not really. most gnostics i know don't see Jesus as only human but the offspring of the 'God above God'..
The destined saviour of our fallen Sophia. Truly divine.
If anything gnosticism can spritualize the resurrection and virgin birth, etc, but not Jesus's divinity
If that is your experience, that's cool - most of the gnostics I've seen (both in person and elsewhere) go exactly opposite, especially as it concerns the claims of Jesus not being able to be both God/Man simultaneously (consistent with what occurred within the era of the early church when those same ideas came into being). Of course, they are also consistent in noting the 'God above God' idea (not Biblical nor what the Early Jewish community felt) when it came to other views of Sophia being connected..alongside other things. Much of it being essentially what was recreated within the system of Mormonism (which noted the same realities - in regards to Christ being the offspring of deities....that God apparently had sex had with another female deity in order to produce Christ and the Devil amongst other wild beliefs found within Mormonism)
Dr. Michael Heiser did an excellent presentation on the issue once:
And to be clear, this is not to say that it's wrong to have a view of a feminine view of the Lord in any way - some of this was noted elsewhere, as seen here:
the persons of the Godhead are distinct but relational and one thus "God is love" as John states. This is not the case with the Olympians (or other gods that I know of). Further, in discussing this issue, a list was made of the abilities etc. of the persons of the Holy Trinity in Scripture, and were found to have the same attributes with the exception that the Father originates, the Son is begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds. This is again not the case with the Olympians, etc.
Gxg (G²);65417258 said:
Very excellent points - and yet within that there's the dynamic of the Trinity having relationship amongst itself just as it is within a Human Family of Father, Mother and Son...and on a side note, to be clear r with the Family Dynamic -
as noted elsewhere more in-depth - it is challenging seeing others tackle other possibilities of there being a FEMININE Aspect of the GOD-Head, as it relates to the concept of Family (i.e. Father, Son, Mother, etc), "Lady Wisdom" in Proverbs 8 (and how the Historical Church often viewed the issue)----and understanding the reasons behind why many had issues with it down in later centuries of the Early Church.[/SIZE] [/COLOR][/FONT]. If aware of what
is taught in the Syriac Orthodox CHurch on the Holy Spirit and women,
it's very surprising to see their thoughts on a Feminine Holy SPirit (
Even though others disagree in regards to the reasons why feminine language was used by parts of Ancient Christendom)- more here at
The Role of Women in the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch*/
The Holy Spirit as Feminine in Early Syriac Literature or
The Holy Spirit: Classic and Contemporary Readings - Page 113
And on the issue of the Trinity having a highly SOCIAL aspect to it even as all are unified together - for good review on the issue, one can consider
going here:
Obviously, not all gnostics are the same - there were other aspects of it within the Early Church that were well-accepted...as noted best in
The School of Alexandria - Part I/Ch 4 - The Gnostics .....
Of course, Jesus in His humanity was truly the peak - and this is something many in the Christian world have born witness to when it comes to other groups such as the Sufis . (more discussed
here). Sufis who noted Christ showing the way to walk on the Straight Path/be in Love with the Divine (as God is Love) - Others such as Ibn al-‟Arabi fleshed out his philosophy of the "Perfect Man‟ (insan al-kamil) based on his reading of Hadith Qudsi - more shared in
"Representations of Jesus in Islamic Mysticism: Defining the Sufi Jesus‟ by Milad Milani .
[/LEFT].
For to the Sufis, Jesus is the greatest and highest ranking of all the prophets in the succession of the prophets up to his person - it being noted that 'No previous prophet, however graced with virtues of perfection, ever quite attained his degree" and "Jesus is the paragon of a perfect human being and the example par excellence of a true master"....and this is something that has been noted for sometime when it comes to how those who are true Sufis feel that the name Jesus stands for "love" (and thus, the representative of God who is Love by Nature) and they 'won't be content with anything less than to be pure like Jesus, as in the words of the poet 'Attar.
Cleanse me, O Lord, of this filthy soul,
So I may claim immortal purity for myself, like Jesus.
More was noted on that in "J
esus in the Eyes of the Sufis" by Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh.
Who needs Christian authers? (joking)
Of course
Who needs anyone...
I was reading the Bhagavid Gita (great Hindu work) and that's what convinced me of Jesus being the Lord of the Universe (cue echo). It all kind of fit together this weekend.
There's no sound in space, dude - so the echo wouldn't happen in the universe
But seriously, I get where you're coming from as it concerns the Bhagavid Gita helping to show Christ ruling over the Universe. Some of that connects with what other Christians have noted before on the same issue - one of the ones I look up to being
E. Stanley Jones ...an amazing individual - author of the book
The Christ of the Indian Road. It turns out that
The Christ of the Indian Road was a very powerful read since it details where Stanley Jones asked Gandhi how to naturalize Christianity into India - and had many conversations in regards to Christ (more shared before in the thread
I like your Christ, I just don't like your Christians ).
Easter Sunday, a day I usually despise, turned out not only the day to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus, but there was a resurrection of Jesus in my heart.
I will check out the NT Wright book though. Thanks!
Cool to know - and hope it blesses you in your studies...
