Are the 10 Commandments Required for Christians? Is the Sabbath important to God?

[SAAN]

I spoke with a Seven Day Adventist this weekend and they asked this question...Is following the 10 Commandments Required for Christians?

Can Christians:
Have and worship other Gods?
Make graven images, and bow down to them?
Take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?
Forget about the Sabbath and not keep it holy?
Dishonor their father and thy mother?
Kill?
Steal?
Commit Adultery ?
Bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Covet?

So their usual question is why do Christians think only 9 of the 10 C's apply to them when God wrote it down with his own finger, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Jesus said he didnt come to abolish any laws, the apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus death?


How do you respond to people when they try to corner you on this issue?

 

[LarryP2]

I spoke with a Seven Day Adventist this weekend and they asked this question...Is following the 10 Commandments Required for Christians?

Can Christians:
Have and worship other Gods?
Make graven images, and bow down to them?
Take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?
Forget about the Sabbath and not keep it holy?
Dishonor their father and thy mother?
Kill?
Steal?
Commit Adultery ?
Bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Covet?
So their usual question is why do Christians think only 9 of the 10 C's apply to them when God wrote it down with his own finger, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Jesus said he didnt come to abolish any laws, the apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus death?
How do you respond to people when they try to corner you on this issue?

Adventists have an incredibly touching and idealistic idea of what the Dead Hand of Law can accomplish. They are extremely ignorant. They have watched far too much Law and Order and CSI for their own good. Their silly argument that Jesus was preaching against the "Man-made interpretations" of the law is comically naive. They just have no idea of how the law really works. I practiced Criminal Defense Law for 19 years, including 5 capital murder trials and over 400 Felony jury trials. I have sat thousands of times in jail interview rooms whiffing the stench of lives hopelessly ruined and degraded by a background in legalistic religion. Nobody has ever been healed or became a better person by following the Law, or trying to. Paul writ that large in all of his Epistles. It makes me clinically-depressed just to write this paragraph.

I used to go out of the courtroom during breaks and just vomit because of the way I wasted my life, for nothing accomplished, and participating in the sheer, agonizing black hole of the application of the Law. For absolutely nothing. Nobody wins. Ever.

"Dear God: There has to be something better," I used to bawl, on my knees, while dry heaving.

Paul held the coats while St. Stephen was getting stoned. He was a member of the Sanhedrin and an expert on the Jewish Law. I know deep down inside he stood there and got sick to his stomach, watching the torture and murder of that helpless Saint, all in careful, exacting compliance with the Mosaic code. None of the Ten Commandments were broken during the murder of St. Stephen and his absurd trial on false charges!!! Paul was sick to his stomach, well before he was struck blind. I know exactly what that feels like. Oh how many times I wished I too could have been struck blind and relieved from the unrelieved misery of interpreting and enforcing the Dead Hand of the Law!

Brutally-ignorant Judaizing Adventists yelp "You want to get rid of the Ten Commandments so that you can commit Adultery and murder and shoplift at Walmart." That is not why you want to get rid of the Ten Commandments. For the Early Christians "getting rid of the Ten Commandments" meant the cardboard box full of their Lion tooth-nicked bloody bones would be kept by their Church as a Holy Relic. There is no record of any of them keeping the Sabbath. People like that do not need piddling rules to deter them from inadvertently glancing at internet porn.

Adventists are just pikers. They can keep the Sabbath perfectly by snoozing and burping in their Lazy Boy Recliner after overdosing on green bean casserole at the potluck. It is simply the latest reincarnation of the Gallatians, Ebionite and Judaizing heresies, all slicked up with multi-media presentations.

All I know now is Grace. The Massive Nuclear Explosion of it on Resurrection Day has left me blinded by the Son. It has rocked the world. And mine.

 

[Willie T]

I love that last paragraph.

 

[LarryP2]

I love that last paragraph.

