A Christian Economy

[only a sojourner]

Capitalism and the advertising industry,which is a necessary adjunct to boost consumption sufficiently so as to allow the economy to function, promotes narcissism, greed, selfishness and a materialistic outlook on life. These are not Christian characteristics. In Acts, chapters 2-5, in the very early church, immediately after the outpouring of the Holy Ghost believers sold all their possessions and the money was held in common and shared with those who had need. The rich young ruler was instructed by Jesus to sell all his possessions and to give the money to the poor. In the first few centuries Christian communities generously provided charity to its poorest members. With Constantine an imperial, ecclesiastical and more worldly church arose.

Christian ministries have become infected with the values of the mammon worshiping society which surrounds them promising material prosperity and even healing in return for "a seed offering". Rather similar to the indulgences of the late medieval church.

I believe God can be with a people even though their institutions are flawed. Ancient Israel practiced polygamy and slavery. Although the American Constitution and other documents were heavily influenced my non- Christian deist and enlightenment philosophy the United States had many believing Christians and political leaders. This has been true in the past of both Europe and the United States. Any economic system divorced of God can be evil. Ayn Rand developed a philosophy she called Objectivism based on unfettered capitalism. She was an atheist and celebrated selfishness which she believed embodied the spirit of capitalism as a virtue. The libertarian branch of the Republican Party is an heir to this philosophy. Capitalism unregulated has led to exploitation, unsafe working conditions, long work hours, child labor. It led to the 2008 financial crisis which could have resulted in another Great Depression were it not for government intervention. On the other hand Marxism- Leninism is an atheistic system and is hostile to Christianity and has severely persecuted Christians.

Just some thoughts about Christianity and economics which are quite a bit out of the mainstream of politically correct discourse in conservative Christian circles. Hopefully this will stimulate some thought and discussion.

 

[only a sojourner]

Capitalism is very dynamic, very prolific, in fact it is a system that requires constant growth to avoid recession or depression. The question is whether it is a Godly or moral system and perhaps it can be if sufficiently regulated and with enough safeguards. Take the question of food for example, the poor starve not because there isn't enough food but because they are too poor to purchase it. If there was sufficient profit for farmers to grow the food and for distributors to distribute the food because the poor had enough income to purchase it the poor would not be starving. Is it a moral economic system that forces children in Haiti to scavenge for food and other necessities in a dump? But if you live well and are benefiting from the system it may seem like a moral system to you.

 

[Profane]

Christian economy? Are we just slapping the word 'Christian' in front of things now to try and make them sound better?

Christian Soap

Christian Dentist appointment.

Christian hangnail.

Christian cats.

Christian Communisim.

Christian snow.

Christian Grass.

Christian dancing.

Christian pie.

Christian boots.

 

[ValleyGal]

I agree with the fact that very early Christians gave to a common good. Some people would say that it's the church's job to help the poor and fatherless, etc, but it is a responsibility that the government took on - only a little, just enough to say they do it. But it is not enough. So the church is expected to fill in the gaps, but the problem is that wealthy people don't give a whole lot to the church; they give to some of their favourite charities, but even that is a drop in the bucket. When it comes to how much people give as a percentage of their income or wealth, the middle class actually gives more than any other group, and the poor would give more if they had more to give (according to one study I read a few years ago). The motive behind giving is different, too, with the wealthy giving because they can use it as a tax benefit; middle class and poor people give because helping others is the right thing to do. Middle and poor people also typically give more without receiving a tax credit because they give to people they see on the street or they help out their neighbours or friends.

As for capitalism, it is eventually going to eat itself up. It used to be the Fortune 500, but that has quickly become the Fortune 100, and very soon will start becoming the Fortune 50. The gap between the wealthy and the poor becomes wider and wider, with fewer and fewer in the middle. Rich people buy out rich people and get even richer, while those bought out invest and make a great living just off the interest. But they don't dare give...they just reinvest whatever interest they don't use, so if the market crashes, they might still have enough to live on. Meanwhile, there are very few programs to assist those who want more than anything to do whatever it takes to find gainful employment so they don't have to live off the few social programs that are available. But it is in the rich people's best interest to keep the poor, poor. If the poor become rich, it takes away the rich person's status. So they pour just enough into the social programs that it keeps the rich's personal economy growing.

I don't believe in capitalism because it only works for those who are in the top income brackets. It is incredibly rare to hear rags to riches stories. They just rarely ever happen.

So what is our Christian economic responsibility? We pay our taxes, we do what we can to provide for our families, we tithe and give offerings as we see fit and are convicted, and we make sure our priorities are in alignment with God's priorities.

 

[jayem]

Jesus doesn't seem to have a problem with capitalism. In the parable of the talents, the servants who double their master's money are praised as being good and faithful. In the similar parable of the minas in Luke, the king rewards the slaves who invest money at interest. And in fact, the ones who make the most money get the greatest rewards. Aren't these examples of capitalism?

BTW: Does Jesus ever say not to charge interest to fellow Christians? Where did the medieval church get this idea?

 

[ValleyGal]

Good stewardship is not the same thing as capitalism.

 

[High Fidelity]

I think any of the "ism's" in their absolute forms are bad.

Like Communism, there isn't really a real Capitalism around at the moment anyway.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In any free market system the rich will prosper more than anyone else. Redistribution through taxation and targeted government spending is the solution.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

BTW: Does Jesus ever say not to charge interest to fellow Christians? Where did the medieval church get this idea?

The Church Fathers reasoned that what the Israelites could not to each other, nobody ought to do to anybody.

Like Communism, there isn't really a real Capitalism around at the moment anyway.

