Why I am 7th Day Adventist, and not of any other faith...

[LittleLambofJesus]

I have a question for SDA'S, I have heard they believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel, but they never admit it, especially their leaders. Does anyone have an answer?
I have found this little known fact on the Net.

May God bless, John

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http://www.christianforums.com/t2069878-13/#post18268568
Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

You start with Rev. 12:7 where Michael is mentioned in a very active role. If you take the time to go through that story of the rebellion in heaven you would find that Michael can only be a being who is equal to God. He could not be an ordinary angel. So, even though the passage does not show that Michael is Jesus it does show that Michael is God. That is as far as I am prepared to go, though I do believe that Michael is Jesus in keeping with my belief in the Trinity.

As a researcher I prefer to stick with what I can demonstrate to a reasonable certainty. Nothing can be proven absolutely.

Here are more verses to support that Jesus is also called Michael.

Daniel 12

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

.

 

[BobRyan]

There is only one common theme that runs through every single important SDA doctrine, either overtly or subtly: Denigrating and Degrading the effect of the Resurrection, or denying the Divinity of Christ. .

Making up false accusations in the form of stories is not the same thing as having an actual fact to discuss. For good discussion we need facts, substance. Bring one up - let's talk about it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

keeping commandments is a worthless venture .

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1cor 7:19.

Paul said that the 5th commandment is the FIRST commandment in that unit of TEN with a Promise and is binding on all the saints.

1John 5:1-4 also highly supports "KEEPING the Commandments of God" as does Christ in Mark 7:6-13 while He condemns the religious leaders trying to set aside the Commandments of God.

No wonder even pro-Sunday sources like those listed below get the point that the TEN Commandments are included in the NT moral law of God just as in the OT.

 

[BobRyan]

I have a question for SDA'S, I have heard they believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel, but they never admit it, especially their leaders. Does anyone have an answer? I have found this little known fact on the Net.

May God bless, John

here is a little known "secret" -- We believe that Abraham met God in Genesis 18 just like the Bible says. So even though the text says "3 men" in fact it was infinite God and two angels appearing in the form of men. Shhhhhhhhh tell no one.... it is a big secret among us SDAs.

Genesis 18

1. Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.”

They taught that for many years and some still do quietly. Their false prophet, Ellen White, wrote .

More facts - less fiction please.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

"More facts - less fiction please."

You asked for it, you got it.

The SDA Church has an OVERWHELMING history of denying the Divinity of Christ and belittling the effect of the Resurrection! For the first 100 years of its existence, it taught nothing but the extreme Arian heresy! Do you REALLY want me to post quotes from the founders? It is an extremely solid case. Here is just one:

"It is well known that the early Adventist leaders and founders were Arians, who denied the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. Their article "The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Adventists" by Gerhard Pfandi, of their Biblical Research Institute (referred to as "Trinity" henceforth) tells us on page 1:

"Two of the principal founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Joseph Bates and James White, were originally members of the Christian Connection Church which rejected the doctrine of the Trinity…Other prominent Adventists who spoke out against the Trinity were J.N. Loughborough, R.F. Cottrell, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith…"
These SDA leaders denied Jesus’ deity and the Trinity. Joseph Bates, raised in the Congregational Church, repudiated the Trinity doctrine upon joining the Christian Connection Church. Bates learned the Sabbath doctrine from Rachel Oakes, a Seventh-day Baptist; however, Bates did not accept the Seventh-day Baptist doctrine of the Trinity. So, early Adventists had more in common with the Shakers, who not only kept the Sabbath and had prophets, but also believed in Arianism. Only by the turn of the century did Adventism begin to move out of Arianism to espousing Jesus’ deity, and subsequently, the Trinity. This was hard to do in light of Ellen White’s statements, spanning over 50 years, upholding Arianism."
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Seventh-Day Adventist/ew-deity.htm

At best, the SDA's position on the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity is only slightly different than the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's no wonder that the Millerite debacle spawned all manner of virulent anti-Christian cults! You actually have to give JWs some credit for honesty here: They make no bones about rejecting the Trinity and the Divinity of Christ. SDAs by contrast cover their noxious anti-Christian cult doctrine with a thin veneer of deceptive Christian terminology.

Your scripture sculpting of unrelated texts and partial texts is nothing more than a ruse to get real Christians to doubt their salvation. the SDA cult emphasizes the Sabbath as the central doctrine because they really DO believe that is the source of their Salvation. That has NOTHING to do with Christianity!

It's no war against the real Truth of Christianity. Its an argument against a plainly non-Christian counterfeit. That is why St. Paul argued so vehemently against the SDA Church of his time: The Galatian heresy.

There is NO power over sin in the SDA Church's pathetic emphasis on the Mosaic Law. If there is one common theme in the Epistles of St. Paul, it is that the Real Deal gives people power over sin.