It's true. The Ten Commandments on their BEST day are at best, a carping, meddling distraction from the law that is actually in effect now: Having the Great Commandments of Christ written into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who gives us the Power to carry them out. That is the New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-35
New International Version (NIV)
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[a] them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

The Holy Spirit is NOT available to assist in keeping any part of the Old Covenant/Mosaic Law, including the Ten Commandments. The Holy Spirit is diametrically-opposed to the Ten Commandments.

New Covenant Christianity = The Holy Spirit operating through you, to Act out the Great Commandments of Jesus Christ.
Old Covenant, Ebionite, Gallatians, Judaizing heresy of Christianity = Trying and failing to keep the Old Testament Law.

Just so that I cannot be misunderstood, I will repeat myself. You can choose the Holy Spirit. Or you can Choose the Ten Commandments.

Choose wisely.

 

[Steeno7]

Adventists have an incredibly touching and idealistic idea of what the Dead Hand of Law can accomplish. They are extremely ignorant. They have watched far too much Law and Order and CSI for their own good. Their silly argument that Jesus was preaching against the "Man-made interpretations" of the law is comically naive. They just have no idea of how the law really works. I practiced Criminal Defense Law for 19 years, including 5 capital murder trials and over 400 Felony jury trials. I have sat thousands of times in jail interview rooms whiffing the stench of lives hopelessly ruined and degraded by a background in legalistic religion. Nobody has ever been healed or became a better person by following the Law, or trying to. Paul writ that large in all of his Epistles. It makes me clinically-depressed just to write this paragraph.

I used to go out of the courtroom during breaks and just vomit because of the way I wasted my life, for nothing accomplished, and participating in the sheer, agonizing black hole of the application of the Law. For absolutely nothing. Nobody wins. Ever.

"Dear God: There has to be something better," I used to bawl, on my knees, while dry heaving.

Paul held the coats while St. Stephen was getting stoned. He was a member of the Sanhedrin and an expert on the Jewish Law. I know deep down inside he stood there and got sick to his stomach, watching the torture and murder of that helpless Saint, all in careful, exacting compliance with the Mosaic code. None of the Ten Commandments were broken during the murder of St. Stephen and his absurd trial on false charges!!! Paul was sick to his stomach, well before he was struck blind. I know exactly what that feels like. Oh how many times I wished I too could have been struck blind and relieved from the unrelieved misery of interpreting and enforcing the Dead Hand of the Law!

Brutally-ignorant Judaizing Adventists yelp "You want to get rid of the Ten Commandments so that you can commit Adultery and murder and shoplift at Walmart." That is not why you want to get rid of the Ten Commandments. For the Early Christians "getting rid of the Ten Commandments" meant the cardboard box full of their Lion tooth-nicked bloody bones would be kept by their Church as a Holy Relic. There is no record of any of them keeping the Sabbath. People like that do not need piddling rules to deter them from inadvertently glancing at internet porn.

Adventists are just pikers. They can keep the Sabbath perfectly by snoozing and burping in their Lazy Boy Recliner after overdosing on green bean casserole at the potluck. It is simply the latest reincarnation of the Gallatians, Ebionite and Judaizing heresies, all slicked up with multi-media presentations.

All I know now is Grace. The Massive Nuclear Explosion of it on Resurrection Day has left me blinded by the Son. It has rocked the world. And mine.

Rocked my world also. The letter kills...thanks for keeping it real.

 

[childofdust]

I spoke with a Seven Day Adventist this weekend and they asked this question...Is following the 10 Commandments Required for Christians?

Jewish Christians, yes. Gentile Christians, no.

An example of a commandment that applies to Jews absolutely, but not to gentiles absolutely:

As Exodus 20:4-5a states: “Do not make an idol for yourself, whether in the shape of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them or worship them” (NRSV)

A Jewish Christian may not do any of these things. A gentile Christian, if he or she comes to the understanding that a god is not really true or real, may make a graven image because it doesn't represent anything true to its maker. Or if that gentile is living in a polytheistic society or in a position that requires him/her to sacrifice to or bow down to another god, a gentile can do so as long as it is nothing more than the ritual or act and he/she is not actually honoring that other god in their heart.

