Which came first? plants or animals?

[Aman777]

This is how you answer the question "did you read all of the bible?"

Dear PS, It's like asking someone for the time and them telling you how to build a watch. I try to thank you for allowing me to present my views. If I've slipped up, take this as a belated thank you for your patience, and thank you for allowing me to tell everyone about our Awesome God. His name is Jesus. God Bless you.

BTW, I've read and sudied ALL of the Bible, and it's True in EVERY way. ALL of it is the story of the Truth. Jesus said, I am the Truth. Jhn 14:6 The Bible is the story of Jesus, the Alpha and the Omaga, the beginning and the end. Rev 22:13

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

You never addressed the point, how do you know you aren't just another prehistoric savage in god's eyes?

Dear PS, Because I discovered that Humans are God's Children, the first made and the highest of His Creation, and destined to rule Heaven with Jesus. We will have complete dominion, rule, stewardship, over everything our Father has, thanks to Jesus.

Prehistoric people are innocent, like children, and will fill heaven. It will be our task to Judge their deeds and point them in the right direction. Just because innocent prehistoric people are not Humans, doesn't mean that they don't have a place in Heaven. Remember that God calls them, the sons of God. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear PS, Because I discovered that Humans are God's Children, the first made and the highest of His Creation, and destined to rule Heaven with Jesus. We will have complete dominion, rule, stewardship, over everything our Father has, thanks to Jesus.

Prehistoric people are innocent, like children, and will fill heaven. It will be our task to Judge their deeds and point them in the right direction. Just because innocent prehistoric people are not Humans, doesn't mean that they don't have a place in Heaven. Remember that God calls them, the sons of God. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

You discovered that where exactly? In the bible, which has human authors, god inspired or not, is it really all that shocking that humans would be placed as special? Perhaps god said human, but our concept of human isn't the same as god's? Intelligence is subjective; it is very possible god doesn't view us as intelligent at all. Jesus dying for our sins doesn't sit well, in case you didn't notice, it doesn't make sense that people would have to kill a person who was without sin to cleanse us of sins, which include murder. How much sense does that make that an intelligent species would believe that killing a good person could absolve them of sins? It sounds like a barbaric and gullible species, not an intelligent and special one. How really far off are we from chimpanzees? Do you not see that what we consider humanity is the most disfunctional, violent, bigoted excuse for a species that has to live in groups to survive? If Noah ever arrived as you say, our ancestors and other bipedal apes were the prehistoric savages, and the human ancestor the most savage of the savages, which is why Homo sapiens are the only remaining species in the genus left; we savages killed all the others. And once we killed all the other bipedal apes, we turned on each other. We aren't a species worth saving, we are a species worth destroying.

Pessimistic response end.

 

[Aman777]

You discovered that where exactly? In the bible, which has human authors, god inspired or not, is it really all that shocking that humans would be placed as special? Perhaps god said human, but our concept of human isn't the same as god's? Intelligence is subjective; it is very possible god doesn't view us as intelligent at all. Jesus dying for our sins doesn't sit well, in case you didn't notice, it doesn't make sense that people would have to kill a person who was without sin to cleanse us of sins, which include murder. How much sense does that make that an intelligent species would believe that killing a good person could absolve them of sins?

Dear PS, The Bible tells us that unbelievers will see it's Truth as "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 You just confirmed God's Holy Word from more than 2k years ago. What you don't seem to understand is that ONE is responsible for the entire Creation. He caused the problem by making a man with free will, and the man failed to be perfect and every man died. Someone MUST pay the penalty for this imperfection in order for Heaven to be perfectly Just and perfect. ONLY God is perfect and ONLY Jesus is without sin.

God accepted this Sacrifice of the sinless-as payment in full for everyone who would place their Faith in Jesus, instead of themselves. That's because the ONLY thing good about Humans is the Faith in Jesus, and that's a Gift of God, lest they run around and boast of it.

It sounds like a barbaric and gullible species, not an intelligent and special one. How really far off are we from chimpanzees? Do you not see that what we consider humanity is the most disfunctional, violent, bigoted excuse for a species that has to live in groups to survive? If Noah ever arrived as you say, our ancestors and other bipedal apes were the prehistoric savages, and the human ancestor the most savage of the savages, which is why Homo sapiens are the only remaining species in the genus left; we savages killed all the others. And once we killed all the other bipedal apes, we turned on each other. We aren't a species worth saving, we are a species worth destroying.

