should be disclosed to a potential partner as a dating relationship appears to be headed in a "serious" direction.

 

[Inkfingers]

My feeling is that while a transgender person does not owe the general public any details about their background, the fact that they are transgender should be disclosed to a potential partner as a dating relationship appears to be headed in a "serious" direction.

It should really be disclosed immediately prior to any "date", otherwise it is deception.

 

[Inkachu]

It should really be disclosed immediately prior to any "date", otherwise it is deception.

THIS. Asking someone to go out with you while presenting yourself as a man while you know that, biologically, you're a woman, is definitely deception. It needs to be disclosed up front.

 

[Reeniee]

I would say it is a confused and/or unhealthy state of existence, not necessarily a "lie" unless the person intentionally deceives someone into thinking they're a certain gender when they're not (if they date someone without telling them).

Trans Women are women, and they are female. They are not deceiving people into thinking they are a gender that they are not, because they are female. This is true of Trans Men too. This is true regardless of what if any surgery they have had.

However I agree with your sentiment, that in a romantic environment then this could be something that should be brought up, that an individual is trans, to avoid problems at a further stage of the relationship. It just feels like courtesy I guess. I don't know enough about the details of this kind of thing though, so I'm willing to be educated about it.

In non-romantic (That's probably not the right word, but I hope you know what I mean) settings a trans individual has no requirement or responsibility to inform others of their background, why would they?

 

[abacabb3]

Yes. Am I a Zebra if I think I am, or am I delusional?

 

[Reeniee]

Yes. Am I a Zebra if I think I am, or am I delusional?

What does the overwhelming majority of the medical community say?

 

[Inkachu]

Trans Women are women, and they are female. They are not deceiving people into thinking they are a gender that they are not, because they are female. This is true of Trans Men too. This is true regardless of what if any surgery they have had.

However I agree with your sentiment, that in a romantic environment then this could be something that should be brought up, that an individual is trans, to avoid problems at a further stage of the relationship. It just feels like courtesy I guess. I don't know enough about the details of this kind of thing though, so I'm willing to be educated about it.

In non-romantic (That's probably not the right word, but I hope you know what I mean) settings a trans individual has no requirement or responsibility to inform others of their background, why would they?

I agree that, in a casual or business relationship, it wouldn't really need to be brought into the open, unless the individual chose to.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make with your opening paragraph, but a person's gender is determined by their chromosomes long before birth. XY - male. XX - female. Surgeries and hormone therapies will never change that. If a man decides that he "feels" female and has his penis removed, does he become female? No, he becomes a very troubled man.

 

[PopesFollower]

It's a brain disorder and a mental affliction..........

ding ding ding

Bingo! Give my brother to the north a prize for hitting the nail on the head!

 

[Reeniee]

I agree that, in a casual or business relationship, it wouldn't really need to be brought into the open, unless the individual chose to.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make with your opening paragraph, but a person's gender is determined by their chromosomes long before birth. XY - male. XX - female. Surgeries and hormone therapies will never change that. If a man decides that he "feels" female and has his penis removed, does he become female? No, he becomes a very troubled man.

Gender is a social construct, so that isn't true. Their birth sex is determined by physical factors. Gender however is not. Also, if a Men Transitions and becomes a Trans Women, then yes, they are female. That is exactly how it works. And they don't need their penis removed for this to be the case, this is the case regardless of what, if any, surgery they have had.

 

[Inkachu]

Gender is not a "social construct". Birth sex IS gender. Obviously our modern, liberal society wants to deny this, and people will believe what they determine to believe. I'm not here to get into arguments that will just go in circles, either. Anyone who wants to hash out the particulars is welcome to PM me.

 

[Reeniee]

Gender is not a "social construct". Birth sex IS gender. Obviously our modern, liberal society wants to deny this, and people will believe what they determine to believe. I'm not here to get into arguments that will just go in circles, either. Anyone who wants to hash out the particulars is welcome to PM me.

Yes I agree that we seem to be on a totally difference page here, and aren't going to agree on it, so I'm happy to end this here amiably if you are.