As an example from scripture of how a gentile believer doesn't have to keep this commandment:

Naaman, a gentile leader of the kingdom of Aram, after coming to believe that “there is no god in the whole world except in Israel” (2 Kgs 5:15), came to Elisha and told him “When my master, [the king of Aram], goes into the temple of Rimmon to worship and I, as his right-hand man, bow in the temple of Rimmon-- when I bow in the temple of Rimmon, may the LORD pardon your servant in this matter." And Elisha, instead of rebuking him, said “Go in peace.” (2 Kgs 5:18-19)

Another commandment a gentile doesn't have to keep:

Exodus 10:8 "Remember to sanctify the day of the Sabbath."

We can see here that the commandment about Sabbath is not simply about keeping it, but keeping it HOLY. Sanctifying it. Only Jews are commanded in scripture to keep holy. Holiness and purity laws, by definition, only apply to Jews. Nowhere in scripture is it ever stated that gentiles have to keep themselves holy according to the Law. Acts 15:28-29 supports this by saying that gentiles are free to be profane in almost anything except a few things that would prevent them from coming together to share communion with their Jewish brothers and sisters (they should not eat blood, eat idol sacrifices, eat what is strangled, or commit fornication). And ancient Jewish tradition affirms that gentiles are not part of the holiness laws. The Babylonian Gemara on Mishnah Pesahim 8:8 states: “In the preceding year he had not yet been an Israelite and therefore not subject to uncleanness, while this year he is now an Israelite and is subject to the law of uncleanness.”

So we have not only statements from the early Jewish leaders of the church, but from Jewish leaders outside the church that gentiles were not required to fulfill the holiness and purity strictures encompassed in the Law. And the Sabbath is one of them. Indeed, elsewhere in the NT, the fact that gentiles need not sanctify the Sabbath is quite explicitly stated: “Therefore don't let anyone judge you (the Colossians, i.e., gentiles) in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day.” (Col 2:16)

So their usual question is why do Christians think only 9 of the 10 C's apply to them when God wrote it down with his own finger, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Jesus said he didnt come to abolish any laws, the apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus death?

All 10 C's apply to Jewish followers. None of them apply to gentile followers. Two examples above, taken directly from scripture and tradition, prove the second statement. As for Jesus and the apostles keeping the laws...they were Jews. That doesn't negate anything I have stated. Nowhere are gentiles addressed in the 10 C's. The 10 C's state explicitly and literally who they are commanded to: “who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery.” (Exodus 20:2). YHWH did not bring me or any of my ancestors out of Egypt. Therefore I do not fall into the “you” being addressed by them. And, indeed, it is clear that I cannot fall into that category since I as a gentile cannot sanctify Sabbath anyway. Only a Jew can. Which is why the NT does not command me as a gentile to sanctify the Sabbath and directly commands other believers not to judge me when I don't.

 

[LarryP2]

The 10 C's state explicitly and literally who they are commanded to: “who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery.” (Exodus 20:2).

What if I told you that some Adventists might be THINKING they were brought out of slavery from the Land of Egypt?

Additionally, long-standing Judaic law has always been quite specific: Gentiles who have not fully-converted to Judaism and who attempt to keep the Sabbath or to read Torah are to be put to death. All of the Apostles were well aware of this strict prohibition against Gentiles keeping any of the Mosaic Law, especially the Sabbath. Under the Law of Judaism, a unconverted Gentile keeping the Sabbath is akin to Adultery, therefore punishable by stoning.