Pessimistic response end.

And so is the conclusion of godless Evolism. It leaves humans with NO Hope, but rips it from them with it's false teachings, such as: that we are nothing but animals, here for a short while, and then we die and rot. An Evol end is a Pessimistic End. Short on Truth and Reality and long on false assumptions. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dear SZ, Be more specific or everyone will see the weakness of your argument. Show me where Science refutes me. The ONLY "so called" Science I disagree with, is the False Theory of Evolution, and only the part of it which Falsely teaches that Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. That kinda limits the argument. Doesn't it?

Since you seem to find my views so easy to refute, try it without using the False ToE to support your ideas. Then, everyone will see your False ToE, for the UnScientific, False Assumption, it most certainly is. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

All life that would eventually inhabit Earth living for the first approximately 1,000 years in a biospehere -- how big did you say? 25 miles in diameter? -- sunk at the bottom of a Turkish lake.

What's not to refute?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear PS, The Bible tells us that unbelievers will see it's Truth as "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 You just confirmed God's Holy Word from more than 2k years ago. What you don't seem to understand is that ONE is responsible for the entire Creation. He caused the problem by making a man with free will, and the man failed to be perfect and every man died. Someone MUST pay the penalty for this imperfection in order for Heaven to be perfectly Just and perfect. ONLY God is perfect and ONLY Jesus is without sin.

God accepted this Sacrifice of the sinless-as payment in full for everyone who would place their Faith in Jesus, instead of themselves. That's because the ONLY thing good about Humans is the Faith in Jesus, and that's a Gift of God, lest they run around and boast of it.

And so is the conclusion of godless Evolism. It leaves humans with NO Hope, but rips it from them with it's false teachings, such as: that we are nothing but animals, here for a short while, and then we die and rot. An Evol end is a Pessimistic End. Short on Truth and Reality and long on false assumptions. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Hardly, predicting something that sounds a bit nuts is going to have critics isn't much of a prediction but rather it would be more surprising and miraculous if that prediction turned out to be wrong. It is about as amazing to me as someone walking up and saying "one day you are going to die". Well no duh, I would be amazed if I didn't.

And you are additionally wrong about how evolution treats it. Evolution is change, we might have this violent past, but once that violence stops being advantageous, the human race might slowly become more peaceful as a species. Whereas religion claims that all humans are wretched and our only hope is worship, and belief alone (depending on the sect) can be enough no matter how awful you behave. Religion is defeatist, humans will always be as they are, they cannot change. The evolutionary idea is that if we try, we can improve ourselves.

 

[Styx87]

Dear PS, The Bible tells us that unbelievers will see it's Truth as "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 You just confirmed God's Holy Word from more than 2k years ago.

*snip

Your argument is invalid. Simply making predictions doesn't mean anything especially when the chances of being fulfilled are so high. Example? Then president Dwight D. Eisenhower predicted that people would would one day deny that the Holocaust ever happened and took steps to record specific details about their heinous treatment of the Jews such that any attempts at denying them in the future would be met with failure.

The same dayhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#cite_note-19 I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never been able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain however, that I have never at any time experienced an equal sense of shock.

I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that "the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda". Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and the British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.

Unfortunately Eisenhower's prediction did come true. That however doesn't make him a prophet. It makes him intelligent. Fortune Tellers are very crafty at weaving these predictions to make them sound genuine. They tell you how you feel and predicts your future based on the things everyone feels and situations that nearly everyone can interpret as being specific to them. They do this by being ambiguous and saying things like "I see that you're unsure about your future, and you worry about money!"... Well DUH! Doesn't everybody?!

The predictions in the bible are open to interpretation for the same thing. The end of days for instance had been interpreted as Nuclear War, Meteor Impact, Super Volcano, a star in our near vicinity going Super Nova. All of which involve a fiery death for everything on earth (which fits with the biblical account to some accuracy) and all of which have a reasonably high probability of occurring. If any of them happen people will say the bible predicted it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dear SZ, Be more specific or everyone will see the weakness of your argument. Show me where Science refutes me. The ONLY "so called" Science I disagree with, is the False Theory of Evolution, and only the part of it which Falsely teaches that Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. That kinda limits the argument. Doesn't it?

