A concept that will greatly help in understanding end time prophecy.

[Keachian]

If they are God's people why aren't they turning to him?

 

[Old Timer]

How would you know that they're not?

Of course the body of Christ which is not wise in its own conceits understands that Israel's blindness in part shall last until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in..

It's not complicated..

Simply ignored..

 

[ebedmelech]

That is not even so much as an approximate rendering of what James said in this passage. The truth is that James was saying the very opposite of what you are claiming.

He most absolutely did not call the Gentiles "the tent of David. What he said was, "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.'" (Acts 15:14-17)

The gentiles were not here called "tabernacle of David" (or "tent" in other translations.) Rather, James said that the tabernacle of David was set up "so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord."

This is just another example of how those who deny the restoration of Israel continually wrest the New Testament scriptures to mean things it does not actually say, using this as an excuse to deny many other scriptures that actually say what these people claim they could not mean,

That is a most "dispensational" interpretation of the passage Biblewriter...and very typical of what you do to maintain a "two peoples of God" view.

What James is affirming is shown in his waying "WITH THIS the prophets agree". What did the prophets agree with? That would be what James just said...the choosing out of the Gentiles! What you don't understand, is this is referring to the CHURCH, which is made up of Jews and Gentiles!!! He is not referring to a building at all. The quote is from Amos 9:11 and your failure is in disregarding what Paul and Peter have said of the CHURCH being the TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD! Paul says we're built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the Cornerstone...Peter says we are LIVING STONES, being built up as a SPIRITUAL HOUSE!

This is the utter error of how you ignore what is really presented in favor of your theology. It is just so typical of you!

Just as you depart from what Paul is teaching when he says "They are not all Israel that are descended from Israel", in Romans 9. Paul has laid that foundation in Romans 4...and if you stick with Paul, and not your theology...you will get the proper understanding.

 

[Interplanner]

Well done EbedM. I think the reason it is called a tent there may have something salty or paradoxical to say about the fate of the temple. A shepherds tent was meant to be on the move as needed. That is how the new group would be. It would not have a "home" like the temple. Just a thought.

I simply cannot understand futurists grip on reality in actual settings like Acts 15, and doing their future-warp spins. I can understand it a little better when it is just a line in a letter. But when it is actually resolving a heated, conflicted situation? What in the world.

 

[riverrat]

Well done EbedM. I think the reason it is called a tent there may have something salty or paradoxical to say about the fate of the temple. A shepherds tent was meant to be on the move as needed. That is how the new group would be. It would not have a "home" like the temple. Just a thought.

I simply cannot understand futurists grip on reality in actual settings like Acts 15, and doing their future-warp spins. I can understand it a little better when it is just a line in a letter. But when it is actually resolving a heated, conflicted situation? What in the world.

You do not understand scripture because you have admitted that the scripture that does not fit your theology is dead to you.

 

[NannaNae]

bible writter everything that you condemn Israel for all these ages the
church is and has done the exact same thing.. though usually israel is the early warning system. because every one is still connected at hip.

for every bit that the people of Israel now don't acknowledge him the people of his church just created a whole nother Jesus that they like better..
his church went out and stopped celebrating his days and started celebratring pagan days.. i'm telling you apples never fell far from the tree we all are eating fromn ..
because we are still the same world filled with the same people with the same kind of hearts.. as ancient israel as modern Israel/judah ..
we just went and made up our own kind of Jesus.,.
one that loves everybody just like they are..
and forgives everybody just like they are
a real impotent fellow who can't get r done!
and so he white washes all those tombstones so everyone can feel new again sunday morning after Friday and Saturday night..


the church that calls themselves by his name denies the real Jesus and most of his book ., just as much as Israeli/judah does today.

but everyone of them cling to his concepts and his promises but only without him. because he is libel to fix them, and they don't really want that . they like to swim in the cesspool 6 days a week and take a bath one.


Israel is and has always been a mirror of the churches sins ...and a early warning device even. to the jew first then the gentiles... you want to know what satan is doing or going to do to god's people watch israel.
because we have always been connected . always!

 

[ebedmelech]

bible writter everything that you condemn Israel for all these ages the
church is and has done the exact same thing.. though usually israel is the early warning system. because every one is still connected at hip.

for every bit that the people of Israel now don't acknowledge him the people of his church just created a whole nother Jesus that they like better..
his church went out and stopped celebrating his days and started celebratring pagan days.. i'm telling you apples never fell far from the tree we all are eating fromn ..
because we are still the same world filled with the same people with the same kind of hearts.. as ancient israel as modern Israel/judah ..
we just went and made up our own kind of Jesus.,.
one that loves everybody just like they are..
and forgives everybody just like they are
a real impotent fellow who can't get r done!
and so he white washes all those tombstones so everyone can feel new again sunday morning after Friday and Saturday night..


the church that calls themselves by his name denies the real Jesus and most of his book ., just as much as Israeli/judah does today.

but everyone of them cling to his concepts and his promises but only without him. because he is libel to fix them, and they don't really want that . they like to swim in the cesspool 6 days a week and take a bath one.


Israel is and has always been a mirror of the churches sins ...and a early warning device even. to the jew first then the gentiles... you want to know what satan is doing or going to do to god's people watch israel.
because we have always been connected . always!

That's a pretty broad brush NannaNae! I get what you're saying but I don't know how one can even think to know the condition of "the church".

The church in America is on thing, the church in China (for instance) is another thing.

We're warned to "make our calling and election sure"...also, as Jesus said "Let the wheat and the tares grow together".