Your repetitive arguments for the Sabbath are just a ruse to get gullible Christians to divert themselves into a miserable cultish system. It's pretty easy to see that you NEVER discuss the Gospel with anywhere NEAR the intensity that you push the Sabbath. It is plain the Sabbath is FAR AND AWAY more important to you than the Resurrection!

 

[pshun2404]

here is a little known "secret" -- We believe that Abraham met God in Genesis 18 just like the Bible says. So even though the text says "3 men" in fact it was infinite God and two angels appearing in the form of men. Shhhhhhhhh tell no one.... it is a big secret among us SDAs.

Genesis 18

1. Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.”






More facts - less fiction please.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob...you are mistaken...the church always believed this...its no secret

Were you being humorously sarcastic?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1cor 7:19.

Paul said that the 5th commandment is the FIRST commandment in that unit of TEN with a Promise and is binding on all the saints.

1John 5:1-4 also highly supports "KEEPING the Commandments of God" as does Christ in Mark 7:6-13 while He condemns the religious leaders trying to set aside the Commandments of God.

No wonder even pro-Sunday sources like those listed below get the point that the TEN Commandments are included in the NT moral law of God just as in the OT.

Paul says if you are in the spirit you aren't under the Law. Read Paul in context for once. Paul never says we have to keep the Sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

Paul says if you are in the spirit you aren't under the Law. Read Paul in context for once. Paul never says we have to keep the Sabbath.

Adventists bet their Salvation on their ability to keep the Sabbath perfectly. Their deceptive and diminished version of Jesus Christ is nowhere NEAR as powerful and conclusive as the orthodox Christian version. Hence, that is precisely why Adventists talk nonstop about the Sabbath, and very little else. Basically, to them the New Testament is only useful to the extent that it offers verses and half verses that, taken wildly out of context, supports their extreme cultish view of Salvation by Works.

All non-Christian cults have a couple of things in common: A Salvation by Works scheme; and a drastic diminishing of the effect of the Cross and the Resurrection. At best, SDA teaches a theory of Partial Atonement and a cultish anti-Christian theory of the Trinity. In cult-thinking, Jesus's cry of "It is finished" does not say what it means, or means what it says. In cult-think, it is only "finished" once they can demonstrate perfect adherence to Sabbath keeping.

The wild overemphasis on the Sabbath is designed specifically to cause Christians to doubt the certainty of their Salvation, and deceive them into a convoluted cult system of works. Christians who know little or nothing about the Bible are easy prey to this deceitful scriptural manipulation.

The Sabbath has NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING!

 

[Sophrosyne]

The Sabbath has NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING!

This pretty much sums it all up here, The Sabbath is being made an Idol unto itself by some and exalted above the cross. It is like there is only 1 commandment to some people and the rest are just a way to tie them into the New Testament and demand compliance of that ONE commandment to Christians.

 

[LarryP2]

I just did a search on this site of BobRyan's posts. I could not find ONE example of him discussing the effect of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ!!! Please correct me if I am wrong, and I will admit it freely.

This is extremely disturbing. He comes on to a Christian website and posts thousands of Sabbath arguments, but not ONCE on the Resurrection!

I can totally understand now the method to the madness. The deceitful scripture-sculpting SDA argument against both Sunday worship and Easter is nothing but a deceitful repudiation of the Resurrection and the drastic effect it obviously had on the Apostles.

To Adventists, the Sabbath is FAR AND RUNNING AWAY more important than the Resurrection.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I just did a search on this site of BobRyan's posts. I could not find ONE example of him discussing the effect of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ!!! Please correct me if I am wrong, and I will admit it freely.

This is extremely disturbing. He comes on to a Christian website and posts thousands of Sabbath arguments, but not ONCE on the Resurrection!

I can totally understand now the method to the madness. The SDA argument against both Sunday worship and Easter is nothing but a repudiation of the Resurrection and the drastic effect it obviously had on the Apostles.

I see almost nothing of the resurrection of Jesus in almost every post by legalists promoting the Law here. They have to diminish the power of the cross to give their group power over people to condemn them using the Law. That is the theme of all Law promoters..... condemnation. There is no condemnation in Christ which would have one conclude that keeping the Law puts you nowhere in Christ at all because nobody but him can truly keep it thus all are condemned who try their hand at lawkeeping.

 

[LarryP2]

Believe me, I grew up in that hellish cult and was imprisoned in it for 22 years before I was able to flee it. The damage that anti-Christian Sabbath garbage does to young people is just SHOCKING and DISTURBING! It takes decades to undo that horrendous cult damage. There is NO power over sin, no gloriously being overcome by the Holy Spirit and having the Commandments of Jesus Christ written on your heart, and the miraculous transformation of a life that is GUARANTEED under true Christianity. REAL Christians don't sit around and carp about the Pagan origins of worshiping on Sunday and celebrating Easter: REAL Christians have NO ability to resist their knees buckling and swooning at the mention of their wonderful Savior's Resurrection! We are talking about the Resurrection here! The Resurrection IS Christianity! How could you possibly RESIST celebrating it?