Since you seem to find my views so easy to refute, try it without using the False ToE to support your ideas. Then, everyone will see your False ToE, for the UnScientific, False Assumption, it most certainly is. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Yet if the theory of evolution were false you should be able to show that with scientific evidence. Science refutes you with the theory of evolution. Like it or not it is a scientific theory. By rejecting it you reject science. And in fact you reject quite a bit of science.

Also, what was the need of the Ark if the animals were going to be there anyway? The lack of population bottlenecks shows that despite what the Bible says, all that walk on the Earth was not killed. Nor do we see any of the species that were supposedly brought on the Ark to save them.

May you be touched by His Noodly Appendages.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dear PS, No, they didn't have enough sense for that. They are innocent creatures and they will be found throughout our Universe. God commanded that "every living thing that moveth" be created and brought forth from the water on the 5th Day (3.7 Billion years ago in man's time). Gen 1:21

Thoughout our Universe, wherever we find liquid water, we will find these innocent creatures. We only have a thousand years to gather them all up, AFTER Jesus returns to our Earth at the end of time. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

If they're such innocent creatures, why do we need to gather them up? They seem to be doing fine without us.

 

[Aman777]

All life that would eventually inhabit Earth living for the first approximately 1,000 years in a biospehere -- how big did you say? 25 miles in diameter? -- sunk at the bottom of a Turkish lake.

What's not to refute?

Dear Valentine, I'm disappointed in your scholarship. Your views are twisted and have no relationship to what I post. I have NEVER claimed that ALL life, that would eventually inhabit Earth, lived for a thousand years in a Biosphere in a lake.

1. Noah brought only 7 other people with him.
2. He could have brought LESS than 100 animals and fulfilled the wishes of God (Elohim) and LORD God (YHWH)
3. The first firmament or boundary of Adam's world was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19 It's NOT there, except in the sand, it has returned unto.
4. I have NEVER posted how long the firmament had been in the Lake before it was clean dissolved.

Your idea that Noah brought every creature, which would inhabit Earth is in direct opposition, to what I post. Noah brought a few humans and animals with him. I believe they are those creatures which Jesus made with His own Hands, and demonstrates God's Love for all living beings. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

Hardly, predicting something that sounds a bit nuts is going to have critics isn't much of a prediction but rather it would be more surprising and miraculous if that prediction turned out to be wrong. It is about as amazing to me as someone walking up and saying "one day you are going to die". Well no duh, I would be amazed if I didn't.

And you are additionally wrong about how evolution treats it. Evolution is change, we might have this violent past, but once that violence stops being advantageous, the human race might slowly become more peaceful as a species. Whereas religion claims that all humans are wretched and our only hope is worship, and belief alone (depending on the sect) can be enough no matter how awful you behave. Religion is defeatist, humans will always be as they are, they cannot change. The evolutionary idea is that if we try, we can improve ourselves.

Dear PS, Thanks for your opinion. If you are correct, No problem, but IF you are wrong, and you wake up at the Judgment, it will be too late to change your mind. IF I, as a Christian, am wrong, NO problem. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dear Valentine, I'm disappointed in your scholarship. Your views are twisted and have no relationship to what I post. I have NEVER claimed that ALL life, that would eventually inhabit Earth, lived for a thousand years in a Biosphere in a lake.

It is so difficult to keep track of all your whimsy -- more difficult to care.

Nevertheless, please continue to entertain.

1. Noah brought only 7 other people with him.

Ballpark figure -- how many were left to die?

2. He could have brought LESS than 100 animals and fulfilled the wishes of God (Elohim) and LORD God (YHWH)

No, he couldn't have -- Gen. 6:19 is pretty clear that Noah was to bring 2 of every living thing. Gen 7:3 is equally clear that Noah is to take 7 of every clean living thing and 2 of every unclean thing.

Those numbers are going to add up pretty quickly, Aman.

3. The first firmament or boundary of Adam's world was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19 It's NOT there, except in the sand, it has returned unto.

God destroyed the evidence, leaving room for you to speculate.

4. I have NEVER posted how long the firmament had been in the Lake before it was clean dissolved.

That's an oversight on your part, then. Provide some useful information.

Your idea that Noah brought every creature, which would inhabit Earth is in direct opposition, to what I post.

What you post is in direct opposition to what the Bible says.

