A Pondering of the Peculiar (4)

[biggles53]

Oh? I thought Genez pointed out that the people there do not seem to be standing? Is he wrong? You have some people of Tyre in a city on the same spot now?

Ummmm......so the prophesy is that all the people living in a city will one day be dead...?

That's a prophesy...??

That's what you base your faith upon...??

Well......I'm a prophet.....watch this....."all the people currently alive will one day be dead"...........!

So sayeth the prophet......all hail the Church of Biggles....!

 

[dad]

Ummmm......so the prophesy is that all the people living in a city will one day be dead...?

No. I haven't said what I think it really means yet. However, the point was raised by a poster that the people of Tyre may not be who is living there today. I think it was fair to ask if that is correct.

That's a prophesy...??

What? Chapter and verse to what you are talking about exactly?

Well......I'm a prophet.....watch this....."all the people currently alive will one day be dead"...........!

Millions maybe billions will be raptured perhaps. I will go with Jesus and what He said, thanks.

You offer giggles, biggles.

 

[biggles53]

The prophesy stands. Your understanding of it I'm not too sure of.

No mate....I am really adept in the use of language. Your scriptures clearly state that Tyre will be destroyed and will disappear forever...

It hasn't.....I've been there....it exists quite clearly and plainly...

But don't take the word of an evil atheist....go and look for yourself....

And then try to console yourself over those persistent doubts that are gnawing away at your faith....

Those were not his exact words. Quote his exact words and I will explain that to you.

Ummmm....which of the myriad of copies of his "exact words" would you prefer that I use.......!?

 

[biggles53]

No. I haven't said what I think it really means yet. However, the point was raised by a poster that the people of Tyre may not be who is living there today. I think it was fair to ask if that is correct.

What? Chapter and verse to what you are talking about exactly?


Millions maybe billions will be raptured perhaps. I will go with Jesus and what He said, thanks.

You offer giggles, biggles.

I'll take giggles over childish fantasies any day mate........

 

[Subduction Zone]

Great so now we are supposed to beg to have you be clear. Guess again.

I was clear. You have to beg me to make it simple enough for you to understand.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was questioning one of your claims about some volcano covering a city in the area of Israel. Can we not ask you to support your bizarre claims?

I was responding to a claim of a supposed finding of Sodom.

Please do try to keep up.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ummmm......so the prophesy is that all the people living in a city will one day be dead...?

That's a prophesy...??

That's what you base your faith upon...??

Well......I'm a prophet.....watch this....."all the people currently alive will one day be dead"...........!

So sayeth the prophet......all hail the Church of Biggles....!

Sadly that is what literalists try to do in defending the Tyre prophesy.

They are determined to sink all prophesy by defending this one. Instead of admitting the obvious.

 

[Sayre]

Hey? What are liberals doing with the Tyre prophesy? I simply deny it...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hey? What are liberals doing with the Tyre prophesy? I simply deny it...

And that is reasonable.

Again, against literalists I use the Bible. That does not disprove God, it only disproves that the Bible is a flawless source. You still have to use your brain when you read the Bible. It does have some good to it. Literalists tend to be an all or nothing sort of crowd. Sadly they will drive the Bible down to nothing by defending rather unimportant parts of it. That is why they are so easy to snare.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That was not the truth. People can become very comfortable with a lie. No turmoil. Only smugness.

Actually, I agree, people can become extremely delusional to the extent that as far as they are concerned, the lie is reality. It is a trait if certain disorders, such as narcissistic personality disorder, in which a person literally believes themselves to be the greatest thing in the world. However, there is turmoil when they face information that contradicts the delusion.

 

[GenemZ]

Here we go. Someone did his homework.

There is much more to be found here: Apologetics Press - Tyre in Prophecy

It is at this point in the discussion that certain skeptics view Ezekiel’s prophecy
as a failed prediction. Farrell Till stated: “Nebuchadnezzar did capture the mainland
suburb of Tyre, but he never succeeded in taking the island part, which was the
seat of Tyrian grandeur. That being so, it could hardly be said that Nebuchadnezzar
wreaked the total havoc on Tyre that Ezekiel vituperatively predicted in the passages
cited” (n.d.). Till and others suggest that the prophecies about Tyre’s utter destruction
refer to the work of Nebuchadnezzar.

After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel
began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3).
Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege
mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things
(26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural
“they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones
and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast
significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to
the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the
utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar.

Furthermore, Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to
destroy the city. Sixteen years after his initial prediction, in the 27th year of
Johoiachin’s captivity (circa 570 B.C.), he wrote: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar
king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre; every head
was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army
received wages from Tyre, for the labor which they expended on it” (29:18).
Therefore, in regard to the prophecy of Tyre as it relates to Nebuchadnezzar’s
activity, at least two of the elements were fulfilled (i.e., the siege mound and
the slaying of the inhabitants in the field).




