In Arminianism, God excludes some people from salvation

[stan1953]

And how does that make me unorthodox?

Well as you seem to have all the answers , figure it out yourself.

 

[Hammster]

Well as you seem to have all the answers , figure it out yourself.

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking.

 

[OzSpen]

I understand it. But I've never heard anyone even allude to the fact that deaf and/or mute people cannot be saved.

Are you suggesting that deaf and mute people cannot communicate overtly?

 

[stan1953]

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking.

I'm not sure if that is factual or not, but believing or advocating that spirit/souls can confess Jesus as Savior post death is Unorthodox.

 

[OzSpen]

I looked over this thread just now Skala , if the arminian theory with all it's objections were true , then Hell would have to be provisional , what possible reason can any arminian or anti Calvinist ever use to sustain an everlasting unchangeable punishment and prison ? I can't think of a single arminian argument that works .... Are men free to repent believe and be saved ? Then even at the judgement seat all may ? Even in hell all may ? And then God is said to want all men saved , so ........

The reason for my supporting unchangeable punishment and prison for unbelievers is that I, as a Reformed Arminian, have a high view of God, the Scriptures and obedience to Scriptures.

The Scriptures that teach Arminian theology are the same Scriptures that teach eternal punishment of the damned and eternal life for the saved. Why should I as a Reformed Arminian be defending an argument that doesn't work. Are all people free to repent, believe and be saved? Yes. We have defended that over and over as Arminians.

Are people free even at the judgement seat to be saved? Absolutely not. Why? Because it is not what Scriptures teach. The Scriptures are clear: 'And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement' (Heb 9:27).

Are you promoting second chance theology at the judgement?

God wanting/desiring all people to be saved is not a statement of universal salvation, but of conditional election, unlimited atonement and resistible grace.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not sure if that is factual or not, but believing or advocating that spirit/souls can confess Jesus as Savior post death is Unorthodox.

Stan,

John M Frame is a Calvinist theologian and his article, 'Second Chance', demonstrates that a second change of repentance and faith after death is UNORTHODOX THEOLOGY. John Frame wrote:

This view is rejected by all orthodox Protestant churches. The mainstream of Protestant theology urges that death is the end of man’s probation and that the spiritual condition of man after death is fixed, not fluid (Luke 16:19-31; John 8:24; Heb. 9:27). God’s judgment is based upon deeds done in the body, i.e., on earth (Matt. 7:22-23; 10:32-33; 25:3415.; II Cor. 5:9-11; Gal. 6:7-8; II Thess. 1:8). The idea of a second chance is inconsistent with the urgent call in Scripture to repentance and obedience now (II Cor. 6:2; Heb. 3:7-19; 12:25-29).

Yes, there were some in the early church and throughout church history, including the contemporary church, who have advocated such a position but biblically it cannot be supported and is regarded a heterodox doctrine.

Oz

 

[stan1953]

Stan,
John M Frame is a Calvinist theologian and his article, 'Second Chance', demonstrates that a second change of repentance and faith after death is UNORTHODOX THEOLOGY. John Frame wrote:
Yes, there were some in the early church and throughout church history, including the contemporary church, who have advocated such a position but biblically it cannot be supported and is regarded a heterodox doctrine.
Oz

Of course, especially from his perspective it could not happen as it would negate sovereign election. As an ex RC, I encountered this same POV in their beliefs in Purgatory. Clearly the Bible teaches us that in THIS life we must repent.
That message is pretty clear in Matthew 16:31
Seems some are six point Calvinists. and yet don't accept universalism.

 

[Hammster]

Are you suggesting that deaf and mute people cannot communicate overtly?

No. Why do you ask?

 

[Hammster]

I'm not sure if that is factual or not, but believing or advocating that spirit/souls can confess Jesus as Savior post death is Unorthodox.

I agree. But apparently for differing reasons.

 

[Hammster]

The reason for my supporting unchangeable punishment and prison for unbelievers is that I, as a Reformed Arminian, have a high view of God, the Scriptures and obedience to Scriptures.

The Scriptures that teach Arminian theology are the same Scriptures that teach eternal punishment of the damned and eternal life for the saved. Why should I as a Reformed Arminian be defending an argument that doesn't work. Are all people free to repent, believe and be saved? Yes. We have defended that over and over as Arminians.

Are people free even at the judgement seat to be saved? Absolutely not. Why? Because it is not what Scriptures teach. The Scriptures are clear: 'And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement' (Heb 9:27).

Are you promoting second chance theology at the judgement?

God wanting/desiring all people to be saved is not a statement of universal salvation, but of conditional election, unlimited atonement and resistible grace.

Oz

Why can't they be saved after judgement? Can't God pardon them if they cry out to him for mercy?

 

[OzSpen]

Why can't they be saved after judgement? Can't God pardon them if they cry out to him for mercy?

What do the Scriptures state? Where is your evidence that there is a second chance after death?

 

[OzSpen]

As the Bible and God's word is ONLY for LIFE, death seals our Eternity.
This is the obvious message in scripture despite those who would equivocate otherwise. Heb 9:27

 

[Hammster]

What do the Scriptures state? Where is your evidence that there is a second chance after death?

I asked two questions. Could you please answer them? It appears that you are deflecting.

 

[OzSpen]

You miss the point , every Arminians doctrine or sentiment vastly changes at the judgement , for if God desires to save all men , and all men can repent and. Believe , then a universal reprieve would follow , it doesn't because God not man , calls the shots , and He says when the time is up , furthermore , GOd doesn't change , the judgement day doesn't change God . Therefore God places restrictions upon the salvation of sinners. These restrictions are imposed on sinners , and what do we see about Gods desire to save after that ?

Your understanding of Arminian doctrines is contorted for you to arrive at such an unbiblical conclusion re Arminian theology..

 

[Hammster]

And still no answer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked two questions. Could you please answer them? It appears that you are deflecting.

Is that what is happening when you "answer" a question with questions of your own???

 

[Hammster]

Is that what is happening when you "answer" a question with questions of your own???

I didn't answer a question with a question.

 

[OzSpen]

I asked two questions. Could you please answer them? It appears that you are deflecting.

I'm deflecting nothing. I provided a link by a Calvinist, John Frame, who provided biblical evidence to refute the view that you seem to be promoting of a second chance after death. Please go back to read his article.

 

[Hammster]

I'm deflecting nothing. I provided a link by a Calvinist, John Frame, who provided biblical evidence to refute the view that you seem to be promoting of a second chance after death. Please go back to read his article.

Sorry, but that didn't answer my questions. But that's okay.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Your understanding of Arminian doctrines is contorted for you to arrive at such an unbiblical conclusion re Arminian theology..

Why did God send Christ to die for those He foreknew would not believe?