Noah brought a few humans and animals with him. I believe they are those creatures which Jesus made with His own Hands, and demonstrates God's Love for all living beings. God Bless you.

God said 7/2 of everything. I can only speculate that Noah, being a righteous man (of how many, we'll never be sure; awfully cramped in that biosphere), would follow God's instructions to the letter. Your idea only works if Noah cuts corners.

 

[Aman777]

Yet if the theory of evolution were false you should be able to show that with scientific evidence. Science refutes you with the theory of evolution. Like it or not it is a scientific theory. By rejecting it you reject science. And in fact you reject quite a bit of science.

Also, what was the need of the Ark if the animals were going to be there anyway? The lack of population bottlenecks shows that despite what the Bible says, all that walk on the Earth was not killed. Nor do we see any of the species that were supposedly brought on the Ark to save them.

Dear SZ, I do show that Evolution is untrue Scientifically. It's because there is NO mechanism to implant Human intelligence into the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes. Evolution measures the changes in the allele frequency in a population over time but does NOT produce the unique intelligence of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans, in Apes.

I agree. Noah brought some creatures with him, but Noah's sons and daughters in law brought their children with, or inside, them. Noah's grandsons because the ancestors of ALL Humans on this Planet, for through them was Adam's unique Human intelligence passed to this planet of prehistoric people. I believe the creatures selected for the Ark, were those which Jesus made with His own Hands. God Bless you.

in Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

If they're such innocent creatures, why do we need to gather them up? They seem to be doing fine without us.

Dear Valentine, Haven't you heard? At the end of the thousand years, our Cosmos will be burned. Do you just want them to be burned up? Where's the Love? God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dear SZ, I do show that Evolution is untrue Scientifically. It's because there is NO mechanism to implant Human intelligence into the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes. Evolution measures the changes in the allele frequency in a population over time but does NOT produce the unique intelligence of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans, in Apes.

I agree. Noah brought some creatures with him, but Noah's sons and daughters in law brought their children with, or inside, them. Noah's grandsons because the ancestors of ALL Humans on this Planet, for through them was Adam's unique Human intelligence passed to this planet of prehistoric people. I believe the creatures selected for the Ark, were those which Jesus made with His own Hands. God Bless you.

in Love,
Aman

Wrong. The mechanism is simply variation and natural selection.

You have given no evidence that there is any difference between human and ape intellect other than the amount of intelligence. Just as the other apes are physically stronger than we are humans are more intelligent than other apes.


Nor have you give any evidence for the existence of Noah, or that there were any creatures in existence that they could have bred with.

Your Ark myth fails too for your particular belief since there was no need for Noah to load the boat with all sorts of animals. Why did Noah do this futile exercise?

If you believe that this world existed outside of Noah's previous world all Noah had to do was to keep he and his family alive.

May you be touched by His Noodly Goodness.

 

[Aman777]

Wrong. The mechanism is simply variation and natural selection.

Dear SZ, No, that's the excuse for your Faith that magical Evolution produced Humanity. It's also the reason you CLAIM that it won't happen again. IOW, it is NOT repeatable. If it was, we would see other Apes becoming Humans, but we don't, and never will.

You have given no evidence that there is any difference between human and ape intellect other than the amount of intelligence. Just as the other apes are physically stronger than we are humans are more intelligent than other apes.

The evidence is in History. Evolism CLAIMS humans became humans some 200k ago, but History records that Humans arrived and began doing Human things, only 10k years ago, in the mountains of Ararat, exactly as God told us they did. The first Human farming, city building, and EVERY other modern Human trait Suddenly appeared and NO godless Evol seems to have noticed.

Nor have you give any evidence for the existence of Noah, or that there were any creatures in existence that they could have bred with.

I've been giving the evidence for more than a year and NO Evol has been able to explain and NO Evol has offered evidence which counters the Historic Fact that Humans arrived for the FIRST time, some 10k years ago. Here is the evidence Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE Can YOU refute the agreement of History with Scripture?

Your Ark myth fails too for your particular belief since there was no need for Noah to load the boat with all sorts of animals. Why did Noah do this futile exercise?

He didn't. The animals came to him and there were not that many. It's another misunderstanding of what is actually written.

If you believe that this world existed outside of Noah's previous world all Noah had to do was to keep he and his family alive.