Additionally, the Didache (AD 50), which many experts regard as the transcript from the Council at Jerusalem and predates most of the New Testament, Christians are specifically required to "Break Bread" on the "Lord's Day." In early Christianity, "The Lord's Day" is ALWAYS the First Day. ALWAYS. NOWHERE in the New Testament or in the Didache are Christians instructed to keep the Ten Commandments or the Sabbath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache
http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html

Adventism is simply a warmed-over technologically-slicked-up heresy that went under various names in First Century Christianity. "Judaizing;" "Ebionite;" and "Gallatians" heresies were all familiar to the Apostles and denounced and weeded out very quickly from the Body of Christ. Their Sabbath fetish is simply a transparent effort to denigrate the Resurrection. They attack Sunday keeping and celebrating Easter for just that very reason: Adventism is a "Salvation by Works" program that requires perfect Sabbath Keeping. Between their Sabbath and "Investigative Judgment" doctrines, very little was accomplished on the Cross. But tragically for them, none of them have ever REMOTELY kept the Sabbath, in spite of all of their vain and silly efforts otherwise. The big difference between Christians and Adventists are that Christians were commanded NOT to even TRY and keep the Sabbath, so they don't pretend that they do, unlike Adventistism. And SDA's nonsensical "Investigative Judgment" doctrine has been savaged and debunked by most of their own best theologians.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

Moving from General Theology to Sabbath and The Law

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[from scratch]

Where are all our friends?

 

[BobRyan]

I spoke with a Seven Day Adventist this weekend and they asked this question...Is following the 10 Commandments Required for Christians?

Can Christians:
Have and worship other Gods?
Make graven images, and bow down to them?
Take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?
Forget about the Sabbath and not keep it holy?
Dishonor their father and thy mother?
Kill?
Steal?
Commit Adultery ?
Bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Covet?

So their usual question is why do Christians think only 9 of the 10 C's apply to them when God wrote it down with his own finger, Jesus kept the Sabbath, Jesus said he didnt come to abolish any laws, the apostles kept the Sabbath even after Jesus death?

The Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith argue that All Ten Commandments are applicable to the saints today -- as do the NT writers.

 

[LarryP2]

The Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith argue that All Ten Commandments are applicable to the saints today -- as do the NT writers.

Except both authorities absolutely and completely reject the Seventh Day Adventist conception of the Sabbath. What they mean by the "Ten commandments" has nothing to do with the points you are trying to argue. They argue that the "Ten Commandments" are "applicable today" insofar as Christianity unequivocally-renounced the Jewish Sabbath at the Resurrection and replaced it with Sunday celebration of that central event.

To deceitfully argue that they support your ideas about the Sabbath is just incredibly dishonest.

They would also be aghast and horrified by the Seventh Day Adventist anti-Gospel, anti-Resurrection doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment," wherein your performance as a Sabbath Keeper is judged, to determine your qualification for Salvation.

 

[BobRyan]

Except both authorities absolutely and completely reject the Seventh Day Adventist conception of the Sabbath. .

Here are the points the BCF and WCF make in similar fashion regarding God's TEN Commandments still binding on the saints - #67

A point already addressed here regarding the fact that I agree with them on 6 out of 7 of their main points--

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Not sure why you don't simply follow the posted link and then respond with something to carry your argument beyond that point.

 

[LarryP2]

Here are the points the BCF and WCF make in similar fashion regarding God's TEN Commandments still binding on the saints
Not sure why you don't simply follow the posted link and then respond with something to carry your argument beyond that point.

Because I knew that you were being deceitful about what your sources were saying on the issue of Sabbath versus Sunday for Christians.

