Why the Childfree Are Hostile

[Audiomechanic]

Very well written article that basically sums it up for me.

Why the Childfree Are Hostile | NATHAN BOUTWELL

 

[peaceandquiet]

Great article, thanks for sharing.

 

[akmom]

I'm confused. I never met anyone like that in my life.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Like the "breeders" or "lifescripters" he describes? I have. On numerous occasions.

 

[PersephonesTear]

I really haven't met anyone like the breeders he describes in the article, either, in regard to how people have treated their children. However, I have run across tons of people who do the "Bingo" thing he mentions. In general, I feel like most people have the ability to be intensely critical of another person's choice if that choice is different from one's own, because they take it as a personal affront to their own way of life.

Interesting enough, I saw a bit of this "Entitlement" drama play out between my mother and my grandmother (father's mother) while I was growing up. My grandmother was not a particularly warm woman, and she absolutely expected that any children who were around her would behave a certain way and that the mother of those children would be 100% responsible for making those children behave that way and taking care of 100% of those childrens' needs. My mother, on the other hand, held the view that kids will be kids - deal with it. Further, she felt that responsibilities of childcare should fall to ALL adult relatives who happened to be present - which meant that if Grandma was the one who smelled the dirty diaper, then Grandma needs to Woman Up and Change That Diaper rather than pulling Mom away from an important conversation with someone.

Both views have merit, and what our family desperately needed between these two women was compromise and understanding.

I might also point out that both my mother and my grandmother were the mothers of four children each. Radically different parenting philosophies.

 

[akmom]

Yeah, I know people who criticize others for not having children (or a degree, or a job, or a certain hobby, etc.) but I think the way people allegedly treat their children might be more an issue of limited perspective on the part of others.

The Starbucks example was just horrifying. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but seriously, that can't be common. I frequent circles with lots of children, and I've just never seen any of that.

 

[snoochface]

Unfortunately, I've seen all of those examples (except the babies in the adult-themed stores). I've seen people change their baby's diapers on tables in McDonald's. I've seen babies in loud, gunfire-laden R-rated movies. I've seen people bring their babies to the local karaoke bar and set their car seat on an empty bar chair surrounded by loud music, drinking, and smoke.

Those are just examples of really bad parenting. I don't think they can be applied to a wide group of people though. My conservative, Catholic, Italian, over-protective mother was a bad parent to me for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with her feeling entitled to take me anywhere and allow me to behave however I wanted. There will be bad parents in any classification or group you can come up with.

The only time I feel hostility is when I feel I am being attacked for a personal choice, either by being told I am sinning against God, or by having my character maligned (being called selfish, immature, ignorant, etc.) I am greatly annoyed by poor parenting, and will complain or rant about it, but I don't feel hostile so much as I do sad for the kids afflicted with those parents.

 

[Audiomechanic]

The only time I feel hostility is when I feel I am being attacked for a personal choice, either by being told I am sinning against God, or by having my character maligned (being called selfish, immature, ignorant, etc.) I am greatly annoyed by poor parenting, and will complain or rant about it, but I don't feel hostile so much as I do sad for the kids afflicted with those parents.

+1.

It is interesting, that, the vast majority of BINGOs I and my wife received are from parents (or future parents) age 20 - 40. Above 40 I typically get answers like:

"good for you"
or
"You know what works best for you"
or
"it's a good thing you've thought this out"
and even
"wish I'd made that decision."

But in that 20 - 40 age range (Gen X and Y typically), I typically get the:

"you'll change your mind"
or
"isn't that selfish?"
or
"how can someone not want kids?!"
or
"but it's different when it's your own"
or
"but the Bible says...."
or even
"that's terrible!"

The 20 - 40 age range is where "helicopter parenting" lives too. I don't know if there is a correlation there. Just an observation.

I believe, by observation, there are 3 main reasons people [who] can not, or will not accept the idea that parenting is optional (not everyone fits into all 3 and some, I'm sure, don't fit into any):

1) It's the social norm. America is baby-crazy. Not future-adult crazy like the author of the article describes. Baby-crazy. "Guess who has a baby bump?!" is on the cover of many magazines. Babies are fashion accessories, not future adults. The past 40 or so years has seen this trend increase dramatically. So when one of these "life-scripters," as the author describes them, comes into contact with me (a free-thinking person who makes my own decisions, even if they are not the norm), there's a short circuit. A disconnect between synapses in their brains. They can't comprehend it. Because in this society, "you grow up, get married and have kids. IT'S JUST WHAT YOU DO! You don't NOT do that!"

2) Religious/familial mis-teachings. This one's obvious.

3) Having kids for a parent is amazing (especially those who really wanted to be parents), and people like to share amazing things in their lives with others and have them experience the same amazing things (join their club). This one is human social behavior and is largely unconscious. It's also selfless to a degree...on the surface. Life-scripters and non-life-scripters (free-thinkers) both do this. The non-life-scripters are much less vehement and adamant about it, though. Life-scripters, in an effort to "show me the err of my ways" and have me experience the awesomeness of the amazing thing in their lives, will start on this point, but then lean back on point one or two above. The conversation will start out with them extolling the wonders of parenthood and how I should also experience the joy of a baby taking a crap on my lap and puking on my shoulder, but then switch to arguments based on point one like, "but who's going to take care of you when you're older?" or point two like, "It's a sin against God..."

