Is There More to Atheism than Lack of Belief?

[bhsmte]

I have something to throw into the mix here, that reverts back to the OP and the thread title. I don't think there can be any debate the the english word "atheist" merely refers to a lack of belief in God or gods. Where the confusion comes in is that it is by necessity a part of an individual's world view. If people were more clear about addressing that when it is their true concern it would help. (Flushing out unstated objections isn't just for salesmen, I guess?)

Either way, atheists have as much faith as anybody else. The difference is the object of their faith.

Please give examples.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I have something to throw into the mix here, that reverts back to the OP and the thread title. I don't think there can be any debate the the english word "atheist" merely refers to a lack of belief in God or gods. Where the confusion comes in is that it is by necessity a part of an individual's world view. If people were more clear about addressing that when it is their true concern it would help. (Flushing out unstated objections isn't just for salesmen, I guess?)

Either way, atheists have as much faith as anybody else. The difference is the object of their faith.

That's like saying not believing in Santa Claus is a faith.

Non belief in a (potentially?) mythical person/creature such as Jesus or Bigfoot does not take faith.

 

[theophilus777]

Name it.

Ok Mr tactician: anything done along those lines is done through faith. Faith that your training will be effective, might be needed or at least come in handy sometime. Now I suspect you're really not a tactician at all and this merely pertains to a video game, which points out that asking me to submit personal details of another is ... pretty silly. What is really at issue here is the relationship between one's world view, and faith. Which is the whole reason why our culture would give rise to the discussion in this thread.

In order to develop your approach here you'd need to be willing to divulge your own personal life, as far as those things you assert have no bearing on your own faith. Somehow I don't think you're going to be willing to do that.

 

[theophilus777]

That's like saying not believing in Santa Claus is a faith.

Not at all. Nice side step of what was actually said though.

Non belief in a (potentially?) mythical person/creature such as Jesus or Bigfoot does not take faith.

Absolutely correct! However, to form a world view, and to act in this world, indeed requires faith. Its just that you're not accustomed to using that term, nor even thinking in those terms. If you were to compare these details from your own life to those of a believer's, I think you'd see the similarities. And they wouldn't even surprise you, other than the usage of that one word, that is.

Example: do you drive a car?

 

[Gadarene]

Cars that can be shown to exist, right?

Just checking.

 

[theophilus777]

Cars that can be shown to exist, right?

Just checking.

Actually, I was specifically asking him if he owns any cars that can't be shown to exist lol

 

[Gadarene]

Car hipsters

 

[bhsmte]

Not at all. Nice side step of what was actually said though.



Absolutely correct! However, to form a world view, and to act in this world, indeed requires faith. Its just that you're not accustomed to using that term, nor even thinking in those terms. If you were to compare these details from your own life to those of a believer's, I think you'd see the similarities. And they wouldn't even surprise you, other than the usage of that one word, that is.

Example: do you drive a car?

I think you are confusing the term; "faith" with "trust" in how one forms views on particular issues.

Do I need faith that my car will start in the morning? No, I trust my car will start in the morning, because it has for over a year and the battery is in good shape. There is a chance it won't start, but I don't require faith (belief without objective evidence) that it will start.

Some people are more prone to determine views on faith than others, it depends on your personal psychology and how you are wired. Intuitive people tend to use faith more than objective thinkers, who tend to rely to trust things, based on track records and evidence.

 

[Received]

Faith (if we're talking biblically) is best defined as a type of trust; belief despite lack of evidence sounds very post-Enlightenment.

And yeah, you do need faith (trust) that your car will work. What distinguishes this faith from religious faith is that the former has some degree of inductive cogency behind it; but just because you car has started up a hundred times doesn't mean the hundred and first will be a win as well. So even though, in a sense, it takes a lot less faith to believe that your car will start (given induction), it's still faith.

Faith is everywhere. It's all a question of breadth and depth of faith, not whether we do or don't have faith in just about everything. You can accuse religious folks of having too much faith (too little induction, deduction, or empirical support), but you can't distinguish their faith from some sort of secular nonexistent faith.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Not at all. Nice side step of what was actually said though.



Absolutely correct! However, to form a world view, and to act in this world, indeed requires faith. Its just that you're not accustomed to using that term, nor even thinking in those terms. If you were to compare these details from your own life to those of a believer's, I think you'd see the similarities. And they wouldn't even surprise you, other than the usage of that one word, that is.

Example: do you drive a car?

No, if you believe in what your senses are telling you, and what your brain tells you, you don't have to rely on faith.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Faith (if we're talking biblically) is best defined as a type of trust; belief despite lack of evidence sounds very post-Enlightenment.

And yeah, you do need faith (trust) that your car will work. What distinguishes this faith from religious faith is that the former has some degree of inductive cogency behind it; but just because you car has started up a hundred times doesn't mean the hundred and first will be a win as well. So even though, in a sense, it takes a lot less faith to believe that your car will start (given induction), it's still faith.

Faith is everywhere. It's all a question of breadth and depth of faith, not whether we do or don't have faith in just about everything. You can accuse religious folks of having too much faith (too little induction, deduction, or empirical support), but you can't distinguish their faith from some sort of secular nonexistent faith.

I have zero "faith" my car will start in the morning. Experience has taught me that it is highly likely it will, but on occasion it won't.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Not at all. Nice side step of what was actually said though.

...

No, it's not.

As far as evidence goes, there is just as much for Santa Claus as there is for Jesus.

Do you believe it takes faith not to believe in Santa?

 

[andy b]

Cars that can be shown to exist, right?

Just checking.

Not sure about that my dad used to have an Austin allegro so the lines are blurred

 

[Received]

I have zero "faith" my car will start in the morning. Experience has taught me that it is highly likely it will, but on occasion it won't.

Experience that isn't "encoded" as trust, confidence, or faith is useless for the situation you're describing. You do have faith, just not the religious type.

 

[quatona]

And yeah, you do need faith (trust) that your car will work.

No, I don´t. It either will work or it won´t, and I am aware of these options.

What distinguishes this faith from religious faith is that the former has some degree of inductive cogency behind it; but just because you car has started up a hundred times doesn't mean the hundred and first will be a win as well.

That´s exactly one of the reasons why I don´t have faith that my car will work.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Experience that isn't "encoded" as trust, confidence, or faith is useless for the situation you're describing. You do have faith, just not the religious type.

I would describe it as an expectation.

 

[Received]

No, I don´t. It either will work or it won´t, and I am aware of these options.

Do you think that whether or not you think your car works has any influence on your behavior?

 

[Received]

I would describe it as an expectation.

Yeah, that too. But your expectation is rooted in the confidence (or trust or faith) in the thing you have expectations about.

 

[quatona]

Do you think that whether or not you think your car works has any influence on your behavior?

Well, I just said that I don´t think one way or the other. I think "it will work or it won´t". I am aware that I take chances and risks, but then again usually I have a planB.
But to answer your question hypothetically: Yes, if I thought that my car will work, or if I thought that my car won´t work there might be minor differences to my behaviour, as opposed to as it is.

 

[Ken-1122]

But they don't only exist in your head. They exist in intentional actions and their consequences. Yes, they involve human thought, but they aren't merely in one's head.


eudaimonia,

Mark

My point is, morals only exist via value judgments. Now if you disagree, can you give an example of a moral situation existing without a value judgment taking place?

Ken