What is Philosophy in the form of Metaphysics, especially classically other than...

[Neogaia777]

Other than philosophers questioning the nature of reality and what's really "real", some (most) of which admitting to the fact that there could be the possibility of realities of existence, beyond that, or different from what we currently know with our senses and what is currently understood and accepted by us now as reality, (So how can these ones be atheists then?)

Makes me wonder just what put that driving force in them (to question the nature of reality and the pondering of maybe, perhaps more to reality than what we currently know and can see with our eyes)...

 

[durangodawood]

Other than philosophers questioning the nature of reality and what's really "real", some (most) of which admitting to the fact that there could be the possibility of realities of existence, beyond that, or different from what we currently know with our senses and what is currently understood and accepted by us now as reality, (So how can these ones be atheists then?)

Makes me wonder just what put that driving force in them (to question the nature of reality and the pondering of maybe, perhaps more to reality than what we currently know and can see with our eyes)...

1. There could be other realities. But perhaps not.

2. If there are other realities, that alone doesnt advance the truth of any particular story.

Thats how these philosophers could be atheists.

 

[Paradoxum]

What is the question?

People question because they are curious, and because they understand that we aren't certain about anything. Curiosity is good for the species because it means we invent things, and find out useful knowledge.

One can say that there might be a God, while not believing in a God, or while thinking that a God is unlikely.

 

[Neogaia777]

What is the question?

People question because they are curious, and because they understand that we aren't certain about anything. Curiosity is good for the species because it means we invent things, and find out useful knowledge.

One can say that there might be a God, while not believing in a God, or while thinking that a God is unlikely.

If one is saying there "might be" a God, then he/she is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic, The saying that their "might be" a God, no matter how unlikely you think it is, means some small part of you is still open to the possibility, making you Agnostic...

On the other hand an Atheist is not open to the possibility that there could/might be, or is a God AT ALL, and claims they know this with absolute 100% percent certainty, and some even claim that they can even prove that there is no God, which from my perspective is neither provable nor un-provable, so..

Anyone claiming to be an Atheist that is in, no matter how minute of a measure, even slightly open AT ALL, in any kind of measure is not Atheist, but Agnostic...

I would like to quote a line from Data from Star Trek, when asked about an astronomical phenomena they encountered, he was asked about it "What do your sensors indicate?" Data said "Nothing sir." To which Data was asked "Nothing?" to which further was said "Mr.Data, you must mean that it's empty of matter... There's always some form of energy at work." To which Data replies "Sir our sensors are showing this to be the absence of everything... It is avoid without matter or energy of any kind." To which Riker then says to Data, "Yet this hole has a form, Data, it has height, width..." To which Data replies "Perhaps, perhaps not sir."

To which Picard says "That's hardly a scientific observation, commander." To which Data replies "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir."

And I believe we are inevitably led to the same conclusions about God, saying "I do not know", unless we have proof (and I personally do and have, for me anyways) but I do not blame others who do not have proof or for being Agnostic in their position, but I do believe strict Atheists to be wrong however, for they are not saying, "I do not know" But are saying for, and with absolute certainty that "know" for 100% solid fact that God does not exist, which cannot be proven and is therefore invalid and unreasonable and not logical (to me anyways)

God Bless!

 

[durangodawood]

Lots of people who dont believe in God describe themselves as atheist because they are not-theistic, or a-theistic.... even though they remain open to believing in God if some evidence came along.

 

[bhsmte]

If one is saying there "might be" a God, then he/she is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic, The saying that their "might be" a God, no matter how unlikely you think it is, means some small part of you is still open to the possibility, making you Agnostic...

On the other hand an Atheist is not open to the possibility that there could/might be, or is a God AT ALL, and claims they know this with absolute 100% percent certainty, and some even claim that they can even prove that there is no God, which from my perspective is neither provable nor un-provable, so..

Anyone claiming to be an Atheist that is in, no matter how minute of a measure, even slightly open AT ALL, in any kind of measure is not Atheist, but Agnostic...

I would like to quote a line from Data from Star Trek, when asked about an astronomical phenomena they encountered, he was asked about it "What do your sensors indicate?" Data said "Nothing sir." To which Data was asked "Nothing?" to which further was said "Mr.Data, you must mean that it's empty of matter... There's always some form of energy at work." To which Data replies "Sir our sensors are showing this to be the absence of everything... It is avoid without matter or energy of any kind." To which Riker then says to Data, "Yet this hole has a form, Data, it has height, width..." To which Data replies "Perhaps, perhaps not sir."

To which Picard says "That's hardly a scientific observation, commander." To which Data replies "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir."

