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Belief vs Disbelief

GoldenBoy89

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So I got to thinking...

Would God have any preference to me being a believer in a false god over being the skeptic unbeliever I am know?

To put it another way, would God (and I'm talking about the Christian God here) rather me believe in some kind of God over not believing in any God?

I already know how he feels about disbelievers. Now I'm wondering what if I decide to believe in God (I don't even think that is something you can just decide but for the sake of the OP, I decide) but let's say I'm more convinced by Islam? Would God rather me go back to the skeptic I am now over believing in a god other that YHWH?
 

Paradoxum

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I suppose the answer any Christian gives will depend on their theology. eg: Are Muslims accidently interacting with the real God, and giving him worship, or are they actively opposing the real God? Do atheists worship God when they act morally?

Explicit 'God beliefs' may not be so important to God, but rather the important thing could be the hearts orientation towards things like goodness. Maybe when you feed the poor, it's the same as doing it for God (Bible reference).
 
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PsychoSarah

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So I got to thinking...

Would God have any preference to me being a believer in a false god over being the skeptic unbeliever I am know?

To put it another way, would God (and I'm talking about the Christian God here) rather me believe in some kind of God over not believing in any God?

I already know how he feels about disbelievers. Now I'm wondering what if I decide to believe in God (I don't even think that is something you can just decide but for the sake of the OP, I decide) but let's say I'm more convinced by Islam? Would God rather me go back to the skeptic I am now over believing in a god other that YHWH?

Considering the reaction from the gold calf, I'd say that if you are considering the god of the bible, believing in another god would be worse than believing in nothing at all.
 
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brightlights

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So I got to thinking...

Would God have any preference to me being a believer in a false god over being the skeptic unbeliever I am know?

To put it another way, would God (and I'm talking about the Christian God here) rather me believe in some kind of God over not believing in any God?

I already know how he feels about disbelievers. Now I'm wondering what if I decide to believe in God (I don't even think that is something you can just decide but for the sake of the OP, I decide) but let's say I'm more convinced by Islam? Would God rather me go back to the skeptic I am now over believing in a god other that YHWH?

Within the Christian paradigm unbelief is unbelief. All people are worshipping all the time -- either the living God or false gods. We either worship God, we deify created things and give them god-like status, or we create gods that we find agreeable. Conversion is always "turning from idols to serve the living God". Even if you classify yourself as a skeptic unbeliever, according to the Bible you're still a worshipper and there is some created thing or some false image of God that you've committed yourself to. God wants you to turn from false worship to true worship.
 
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Resha Caner

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I don't know that Jesus said anything about the matter.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
- Matt 5:17

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
- John 14:6
 
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KCfromNC

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Within the Christian paradigm unbelief is unbelief. All people are worshipping all the time -- either the living God or false gods.

Yet another example where Christianity runs counter to reality. I wonder why believers keep bringing these up.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Within the Christian paradigm unbelief is unbelief. All people are worshipping all the time -- either the living God or false gods. We either worship God, we deify created things and give them god-like status, or we create gods that we find agreeable. Conversion is always "turning from idols to serve the living God". Even if you classify yourself as a skeptic unbeliever, according to the Bible you're still a worshipper and there is some created thing or some false image of God that you've committed yourself to. God wants you to turn from false worship to true worship.

As difficult as it may be for you to imagine, it is possible to not worship any gods.
 
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brightlights

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As difficult as it may be for you to imagine, it is possible to not worship any gods.

I disagree. Worship is at the core of who we are. It's as essential to human life as breathing. It doesn't always look "religious", especially in our day when we've become so interested in secularism. But worship is simply this: there are some core commitments at the root of your life that determine your decisions, behavior, emotional reactions, etc. At the very center of your person are things that you love and have committed yourself to. You serve these things and look to these things to do you good. You pursue these things. You're married to these things. That's worship.

In this sense all people are religious. Some religious devotion takes the traditional form wherein the worshipper looks to personal deities. Other religious devotion takes on a secular form wherein the worshipper looks to a person, themselves, money, a career, children, material possessions, etc.