Capitalism, as Marx defined it (and he coined the term) disappeared in the interwar period anyway. The managerial class is the ruling class today, whether the system is called "capitalist" or "socialist".

 

[jayem]

The Church Fathers reasoned that what the Israelites could not to each other, nobody ought to do to anybody.

Sorry for going off-topic. But Christians aren't bound by the old covenant, right? So I guess this would be a human-created doctrine, not a divine command. Why would the church choose to follow this practice of the Hebrews and not others--like circumcision, the dietary laws, and the 7th day Sabbath?

 

[ianjosephjackson]

When the Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jewish people. There were Christians and every other religion that pushed away Jewish people from the fear that they would also be hurt. I was told this by a lady that servived the camps. She was in a school and the teacher pointed at her and called her Jewish scum in front of the class. That was a terrible time in history. Because religion was turned into evil and hatred. Is religion a problem and corrupt? Or can it be manipulated to be corrupt? God can not be manipulated. The political aspect is in my view corrupt. I wish that one day that all these religions will come together as one like before they all split into different ideas of what purity of the soul should be like. Its not about what we feel or think to be right it is what God views as a good soul. This is my belief. Bless all.

 

[oldandslow]

I pray to the Lord that I be spared both poverty and riches. The book of Proverb reminds us of that.

Capitalism, communism, feudalism, etc are all human created economic machines. They all have the same fatal flaw - in the end they become totalitarian oligarchy. Communism attempts to share and share alike, but unfortunately, someone has to enforce the sharing. We have witnessed how that turns out. I am also of the belief that the bigger a central system becomes, the more likely it is to fail. Capitalism, in the end, tends to promote monopoly and has inherent the flaws the OP provided. Further, as we now see in the US, we get the best govt money can buy. The rich get their policies adopted to the detriment of everyone else.

The Lord expects me to use a fair measure, give to the church, give to the poor, and work for my food as long as I can.

That's the only economic policy that I follow.

 

[alien444]

A secular social-democratic system would be closer to Christian Ideals of community and charity than conservatism, libertarianism, pure capitalism, or our uniquely American capitalism.

 

[ianjosephjackson]

God does not ask you to give money to anything. It is an offering. You can choose or choose not to give. If your soul feels it is ok, then why not. How about your time? Do you give your time instead of money? Maybe to go to the Seattle Gospel Mission and serve food to the homeless? This is the type of payment God asks for. Money has no value to your soul.

 

[ianjosephjackson]

Des your soul feel good when you give to those in need? Maybe picking up a stranger and giving them a ride. How does your soul feel after giving 100$ to a family in need during xmas? You may feel even more broke but your soul knows it did a good deed. And God is with you during those moments. That's what I believe to be true!

 

[ValleyGal]

Ian, money must play a factor. In the NT, there is a distinction between tithes and offerings. Some people don't have a lot of money, but they have time and talent that they can give. But then you get those who do minister to those who are homeless, shut-in and in financial need, those who are in prison, etc. Is this ALL supposed to be funded through giving our time? Most people work for a living and don't have the time to invest. So they give money. Then you get people who have the talent and training to reach out, like social workers, but most of these programs are expected to be run on philanthropy, but those who run the programs invest often 40 hours a week into it, so how do they get compensated? After all, they have rent to pay and children to feed, too. So yes, money needs to come into it, and it seems some people expect it to be funded by government, and some expect it to be funded by churches, no one is willing to really take responsibility for addressing the real issue and being financially responsible by creating programs that will decrease spending and be effective at the same time....especially in a capitalistic society, where the rich are invested in keeping the poor poor, and keeping the middle class going just enough to keep pumping money into the economy in order to keep the rich people's accounts growing bigger and bigger....and yet the poor are often left taking care of the poor because, well, that's just how it seems to work.

Imo, give what you can, when you can, whether it be through time, talent, or treasure.

 

[ianjosephjackson]

I am saying that there is always time. People have a choice. They can do what they want. They can be rich and full of things to be taken care of. But how would you feel if the Queen of England was walking down her red carpet and stopped to shake your hand. Yes this is extreme. But everyone can give time. We have a choice to stop and help in the way you know how or not to stop. It is a choice. You can go left or go right. Either way you choose will impact someone somewhere and you may not know it. I met a holocaust survivor 2 days ago, I teared up and this old lady made me realize some of my own faults through the words she spoke. I think you are right that sometimes it is hard to do everything, but when you get the chance to take a little weight off of Gods shoulders he will thank you.

 

[ianjosephjackson]

I always let God know that I am here to help him so that he can take a day off! Lol he may never do this but at least I try. And he can see that I do.

 

[ValleyGal]

I don't think God's had a day of rest since I became his child. lol. I can get into a lot of trouble from time to time and he keeps having to pull me out of it.... but he does weigh the heart, and he knows when we try to give what we can for the Kingdom.

Isn't it amazing how talking to other people with a different experience can help put your own life into a different perspective? I'm sure meeting the holocaust survivor is something you will be likely to remember...and the wisdom she offered...

 

[ianjosephjackson]

Money is what people need now a days to eat and live. It controls daily problems. But it doesn't control my soul. I am a US Soldier. People like to thank their heros but I thank the God and the people for supporting us even when they disagree with what we are instructed to do. I have served food at a homeless dinning facility in Seattle. I was driving through Canada from Alaska to Washington state and gave a ride to a hitch hiker that was going to be walking 20 miles or more to the next city. I gave a ride for a drunken man in Canada out of kindness. I was driving 2500 miles or more, I had about 500$ in my bank I helped people travel and went negative in my bank account and made it to my destination on fumes. I traveled with no GPS or phone. I could have been stranded. There is always time. You can make time. I believe you have the heart to give time to someone or something in need.