Here's my response. I have direct quotes from each and every single source you list as supporting your Sabbath Spam posts. Each and every single one of them advocate Sunday worship in place of 7th Day Sabbath worship. ALL of them denounce the Sabbath as an obsolete and defunct day. By using these sources deceitfully to support your contention that Christians should keep the Jewish Sabbath, you have repeatedly committed a massive fraud and deception. It is an act of continual dishonesty for you to deceitfully represent that ANY of the sources support your contention that the 7th Day Sabbath is required for Christians:


Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week — the Lord’s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

 

[AMR]

Worth a read:

http://christchurchrp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sabbath-Letter.pdf

 

[LarryP2]

Worth a read:

http://christchurchrp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sabbath-Letter.pdf

Here's the exact language from the Standards quoted in the letter you linked to:

"....from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord's Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath."
The Westminster Standards - Table of Contents

I posted that quickly because Sabbath Spam posters will deceitfully use anything they can to cause Christians to commemorate the obsolete Jewish 7th Day Sabbath. Their emphasis on the Sabbath is specifically designed to divert attention from the Resurrection, and trap the biblicaly-illiterate into a non-Christian system of Salvation by Works. Sabbath Spam posters elevate the Sabbath far and above the Resurrection as the most important day in history. For them, in a contest between the Resurrection and the 7th day Sabbath, the Sabbath wins hands down.

This quote nicely sums up the motivation behind the Sabbath Spam posts:

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist

For 2,000 years, Christianity has emphatically rejected the vile Judaizing and Ebionite heresies that required Christians to commemorate the obsolete Jewish Sabbath.

 

[branchofthevine]

It is interesting that Paul writes "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16-17). He clearly shows that there are certain laws which are not relevant to the Christian because they were simply shadows without substance, but now the true substance, (Christ) has appeared. Within the overall structure of the chapter, Paul is clearly dealing with Judaizers who are trying to get the gentiles to obey the Jewish law. Paul doesn't just say "don't be circumcised" but includes these others laws, the dietary laws, the calendar festivals, and new moons and sabbaths. Now I know that the SDA like to point out that there are special sabbaths and regular weekly sabbaths, and that Paul is just talking about the regular sabbaths here, but consider this. From Romans through the Revelation, do a word search of the word "sabbath" in Biblegateway, I did with the NKJV (because I use that version) and the only reference that you might find is Colossians 2, it's the only one I found. (it is actually the only place)

That is strange. If the SDA are correct and the sabbath has such importance, why does it not get more press within the Apostle's teaching? Surely such an important law which is to be kept should appear more often, but it doesn't.

Well, how about Jesus? Let's look at our Saviour

How about John 15:18
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

hm.. it seems Jesus broke the sabbath, but that can't be right.
How about John 9:16: Therefore some of the Pharisees said, “This Man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath.”Others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” And there was a division among them.

The Pharisees were claiming Jesus wasn't from God because He didn't keep the sabbath. That's two times now that we are told Jesus didn't keep the sabbath according to the Pharisees. Note that Jesus never tries to defend himself and say "oh, I wasn't breaking the sabbath at all". Everyone just knows that he did, but they see that He can't be a sinner because of the miracles that he did.


Jesus does teach about the Sabbath. Matthew 12:5 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?" He reminds his audience that Priest profaned the sabbath and are blameless. BLAMELESS. Now, that certainly isn't the SDA teaching, but it is Jesus' teaching. Why are they blameless? They are blameless because of their heart, Jesus goes on to rebuke the Pharisees "I desire mercy and not sacrifice,"

Jesus is greater than the Temple, and greater than the sabbath, It is quite clear that a strict obedience to the sabbath is not what Jesus came to bring, nor ever commands it, but defends his disciples when they break the sabbath, and constantly works on it.

What we need then is to change our views of the sabbath since the sabbath was made for man, and not the reverse (Mark 2:27).

When you read the Prophets, especially Isaiah 1:13-15 and Amos 5:21-14 you will find that they are against empty religious rituals, Isaiah cites the Sabbath as one of them, but what is important to God is executing justice and righteousness and having a clean heart. In fact the whole prophecy of the New Covenant in Deuteronomy, in Jeremiah, and Ezekiel is about the Covenant written on the heart.