And I believe we are inevitably led to the same conclusions about God, saying "I do not know", unless we have proof (and I personally do and have, for me anyways) but I do not blame others who do not have proof or for being Agnostic in their position, but I do believe strict Atheists to be wrong however, for they are not saying, "I do not know" But are saying for, and with absolute certainty that "know" for 100% solid fact that God does not exist, which cannot be proven and is therefore invalid and unreasonable and not logical (to me anyways)

God Bless!

Wrong. Atheists typically believe there is no evidence to believe in a God, but most would not say they are 100% certain and leave the door open if evidence presents itself. Agnostics typically, claim that whether there is a God or not is unknowable and don't believe in God's for this reason.

I am atheist towards the Christian God and agnostic towards a universal non-personal God. I will admit, the Christian God could exist, but I am 99% sure he doesn't. In regards to Christians, I have asked many on this site whether they could be wrong about their belief in God, and I have yet to have one acknowledge there is any chance they could be wrong and they are 100% certain their God exists.

 

[quatona]

If one is saying there "might be" a God, then he/she is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic, The saying that their "might be" a God, no matter how unlikely you think it is, means some small part of you is still open to the possibility, making you Agnostic...

You are arguing from a very uncommon definition of "atheist", and from a definition that the vast majority of self-professing atheists don´t have in mind when using that label.
So you will have a hard time finding a self-professing atheist here who is willing to defend a position they don´t hold. Good luck with that.

 

[Paradoxum]

If one is saying there "might be" a God, then he/she is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic, The saying that their "might be" a God, no matter how unlikely you think it is, means some small part of you is still open to the possibility, making you Agnostic...

On the other hand an Atheist is not open to the possibility that there could/might be, or is a God AT ALL, and claims they know this with absolute 100% percent certainty, and some even claim that they can even prove that there is no God, which from my perspective is neither provable nor un-provable, so..

Anyone claiming to be an Atheist that is in, no matter how minute of a measure, even slightly open AT ALL, in any kind of measure is not Atheist, but Agnostic...

I would like to quote a line from Data from Star Trek, when asked about an astronomical phenomena they encountered, he was asked about it "What do your sensors indicate?" Data said "Nothing sir." To which Data was asked "Nothing?" to which further was said "Mr.Data, you must mean that it's empty of matter... There's always some form of energy at work." To which Data replies "Sir our sensors are showing this to be the absence of everything... It is avoid without matter or energy of any kind." To which Riker then says to Data, "Yet this hole has a form, Data, it has height, width..." To which Data replies "Perhaps, perhaps not sir."

To which Picard says "That's hardly a scientific observation, commander." To which Data replies "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir."

And I believe we are inevitably led to the same conclusions about God, saying "I do not know", unless we have proof (and I personally do and have, for me anyways) but I do not blame others who do not have proof or for being Agnostic in their position, but I do believe strict Atheists to be wrong however, for they are not saying, "I do not know" But are saying for, and with absolute certainty that "know" for 100% solid fact that God does not exist, which cannot be proven and is therefore invalid and unreasonable and not logical (to me anyways)

God Bless!

That is simply incorrect. I'm not really sure how you could misunderstand what the term atheist means, unless someone has lied to you about it.

Atheist means 'not theist' (a-theist). They merely lack a belief in God. Some atheists might not even think that God is more unlikely than no God.
The way you (and some people) use the term agnosticism is incorrect. I somewhat understand why people call themselves agnostic. It is fence sitting in regards acknowledging one's own beliefs. I called myself agnostic for a while when I wasn't quite sure what I believed. But once I accepted I didn't believe in God, I said I was atheist.

Again, atheism is just a lack of belief in... not a claim that there is no God.

"Atheism: from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god'"

Atheism and Agnosticism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

----
There is a 'strong' or 'positive' form of atheism, which says there is no God, or that God is unlikely. Both weak atheism (lacking belief) and strong atheism (belief in non-existence) are types of atheism.

All beliefs allow for uncertainty anyway. No intelligent strong atheists claims they are 100% certain that there is no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

 

[Neogaia777]

Wrong. Atheists typically believe there is no evidence to believe in a God, but most would not say they are 100% certain and leave the door open if evidence presents itself. Agnostics typically, claim that whether there is a God or not is unknowable and don't believe in God's for this reason.

I am atheist towards the Christian God and agnostic towards a universal non-personal God. I will admit, the Christian God could exist, but I am 99% sure he doesn't. In regards to Christians, I have asked many on this site whether they could be wrong about their belief in God, and I have yet to have one acknowledge there is any chance they could be wrong and they are 100% certain their God exists.

Well, I don't know if this will help or not, and I'm not going to go into long drawn out details but I personally have been shown over and over and over again, many, many signs and wonders and portents in my environment and through the forces of the environment (nature) and through animals and people, and have had so, so very, very many strange set of series of muliple upon multiple coincidences, that were just to coincidental and happened to many times to be just mere coincidence...