Think of all the good things that we value. I'll just name a few. Power, freedom, and comfort. These are valuable. A god is anything you look to for these things. Money can become a god when we look to money to give us power, freedom, and comfort. Sex can become a god when we look to it to give us these things. Worshippers of the living God look to the creator to provide these things and worshippers of idols look for them in the creation.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I disagree. Worship is at the core of who we are. It's as essential to human life as breathing. It doesn't always look "religious", especially in our day when we've become so interested in secularism. But worship is simply this: there are some core commitments at the root of your life that determine your decisions, behavior, emotional reactions, etc. At the very center of your person are things that you love and have committed yourself to. You serve these things and look to these things to do you good. You pursue these things. You're married to these things. That's worship.

Commitment does not equal worship, unless you have a really warped definition of what worship is. I like cookies, I eat them when they are available, I don't worship cookies because I like eating them. I value honesty from others, but I don't worship it.
 
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brightlights

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Commitment does not equal worship, unless you have a really warped definition of what worship is. I like cookies, I eat them when they are available, I don't worship cookies because I like eating them. I value honesty from others, but I don't worship it.

Liking something and worshipping something are different. Worship is unyielding commitment and faith. I suppose it is possible to worship cookies but I wouldn't see that as a common idol of our culture.

I would venture to say that there is something that you have an unyielding commitment to and faith in. You worship that thing.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Liking something and worshipping something are different. Worship is unyielding commitment and faith. I suppose it is possible to worship cookies but I wouldn't see that as a common idol of our culture.

I would venture to say that there is something that you have an unyielding commitment to and faith in. You worship that thing.

You would be incorrect. Nothing is immune to change, nothing has no exceptions. I don't view anything as perfectly reliable.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I disagree. Worship is at the core of who we are.

I think you're projecting now. It may be at the core of who you are, as it was once perhaps at the core of who I was.

It's as essential to human life as breathing. It doesn't always look "religious", especially in our day when we've become so interested in secularism. But worship is simply this: there are some core commitments at the root of your life that determine your decisions, behavior, emotional reactions, etc. At the very center of your person are things that you love and have committed yourself to. You serve these things and look to these things to do you good. You pursue these things. You're married to these things. That's worship.

No, those are things that I pursue or admire or am committed too, not things I worship. Worship refers to an act of religious devotion usually directed toward some supernatural being.

In this sense all people are religious. Some religious devotion takes the traditional form wherein the worshipper looks to personal deities. Other religious devotion takes on a secular form wherein the worshipper looks to a person, themselves, money, a career, children, material possessions, etc.

This is just more projection. You're assuming that because you do it, everyone else does too.

Think of all the good things that we value. I'll just name a few. Power, freedom, and comfort. These are valuable. A god is anything you look to for these things. Money can become a god when we look to money to give us power, freedom, and comfort. Sex can become a god when we look to it to give us these things. Worshippers of the living God look to the creator to provide these things and worshippers of idols look for them in the creation.

Valuing something is not the same as worshipping it. For example, imagine someone who believes in God, who values God, but who does not worship God. He or she may believe that God created everything, and that the act of creation (and therefore the creator) is valuable. But he or she may also believe that this God is not vain and does not demand worship. Worship may imply value, but it's not equivalent to value.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Liking something and worshipping something are different. Worship is unyielding commitment and faith. I suppose it is possible to worship cookies but I wouldn't see that as a common idol of our culture.

I would venture to say that there is something that you have an unyielding commitment to and faith in. You worship that thing.

Interesting. So when someone denies basic fallibilism; that is, when they deny that they could be wrong about God, the Bible, Christianity, etc, are they worshipping their own opinion? After all, they do seem to have an unyielding commitment to it. But if that is their unyielding commitment, then haven't they made an idol of their opinion and view of the Bible?
 
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GoldenBoy89

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I suppose the answer any Christian gives will depend on their theology. eg: Are Muslims accidently interacting with the real God, and giving him worship, or are they actively opposing the real God? Do atheists worship God when they act morally?