My decision to not have kids has literally offended people (life-scripters)! They respond as if I personally insulted them. It's pretty interesting to watch actually.

 

[snoochface]

My decision to not have kids has literally offended people (life-scripters)! They respond as if I personally insulted them. It's pretty interesting to watch actually.

I've experienced this too! I think it's threatening in some way. People like to feel validated for the choices they make. They like to know they've made a good choice because others made that choice too. I think this might manifest as, "You don't want to make the choice I made, ergo you think the choice I made is a bad choice." And then there's a defensiveness or insecurity that comes into play sometimes.

The other part of it is, "You don't like kids, so you don't like my kids" and that feels insulting. Even though it may be completely baseless - so many childfree love kids, they just don't want any of their own. But that's the perception.

 

[Audiomechanic]

I've experienced this too! I think it's threatening in some way. People like to feel validated for the choices they make. They like to know they've made a good choice because others made that choice too. I think this might manifest as, "You don't want to make the choice I made, ergo you think the choice I made is a bad choice." And then there's a defensiveness or insecurity that comes into play sometimes.

The other part of it is, "You don't like kids, so you don't like my kids" and that feels insulting. Even though it may be completely baseless - so many childfree love kids, they just don't want any of their own. But that's the perception.

Good points.

Especially the second one. I'd wager a guess that most of those life-scripters who are insulted by my not liking kids because they think I don't like their kids, are probably right. I DON'T like their kids. LOL

 

[akmom]

I'd wager a guess that most of those life-scripters who are insulted by my not liking kids because they think I don't like their kids, are probably right. I DON'T like their kids. LOL

Don't worry, parents often don't like other people's kids either. We just have to hide it.

 

[PersephonesTear]

Interestingly enough, the idea that some people don't like kids gets to me because I feel like it marginalizes kids into a specific group: This weird species that isn't quite human. But every child is an individual person, just as every adult one meets is an individual person. But it seems like people who universally "don't like kids, period," don't view them that way?

Anyways, people who are single aren't usually (haha, sometimes they are! But not nearly as much...) accused of not liking men or not liking women... so why would people who have no children be accused of not liking children?

 

[snoochface]

It's a generalization - some people don't like dogs, even though the occasional dog pulls at their heart or at least is tolerable to them. I generally don't like kids, but I love my nieces and nephews, and I can't resist my best friend's two year old granddaughter when she runs toward me with her arms in the air and cries, "Up!" when she sees me.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Don't worry, parents often don't like other people's kids either. We just have to hide it.

Good point. Very good point.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Interestingly enough, the idea that some people don't like kids gets to me because I feel like it marginalizes kids into a specific group: This weird species that isn't quite human. But every child is an individual person, just as every adult one meets is an individual person. But it seems like people who universally "don't like kids, period," don't view them that way?

I know that kids are people. There are lots of full grown people I don't like also.

I do not wish harm on any child. That said, I don't worship them either (the opposite extreme, usually displayed by helicopter parents and "mommy moms")...and would rather they stay...over there....with their parents...instead of tugging on my pant leg and asking me questions.

 

[akmom]

and would rather they stay...over there....with their parents...instead of tugging on my pant leg and asking me questions.

Kids totally gravitate to that. I have a brother like that, and he's their favorite.

 

[Audiomechanic]

I KNOW! I don't get it! I'm not a kid person. I don't hate kids, but I don't get them, don't like them (for the most part), and don't relate to them at all. But they gravitate to me like flies to stink! Why is this? Do they want me to like them?

Sometimes when this happens it's kinda cute. Other times, it's "Ok kid...go back over there....please....now."

One parent one time (neighbor of ours) told me that kids like me because they can sense I'm a kind person (which I am), and that I don't treat them like kids. I treat them like everyone else. Meaning, if some small creature runs up to me, I don't place my hands on my knees and bend down and in my best "mommy" or "daddy" coddling voice say something like, "OOOOoooh, what you got there big man? A firetruck? WOW! That's some toy! It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen!" I will instead look down, and in my normal speaking voice say something like, "Pretty cool truck, man." My neighbor said some kids get sick of being treated like kids, so they come to me to be treated like everyone else. I don't know how much truth this holds, but it kinda makes sense.

 

[akmom]

It's true. Kids don't like being treated like kids. They know when someone is being genuine or not. Plus I think they find people interesting when they don't fit the mold, in terms of how they respond to kids.

 

[Audiomechanic]

Makes sense.

 

[Inkachu]

That article doesn't really describe "why child free people are hostile", it just explains why this one, particular guy is hostile towards "breeders" and says nothing of why he doesn't want kids of his own... maybe I'm missing something.