Where would they go? Their entire Heaven or Universe was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. They floated to the surface of Lake Van, went down into the valleys, and began Farming, building homes and cities, and developing technology, which their ancestors had on the first Earth with NO magical Evolution. Genesis 4

Noah did the best he could and Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to him. Otherwise, we would still be hunting a Cave to sleep in tonight. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dear SZ, No, that's the excuse for your Faith that magical Evolution produced Humanity. It's also the reason you CLAIM that it won't happen again. IOW, it is NOT repeatable. If it was, we would see other Apes becoming Humans, but we don't, and never will.

Wrong. We, unlike you, do not believe in magic. And your misunderstanding of the theory of evolution cannot be used to argue against it.

And please, do not make such foolish statements about "apes turning into humans". Humans are apes. You can try to deny this simple fact but you can not show any support for it at all.

The evidence is in History. Evolism CLAIMS humans became humans some 200k ago, but History records that Humans arrived and began doing Human things, only 10k years ago, in the mountains of Ararat, exactly as God told us they did. The first Human farming, city building, and EVERY other modern Human trait Suddenly appeared and NO godless Evol seems to have noticed.

That is very very weak evidence. And I do believe that the first human farming and city building took place in Egypt, though I could be wrong.

New discoveries, such as farming makes for "sudden" changes.

I've been giving the evidence for more than a year and NO Evol has been able to explain and NO Evol has offered evidence which counters the Historic Fact that Humans arrived for the FIRST time, some 10k years ago. Here is the evidence Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE Can YOU refute the agreement of History with Scripture?

You have been giving very weak evidence. I have asked for stronger stuff than a myth that with much effort can somewhat match reality.

So again:

Where is your evidence?

He didn't. The animals came to him and there were not that many. It's another misunderstanding of what is actually written.

How the animals were gathered is not the point. The fact is that there was no purpose to taking the animals on the Ark. It was an exercise in futility. Why did Noah supposedly take animals on the Ark? It is not the reason given in the Bible.

Where would they go? Their entire Heaven or Universe was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. They floated to the surface of Lake Van, went down into the valleys, and began Farming, building homes and cities, and developing technology, which their ancestors had on the first Earth with NO magical Evolution. Genesis 4

Noah did the best he could and Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to him. Otherwise, we would still be hunting a Cave to sleep in tonight. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Now you are changing your story again.

It seems you think that animals could not have survived without the Ark. Please be consistent.

Your story changes every time somebody challenges your myths.

May you be touched by His Noodly Goodness.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Dear SZ, I do show that Evolution is untrue Scientifically. It's because there is NO mechanism to implant Human intelligence into the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes.

Evolution is the mechanism -- you simply choose not to believe it.

Evolution measures the changes in the allele frequency in a population over time but does NOT produce the unique intelligence of Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans, in Apes.

Actually it does, as humans are apes.

I agree. Noah brought some creatures with him, but Noah's sons and daughters in law brought their children with, or inside, them. Noah's grandsons because the ancestors of ALL Humans on this Planet, for through them was Adam's unique Human intelligence passed to this planet of prehistoric people. I believe the creatures selected for the Ark, were those which Jesus made with His own Hands. God Bless you.

I believe that the Bible says that God explicitly told Noah to take samples of all creatures, not just the ones Jesus made himself.

 

[EternalDragon]

Wrong. We, unlike you, do not believe in magic. And your misunderstanding of the theory of evolution cannot be used to argue against it.

Yet you just said above that intelligence came about by "simply natural selection and variation".

And please, do not make such foolish statements about "apes turning into humans". Humans are apes. You can try to deny this simple fact but you can not show any support for it at all.

You, likewise, can't show any support that humans can be classified as apes. Other than "Hey, look! Some similarities!"

Humans being apes is your "belief".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yet you just said above that intelligence came about by "simply natural selection and variation".

No, I said that the change from other apes to man involve simply natural selection and variation. Don't quote out of context. And what didn't you understand about that?

You, likewise, can't show any support that humans can be classified as apes. Other than "Hey, look! Some similarities!"

Humans being apes is your "belief".

Sure I can. It is not just similarities, but the pattern of similarities as you have been told.

There are no significant differences between other apes and humans. In fact some of the other apes are closer to us than they are to other apes, specifically bonobos and chimpanzees. The fact that they are close to us than they are to others shows that not only are we apes but that we had a common ancestor.