Explicit 'God beliefs' may not be so important to God, but rather the important thing could be the hearts orientation towards things like goodness. Maybe when you feed the poor, it's the same as doing it for God (Bible reference).
That's pretty close to what I believe. I figure, it can't be that any one religion is "the right one" and I don't think it's possible that all are correct so for now, I say they're all wrong. But if at any point I become more convinced by any one of them, I hope God wouldn't hold it against me for joining "the wrong one". How was I supposed to know?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Commandment numero uno.
Yeah it seems like believing in him is a pretty big deal to God. Why would he make such important revelations into a gigantic game of telephone spanning over 20 centuries?

You would think something so important would be made explicitly clear to every human being.

Just the fact that there are any skeptics at all should indicate that maybe he isn't as evident as some people believe he is.

The OT god is a jealous god.
Which is such a human emotion. It's ridiculous that a supreme being of infinite power, wisdom, and love would get jealous over people believing in gods that supposedly don't even exist!

I don't know that Jesus said anything about the matter.
Specific to my question, I don't think so.

Within the Christian paradigm unbelief is unbelief. All people are worshipping all the time -- either the living God or false gods. We either worship God, we deify created things and give them god-like status, or we create gods that we find agreeable.
Can you expound on this a bit?
I'm not sure I 'worship' anything. There are plenty of things I enjoy doing. There's plenty of things I love. But I wouldn't call any of those things god.

If there is anything I deify, it is nature itself. I'm am in complete awe of the natural world. Complex systems are fascinating and nothing gets more complex than the universe. But I don't worship the universe.

Conversion is always "turning from idols to serve the living God". Even if you classify yourself as a skeptic unbeliever, according to the Bible you're still a worshipper and there is some created thing or some false image of God that you've committed yourself to. God wants you to turn from false worship to true worship.
But how do you differentiate between false worship and true worship?

I disagree. Worship is at the core of who we are. It's as essential to human life as breathing. It doesn't always look "religious", especially in our day when we've become so interested in secularism. But worship is simply this: there are some core commitments at the root of your life that determine your decisions, behavior, emotional reactions, etc. At the very center of your person are things that you love and have committed yourself to. You serve these things and look to these things to do you good. You pursue these things. You're married to these things. That's worship.
And what's wrong with worshipping things other than God?

In this sense all people are religious. Some religious devotion takes the traditional form wherein the worshipper looks to personal deities. Other religious devotion takes on a secular form wherein the worshipper looks to a person, themselves, money, a career, children, material possessions, etc.
So what's wrong with that? A man can't live on worship alone. It ain't gonna put food on the table.

Think of all the good things that we value. I'll just name a few. Power, freedom, and comfort. These are valuable. A god is anything you look to for these things. Money can become a god when we look to money to give us power, freedom, and comfort.
But money does give you power, freedom and comfort. Praying to God for these things doesn't seem to work so people have to work for them themselves. I can see now why people might turn their devotion to their careers and money more than God.

Sex can become a god when we look to it to give us these things. Worshippers of the living God look to the creator to provide these things and worshippers of idols look for them in the creation.
And why is that bad?
 
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Deidre32

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The simple truth about religions, is that Muslims think Christians are 'wrong.' Christians think Muslims are 'wrong.' Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. The eastern faiths have nothing to do with any of this. The Abrahamic faiths agree on some things, disagree on many other things. On and on it goes.

No one knows with certainty, if a god exists or doesn't. I don't believe the Bible to be the 'word of God.' I was a Christian for a long time, and led a very prayerful life during that time. It's been a long and twisting road from belief to disbelief, but I'm not opposed to believing that a god 'may' exist. I'm just of the opinion that should one exist, he/it isn't remotely like the Biblical 'version.'

Atheism isn't a cold way of viewing life, not at all. And frankly, many atheists, me included, are uncertain as well. I can't say to you that a god does not exist because how would I know? But, a religous person can't honestly say he does, with certainty, either. That's the issue that I have with religious people, is that many don't seem willing to admit that their faith isn't based on facts. Faith isn't about facts. It's about believing in something, even if there are no facts. The Bible is not a factual book. An encyclopedia is, but the Bible is not. To believe the stories in the Bible, requires faith.

I don't believe in the Bible, anymore. But, I think it's important to note that doesn't mean I think it's out of the question for a god to exist.
 
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