I have personally been shown many things, most of which was so much I can't even remember them all, (all the specifics) But I had an all the sudden lightning and powerful windstorm blow in from out of no where in the space of about two minutes after just getting done praying on a park bench, I've spoke to the rain twice and it either started coming down a lot, lot harder immediately afterward, or in one case stopped immediately after my speaking/praying, and many, many other strange things happened to me that at first I tried to deny and say to myself "that's ridiculous" or "that's absurd, that's impossible" But after so, so many, many times I came to believe it and had to admit to myself most definitely for assuredity, I have seen and experienced the proof of God, I finally had to admit it to myself after many, many personal revelations.

I also heard voices, and have had some very strange dreams along with these coincidences along the way...

Well, just thought I'd share that, anyways I HAVE TO believe in God now, and I cannot take credit for my faith, nor judge those who have not experienced such things...

God Bless!

 

[variant]

If one is saying there "might be" a God, then he/she is not an Atheist, but an Agnostic, The saying that their "might be" a God, no matter how unlikely you think it is, means some small part of you is still open to the possibility, making you Agnostic...

On the other hand an Atheist is not open to the possibility that there could/might be, or is a God AT ALL, and claims they know this with absolute 100% percent certainty, and some even claim that they can even prove that there is no God, which from my perspective is neither provable nor un-provable, so..

Anyone claiming to be an Atheist that is in, no matter how minute of a measure, even slightly open AT ALL, in any kind of measure is not Atheist, but Agnostic...

Improper definition.

Atheism covers the lack of a belief in Gods so you can be an agnostic atheist.

If you lack belief in God you are an atheist whether or not you are open to the idea.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sorry all for getting Agnostic wrong, could someone then please tell me the correct word I was looking for in place of Agnostic then, please?, but I do think my definition of Atheist is a correct one in/with an extreme (extremist) Atheist.

Also what do you think about the only correct, reasonable, logical, without bias, nuetral conclusion about whether or not there is a God or not, is as I said about what Data said, in post #4 of this thread: "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir." (but it is something and not nothing)...

 

[variant]

Sorry all for getting Agnostic wrong, could someone then please tell me the correct word I was looking for in place of Agnostic then, please?, but I do think my definition of Atheist is a correct one in/with an extreme (extremist) Atheist.

You are incorrect about your definition of atheist, your terminology for agnostic is not incorrect.

I am both agnostic and an atheist because I lack the belief that there is a God and don't at this point believe there is, but do I know whether or not I am correct about that.

Atheism verses theism is not believing verses believing, where as agnosticism verses gnosticism is about not knowing verses knowing.

Also what do you think about the only correct, reasonable, logical, without bias, nuetral conclusion about whether or not there is a God or not, is as I said about what Data said, in post #4 of this thread: "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir." (but it is something and not nothing)...

Neutrality is overrated. People making claims to know truth should demonstrate their knowledge via evidence.

 

[Paradoxum]

Sorry all for getting Agnostic wrong, could someone then please tell me the correct word I was looking for in place of Agnostic then, please?, but I do think my definition of Atheist is a correct one in/with an extreme (extremist) Atheist.

Atheist is the term used for someone who lacks belief in God. If you say that you don't know if God exists, then you are atheist (if you don't positively believe in God).

That is simply what it means. You can make up your own definitions, but people who are knowledgeable on the subject will just think you are ignorant. You definition is just as crazy as saying that Muslim means terrorist, or Christian means cannibalizing a literal human sacrifice every Sunday.

Also what do you think about the only correct, reasonable, logical, without bias, nuetral conclusion about whether or not there is a God or not, is as I said about what Data said, in post #4 of this thread: "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science; the beginning of wisdom is, "I do not know"" Then he says "I do not know what that is, sir." (but it is something and not nothing)...

Well I'd say that I don't know, but there doesn't seem to be a loving, omnipotent, omniscient God, considering things like great suffering exist. Also, this God doesn't seem to care too much about making himself known, if he does exist. I'm not sure if it even makes sense to think a conscious being (with values) could exist outside time and space.

So maybe there is a God, but it doesn't seem like it.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, I don't know if this will help or not, and I'm not going to go into long drawn out details but I personally have been shown over and over and over again, many, many signs and wonders and portents in my environment and through the forces of the environment (nature) and through animals and people, and have had so, so very, very many strange set of series of muliple upon multiple coincidences, that were just to coincidental and happened to many times to be just mere coincidence...

I have personally been shown many things, most of which was so much I can't even remember them all, (all the specifics) But I had an all the sudden lightning and powerful windstorm blow in from out of no where in the space of about two minutes after just getting done praying on a park bench, I've spoke to the rain twice and it either started coming down a lot, lot harder immediately afterward, or in one case stopped immediately after my speaking/praying, and many, many other strange things happened to me that at first I tried to deny and say to myself "that's ridiculous" or "that's absurd, that's impossible" But after so, so many, many times I came to believe it and had to admit to myself most definitely for assuredity, I have seen and experienced the proof of God, I finally had to admit it to myself after many, many personal revelations.