His winnowing fork is in His hand...

 

[Interplanner]

Rat,
I'm alive to:
"The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and announce the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed..."

And, I don't know what it is about Acts 15's quote of Amos that I'm "not believing."

 

[riverrat]

Rat,
I'm alive to:
"The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and announce the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed..."

And, I don't know what it is about Acts 15's quote of Amos that I'm "not believing."

But you are dead to all the scripture that proves your theology wrong unless, of course, you just read someone's mind to change what it says.

 

[Interplanner]

I'll go with the plainest statements of Paul, as we all should. Lk 21 and Rom 11 are hardly plain about "futurism." I can't go with BW's statements about Rom 9, not because Rom 9 is unclear, but because BW sees a different question there than what is there.

His choices for what he finds there are always predictably futurist. Isn't that strange! Futurism is to handle the OT the way unconverted Judaism did (Jn 12:34).

 

[Old Timer]

Romans 9-11 is very predictable.. men becoming wise in their own conceits for ignoring what the apostle to the Gentiles warned them about..

 

[Interplanner]

In case its not clear, the warning was about thinking God was bi-polar; all Israel at times and all Gentiles at others. He's not. The text is not. I'm not.

 

[Old Timer]

In case its not clear, the warning was about thinking God was bi-polar; all Israel at times and all Gentiles at others. He's not. The text is not. I'm not.

No, the warning is clearly ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel lest you become wise in your own conceits..

You've pretty much been down the entire length of that road and back a few times over..

 

[timehascome2014]

the only thing that remains now is the Judgement , all other things have come and gone . we are now at the very very end and before us is the new beginning . Amen .

 

[Old Timer]

the only thing that remains now is the Judgement , all other things have come and gone . we are now at the very very end and before us is the new beginning . Amen .

Oh thanks for the update.

We're all set now that you mention it.

 

[timehascome2014]

LOL @ thanks for the update . it is True i promise you will definately see it in your lifetime , and you will see things this year that you have never seen before . the most difficult thing i have is just waiting for it im just curious if it will be this year but it doesnt really matter ( i think it will be but only God knows that ) i just want God to continue using me and i will me more than content with that what we are experiencing now is the leading up to "it" . i just am loving life and every second of it all .

<3

 

[Biblewriter]

bible writter everything that you condemn Israel for all these ages the
church is and has done the exact same thing.. though usually israel is the early warning system. because every one is still connected at hip.

for every bit that the people of Israel now don't acknowledge him the people of his church just created a whole nother Jesus that they like better..
his church went out and stopped celebrating his days and started celebratring pagan days.. i'm telling you apples never fell far from the tree we all are eating fromn ..
because we are still the same world filled with the same people with the same kind of hearts.. as ancient israel as modern Israel/judah ..
we just went and made up our own kind of Jesus.,.
one that loves everybody just like they are..
and forgives everybody just like they are
a real impotent fellow who can't get r done!
and so he white washes all those tombstones so everyone can feel new again sunday morning after Friday and Saturday night..


the church that calls themselves by his name denies the real Jesus and most of his book ., just as much as Israeli/judah does today.

but everyone of them cling to his concepts and his promises but only without him. because he is libel to fix them, and they don't really want that . they like to swim in the cesspool 6 days a week and take a bath one.


Israel is and has always been a mirror of the churches sins ...and a early warning device even. to the jew first then the gentiles... you want to know what satan is doing or going to do to god's people watch israel.
because we have always been connected . always!

Where did you get the Idea that I "condemn" Israel. They are currently in rebellion and are thus set aside for a time, but the scriptures are very plain that this setting aside is only temporary.

God, the ,mighty God of Jacob, will bring them through a time of trouble unlike anything that has ever happened on this earth, or that will ever happen again. But that time of trouble is not designed to destroy them, but to bring them to repentance, for they are still beloved for their fathers' sake.

And that same God gas explicitly tld ud that this program will indeed be effective. They will repent, and when they have repented, God will save them and bless them in their ancient homeland. This is not interpretations of scriptures, but what they actually say in very plain words.

 

[NannaNae]

Where did you get the Idea that I "condemn" Israel. They are currently in rebellion and are thus set aside for a time, but the scriptures are very plain that this setting aside is only temporary.

God, the ,mighty God of Jacob, will bring them through a time of trouble unlike anything that has ever happened on this earth, or that will ever happen again. But that time of trouble is not designed to destroy them, but to bring them to repentance, for they are still beloved for their fathers' sake.

And that same God gas explicitly tld ud that this program will indeed be effective. They will repent, and when they have repented, God will save them and bless them in their ancient homeland. This is not interpretations of scriptures, but what they actually say in very plain words.

Im sorry Bible writer . I was disagreeing with others and then was trying to agree with you on another point. and got the names mixed up. I'm sorry bible writer I was having a old moment.. sorry

 

[Interplanner]

BW is mostly interpretation, in actuality. The time of incredible trouble was the DofJ. There is no place in the NT that is as plain as he thinks about a future episode with Israel. Your key passages like the tenants parable, the sermon of Act 13 and Gal 3 are completely unaware of it.

 

[Biblewriter]

BW is mostly interpretation, in actuality. The time of incredible trouble was the DofJ. There is no place in the NT that is as plain as he thinks about a future episode with Israel. Your key passages like the tenants parable, the sermon of Act 13 and Gal 3 are completely unaware of it.

The extremely numerous statements about this in the Old Testament are very explicit in stating these things, and nothing in the New Testament even hints at an idea that there promises will not indeed be fulfilled, but rather the very opposite.