​

ALEXANDER AND TYRE

The historical account of Alexander the Great’s dealings with Tyre adds another important
piece to Ezekiel’s prophecy. By 333 B.C., Ezekiel’s prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed
and its building material cast into the midst of the waters had yet to materialize. But that
situation was soon to be altered. Ancient historian Diodorus Siculus, who lived from
approximately 80-20 B.C., wrote extensively of the young Greek conqueror’s dealing with
Tyre. It is from his original work that much of the following information on Tyre’s destruction
derives (see Siculus, 1963, 17.40-46).
​

In his dealings with Tyre, Alexander asserted that he wished to make a personal sacrifice in
the temple of Heracles on the island city of Tyre. Apparently, because the Tyrians considered
their island refuge virtually impregnable, with war machines covering the walls, and rapidly
moving water acting as an effective barrier from land attack, they refused his request. Upon
receiving their refusal, Alexander immediately set to work on a plan to besiege and conquer
the city. He set upon the task of building a land bridge or cause way (Siculus calls it a “mole&#8221
from the mainland city of Tyre to the island city. Siculus stated: “Immediately he demolished
what was called Old Tyre and set many tens of thousands of men to work carrying stones to
construct a mole” (17.40). Curtius Rufus noted: “Large quantities of rock were available,
furnished by old Tyre” (4.2.18).

This unprecedented action took the Tyrians by complete surprise. Fleming noted:
“In former times the city had shown herself well nigh impregnable. That Alexander’s
method of attack was not anticipated is not strange, for there was no precedent
for it in the annals of warfare” (p. 56). And yet, even though this action was
unprecedented militarily, it was exactly what one might expect from the description
of the destruction of Tyre given by Ezekiel hundreds of years prior to Alexander’s
actions.

The mainland city was demolished and all her stones, timber, and soil
were thrown into the midst of the sea.
​

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Someone didn't do their homework.

The fact is that I already showed you why the prophecy applies only to Nebby. Nebby was the "many nations".

Second, not even Alex fulfilled the prophecy.

The island recovered after Alex. We can still find it on a map.

Now if you ask nicely about your past failures I will be more than happy to go over them.

Until you do I will simply, and quite politely, point out that we already dealt with that claim.

So next time you claim you have done your homework make sure that you have done your homework.

 

[dad]

I'll take giggles over childish fantasies any day mate........

You renounce evolution then?

 

[dad]

I was responding to a claim of a supposed finding of Sodom.

Please do try to keep up.

Sodom was not far from there. This is news? So where is your volcano? Try not to make claims that you refuse to support.

You ain't lookin good in this whole Tyre thing either.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You renounce evolution then?

Nope. But understand that we would, given a better theory.

 

[dad]

Actually, I agree, people can become extremely delusional to the extent that as far as they are concerned, the lie is reality. It is a trait if certain disorders, such as narcissistic personality disorder, in which a person literally believes themselves to be the greatest thing in the world. However, there is turmoil when they face information that contradicts the delusion.

Rather than looking at how people feel, and act, I try to look at what the thing is that we are supposed to accept as truth. Some may get the truth and smile, others may spit it out, and have a conniption.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sodom was not far from there. This is news? So where is your volcano? Try not to make claims that you refuse to support.

You ain't lookin good in this whole Tyre thing either.

And your evidence for this empty claim of yours is .... ?

I was not the one making a claim about Sodom being found.

Again, please do try to keep up.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Rather than looking at how people feel, and act, I try to look at what the thing is that we are supposed to accept as truth. Some may get the truth and smile, others may spit it out, and have a conniption.

What are we "supposed to accept as truth"? What is your evidence that supports that whatever that is IS the truth?

The only "truth" that I can see is that which we can show with objective evidence.

 

[dad]

Someone didn't do their homework.

The fact is that I already showed you why the prophecy applies only to Nebby. Nebby was the "many nations".

A king was many kings? Seems to me that a prophesy can involve more than one year, or king or nation. Those who know prophesy do not get confused like that so easily.

Second, not even Alex fulfilled the prophecy.

Whoopee do. Partial fulfillment are a taste of things to come. They show us that it will all come.

The island recovered after Alex. We can still find it on a map.

I will ask the question...could the ultimate fulfillment here involve more than ancient Tyre? Any good prophesy worth it's salt does end up way in the future.

Now if you ask nicely about your past failures I will be more than happy to go over them.

Gong. Get back on topic. This is not a pretty fail.

 

[dad]

And your evidence for this empty claim of yours is .... ?

I was not the one making a claim about Sodom being found.

Again, please do try to keep up.

You mentioned that what covered some old town someone apparently claimed may have been Sodom, could have been covered by a volcano. So...let's inspect your credos here.