I also heard voices, and have had some very strange dreams along with these coincidences along the way...

Well, just thought I'd share that, anyways I HAVE TO believe in God now, and I cannot take credit for my faith, nor judge those who have not experienced such things...

God Bless!

All the things you mention can be self generated (in your mind) as is the case with people who feel just as strongly as you and they believe in other Gods and they will recite experiences they have had.

No problem though, if it works for you and makes you a better person, hang on to it.

 

[Neogaia777]

Atheist is the term used for someone who lacks belief in God. If you say that you don't know if God exists, then you are atheist (if you don't positively believe in God).

That is simply what it means. You can make up your own definitions, but people who are knowledgeable on the subject will just think you are ignorant. You definition is just as crazy as saying that Muslim means terrorist, or Christian means cannibalizing a literal human sacrifice every Sunday.



Well I'd say that I don't know, but there doesn't seem to be a loving, omnipotent, omniscient God, considering things like great suffering exist. Also, this God doesn't seem to care too much about making himself known, if he does exist. I'm not sure if it even makes sense to think a conscious being (with values) could exist outside time and space.

So maybe there is a God, but it doesn't seem like it.

Well, in my opinion (and in the definitions I can find) an Atheist is some who claims that the "know" there is no God, and does not question that position, and someone claiming (the only logical, reasonable position to me) and that is saying "I do not know" whether there is a God or not, is something else, besides and Atheist...

 

[variant]

Well, in my opinion (and in the definitions I can find) an Atheist is some who claims that the "know" there is no God, and does not question that position, and someone claiming (the only logical, reasonable position to me) and that is saying "I do not know" whether there is a God or not, is something else, besides and Atheist...

Ten second Google search:

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Or, you could just resign yourself to the fact that you are talking to actual atheists.

Non-belief or disbelief doesn't imply certainty or lack of doubt any more than belief would.

 

[Neogaia777]

Ten second Google search:

1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Or, you could just resign yourself to the fact that you are talking to actual atheists.

Non-belief or disbelief doesn't imply certainty or lack of doubt any more than belief would.

In either case a Theist or an Atheist, room for doubt, means exactly that you doubt and therefore are not full on believing in what you profess, there are theists out there who have no room for doubt about the existence of God, only the weak in faith doubt the existence of God, likewise an Atheist who leaves room for doubt is very weak in his position, and if he is leaving room for doubt, then he is saying, "you know, I could be wrong" and in my opinion should be called by something else other than an Atheist, same with Theists who doubt, they should be called by another name...

 

[Paradoxum]

Well, in my opinion (and in the definitions I can find) an Atheist is some who claims that the "know" there is no God, and does not question that position, and someone claiming (the only logical, reasonable position to me) and that is saying "I do not know" whether there is a God or not, is something else, besides and Atheist...

I'm sorry but that's simply incorrect. This isn't just an opinion... it's a fact that you are wrong about this. Please just listen. I'm an atheist... when people say they are atheist, they mostly mean that they lack belief in God.

Atheist (positive/ strong atheism) CAN include a belief that there is no God, but it definitely isn't an unquestionable claim to certainty.

If you don't believe in God, then you are atheist. That is even literally what the word means. A-theist= not-theist. No intelligent atheists claim certainty (that God isn't real).

 

[variant]

In either case a Theist or an Atheist, room for doubt, means exactly that you doubt and therefore are not full on believing in what you profess, there are theists out there who have no room for doubt about the existence of God, only the weak in faith doubt the existence of God, likewise an Atheist who leaves room for doubt is very weak in his position, and if he is leaving room for doubt, then he is saying, "you know, I could be wrong" and in my opinion should be called by something else other than an Atheist, same with Theists who doubt, they should be called by another name...

This just means that both theists and atheists can be agnostics.

I display the agnostic symbol on this forum for particularly this reason.

I try not to believe in things I do not know and lack a reason to believe are true hence the atheism.

 

[bhsmte]

In either case a Theist or an Atheist, room for doubt, means exactly that you doubt and therefore are not full on believing in what you profess, there are theists out there who have no room for doubt about the existence of God, only the weak in faith doubt the existence of God, likewise an Atheist who leaves room for doubt is very weak in his position, and if he is leaving room for doubt, then he is saying, "you know, I could be wrong" and in my opinion should be called by something else other than an Atheist, same with Theists who doubt, they should be called by another name...

Your reasoning is strange.

Most atheists are simply saying; I see no evidence or reason to believe in a God, so I don't. Reasons can change, with evidence.