Yes, the seventh day was blessed in the creation, yes it was given to the Jews, and yes there are many verses within the old testament about keeping it pure and undefiled, and yes there are many events in the early Church that happen on the sabbaths, but there is no sustainable teaching from the NT that the strict observance of the sabbath is vital to the Christian, gentile or jew, and there is no sustainable evidence that we will be judged based off of our observance to the sabbath.

We are not made for the sabbath, it was made for us. If you want to observe a day of rest, go ahead. If you don't want to, don't. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, and we are bound in Him in unity. If you want to join with Jesus as he speaks in John 5:17 "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working" then go ahead.


The sabbath points to Jesus who is the Lord of the sabbath, who gives the ultimate rest, remember the words of Jesus "Come to me all who are weary and I will give you rest?, is pointing to a greater issue, we need regenerated hearts that seek God, hearts filled with the Holy Spirit, not strict obedience to the law. Don't let yourself be enslaved again to the law by thinking you need to obey the word of the law because if you are in Christ you are in grace, walking according to the Spirit of Life which dwells in you. If you have the Spirit, which you do if you are in Christ, then you walk according to a greater covenant, not the one of Moses, but one purchased for us by the blood of Christ to free us from the law of sin and death and deliver us to life.

 

[BobRyan]

<obligatory factless rant deleted here>... I have direct quotes from each and every single source you list as supporting your Sabbath Spam posts. Each and every single one of them advocate Sunday worship in place of 7th Day Sabbath worship.

hint: All you have is quotes that agree with my 7 point list already posted ...

=========================================

Here are the points the BCF and WCF make in similar fashion regarding God's TEN Commandments still binding on the saints - #67

A point already addressed here regarding the fact that I agree with them on 6 out of 7 of their main points--

For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Not sure why you don't simply follow the posted link and then respond with something to carry your argument beyond that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a great example of that 7 point list coming up in D.L.Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments -

============================

Case in point -- Here is what D.L. Moody actually said --

Here is an example of one of the "bend the commandment" but do not get rid of it - arguments.

=============================== D.L. Moody sermon on the TEN Commandments

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/FONT]

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[LarryP2]

Here is a great example of that 7 point list coming up in D.L.Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments -

Moody would be horrified and livid that his quotes would be deceitfully manipulated to perpetuate a heretical fraud that had been condemned and eliminated in the Second Century. There is a 100 percent chance that he would agree with Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr in condemning Sabbath-Keeping as a satanic heresy. Your use of Moody's quotes to peddle your fraudulent Sabbath Spam is incredibly dishonest.


Christianity commemorates the Resurrection on Sunday and on Easter. It has done so since the First year of Christianity.

Judaizing and Ebionite anti-Christian heretics insist on commemorating the Jewish 7th Day Sabbath. They still do. But that is NOT Christianity.

ALL of your sources merely endorse what Christianity has been teaching for 2,000 years. NONE of them support your focus on the Sabbath one tiny bit. They ALL reject the 7th Day Sabbath. For you to deceitfully claim that they support your Sabbath Spam arguments is incredibly dishonest and it willfully misrepresents their positions. I've no doubt they'd be horrified that their statements were being used to revive a Satanic, anti-Christian heresy that Christianity condemned and defeated 2,000 years ago.

I am glad the following authorities stand for precisely the OPPOSITE of what is deceitfully-misrepresented by the Sabbath Spam Posters. All of these authorities strongly RENOUNCE 7th Day Sabbath Keeping and strongly support the Christian view that has renounced the Ebionite and Judaizing Sabbath-Keeping heresies for the last 2,000 years.

Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week &#8212; the Lord&#8217;s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord&#8217;s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord&#8217;s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment

"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist

 

[disciple1]

Exodus chapter 20 verse 10
but the seventh day is a Sabbath to tho Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.
Exodus chapter 35 verse 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.
So if you want to follow the Sabbath you can't have your stove on or refrigerator, because that would cause people to work, or do you just want to keep a little of the Sabbath, which brings me to my original post.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.