Is This True? - Limited Atonement

[FreeGrace2]

So do you equate, then, the gospel offer with calling?

Why wouldn't anyone? And Titus 2:11 supports that as well.

 

[Hammster]

Why wouldn't anyone? And Titus 2:11 supports that as well.

So then you must all support that those whom He called He also justified, correct?

 

[StephanieSomer]

Sure, but all these benefits were secured by His earthly ministry. Which is why that text is so powerful and interesting. He is calling, justifying, sanctifying, perfecting His saints now in real time. But we are allowed to see it from God's perspective "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified."
It's basically saying that it's a done deal because of what that one sacrifice accomplished.
It's similar to our being seated in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

I think the basic difference in what you are saying and I am saying is that you see the "single offering" to be the Cross. I do not. Christ's offering was Himself. The Cross WAS a part of that, but no where near all of it. It IS one offering in that Christ is one and He IS the offering. But the Cross isn't all that has been offered.

So, if the offering entails more than simply the Cross, then the Cross, in and of itself alone, does not satisfy all that is needed to be identified as the subject of the verse you quote.

It is in the entirety of the offering that we are "perfected for all time" and "sanctified".

My premise is that only the elect, who have been foreordained and foreknown by the Father, can access the faith necessary to acquire the elements procured by Christ by His service after the Cross. But, that which is provided by the Cross alone, which is cancellation of the penalty of sin, is to all men.

It's just that more than cancellation of sin's penalty is required to be considered a recipient of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So then you must all support that those whom He called He also justified, correct?

No, there is no logical reason for that conclusion from anything I posted.

I have been discussing the offer of salvation is for everyone. Whoever is mentioned as justified in Scripture ALWAYS means believers only.

In Jude 1, believers are referred to as "the called".

 

[Hammster]

No, there is no logical reason for that conclusion from anything I posted.

I have been discussing the offer of salvation is for everyone. Whoever is mentioned as justified in Scripture ALWAYS means believers only.

In Jude 1, believers are referred to as "the called".

You said all are called. I said "So do you equate, then, the gospel offer with calling?"

You said "Why wouldn't anyone? And Titus 2:11 supports that as well."

Romans 8:30 says those whom He called He also justified. So there's the logical reason for my conclusion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said all are called. I said "So do you equate, then, the gospel offer with calling?"

You said "Why wouldn't anyone? And Titus 2:11 supports that as well."

Romans 8:30 says those whom He called He also justified. So there's the logical reason for my conclusion.

When one tries to force a word to mean the same thing in all passages, that's not logical. Context gives us what is meant by the word.

 

[Hammster]

When one tries to force a word to mean the same thing in all passages, that's not logical. Context gives us what is meant by the word.

So "called" means different things in different contexts?

 

[FreeGrace2]

So "called" means different things in different contexts?

Why are you asking?

 

[Hammster]

Why are you asking?

First you said everyone is called. Now you seem to be backtracking on it a bit by bringing in context.

So "called" means different things in different contexts?

 

[FreeGrace2]

First you said everyone is called. Now you seem to be backtracking on it a bit by bringing in context.

So "called" means different things in different contexts?

Why would anyone think that context doesn't determine the specific meaning of a word???

 

[Hammster]

Why would anyone think that context doesn't determine the specific meaning of a word???

I'm just clarifying.

So what do you think "called" means in Romans 8:30, since it appears to be different than your earlier definition of a gospel offer?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm just clarifying.

So what do you think "called" means in Romans 8:30, since it appears to be different than your earlier definition of a gospel offer?

It is plainly obvious that the context of Rom 8:30 refers to believers, the called.

 

[Hammster]

It is plainly obvious that the context of Rom 8:30 refers to believers, the called.

It doesn't say "the called". It says those who are called. So you'll have to do better.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It doesn't say "the called". It says those who are called. So you'll have to do better.

I'm doing just fine, thank you. The called, are called. Whatever. The key remains; context. Obviously.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

It is plainly obvious that the context of Rom 8:30 refers to believers, the called.

Romans 8

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

[Hammster]

I'm doing just fine, thank you. The called, are called. Whatever. The key remains; context. Obviously.

So those He predestined, He also believers? That makes no sense.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

So those He predestined, He also believers? That makes no sense.

Do you believe that God predestined some people to Hell?

 

[Hammster]

Do you believe that God predestined some people to Hell?

That has nothing to do with this discussion, or what I said.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

That has nothing to do with this discussion, or what I said.

It is related to the OP.

Would you care to answer?

 

[Hammster]

It is related to the OP.

Would you care to answer?

Sure.

Not in the same way He predestined some to salvation. I don't hold to equal ultimacy.