Sabbath keeping fanatics should be ashamed and embarrassed to come onto a Christian website to troll for gullible Christians to suck into their vile cult.

 

[Stryder06]

Nice to see the prejudice against God's law hasn't changed much

 

[LarryP2]

Nice to see the prejudice against God's law hasn't changed much

And good to see that the prejudice against the Resurrection hasn't changed much either!

Will the obsolescence of the 10 Commandments by the New Covenant result in lawlessness and Anarchy as the Sabbatarians hysterically and dishonestly insinuate, with their absolutely-deceitful slogan "War against the Ten Commandments?"

Hardly.

Rest assured that most (with the exception of the Sabbath) of the Ten Commandments are alive and well, in one form or another in the civil and criminal legal systems throughout the United States. There is NO danger whatsoever that Christianity's embrace of the New Covenant is going to result in the abandonment of the basic principles contained within the Ten commandments. And your legal jeopardy in the modern court system will be assured irregardless of your views on the Ten Commandments if you go ahead and murder, commit false witness, Adultery, theft or any of the rest of the prohibited actions. Virtually every court in the United States enforces the Commandment against murder found in the Decalogue: They are more than happy and willing to enforce one or more of the 80,000 some laws against Homicide contained in Federal, State or local statutes. Should you choose to commit Adultery, there are specific criminal and civil codes that will rush into play, making your day in divorce court extremely expensive and painful. Should you choose to steal, there are about 500,000 various laws throughout the United States that will make you regret your behavior very quickly. Additionally, there are literally millions more laws that prohibit many forms of immoral activity left surprisingly unmentioned by the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments, by omission, ALLOW and PERMIT thousands of types of behavior that are prohibited or discouraged by Christianity.

As a Christian, the fact that the Ten Commandments are no longer binding on you doesn't get you particularly far in the real world: there are plenty of US Laws covering all of the same offenses, and then some. The only REAL issue is whether the Jewish Sabbath still applies, and Christianity has a seamless 2,000 year history of denouncing Sabbath Keeping as an anti-Christian heresy. Sabbatarianism is simply just reinvention of several brands of old heresies all dressed up and modernized with new multi-media presentations.

So for Sabbatarians to issue their general ignorant and deceitful smear about "being at war against the Ten Commandments" is just demagoguery of the lowest and most dishonest kind.

 

[Pyong Ping]

This is why:

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Revelation 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

Revelation 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Revelation 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Revelation 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Cribstyl]

OMB

 

[pshun2404]

The serpent promised that only IF we partook of the additional fruit THEN our eyes are opened. In his case the plain word of God was deceptive unless you accepted this additional fruit as necessary. Eve was persuaded to partake and Adam did so in direct disobedience. In our time this has developed (following the Jewish people being required to read the Torah only as explained by the Talmud) a premise among many groups that states that one cannot truly understand the word of God unless they read (interpret) through the partaken additional fruit they have been persuaded of.

Fruit from God is simply the Holy Scriptures if read prayerfully being led by the Spirit should lead us and guide us.

Additional fruit includes the teaching magisterium, Calvin’s Institutions, the Watchtower Society Publications, the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price, the Writings of Ellen G. White, the writings of David Bernard, and so on.

The story always goes that unless you partake of these additional fruits you cannot truly grasp what God “means” (which often varies from what He plainly “says”). According to each group, only if you see the Scriptures through these additional writings can your eyes truly be opened.

Think about this....

 

[pshun2404]

A problem with Ellen (and I have read most all her works with much enjoyment) is that following no less than two blatantly false failed prophecies, rather than publicly repent (and returning all the money she received), she made up an excuse (the investigative judgment) to explain away her errors (like James White, Judge Rutherford, even Harold Camping who all made up their excuses, did not return the money, and so on), and never recanted of the more obvious falsehoods she had convinced many of (like that the 4th commandment being the greatest commandment, which Jesus so obviously disagreed with) and did not humbly show offense when some called her the spirit of prophecy (which is not a person).

These should have made masses wake up and be freed from persuasion but alas by this time some members of all and any of these groups end up too seriously brainwashed and unable to to be drawn back into the truth of simply and humbly striving to follow the instructions of the covenant agreement they have been called into.

 

[BobRyan]

Why I am 7th Day Adventist, and not of any other faith...

It has to do with this text:

Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God? Psalms 77:13

The Blueprint by Pastor Ivor Myers - YouTube

God Drew The Plans | Bible Universe

Courtyard
Altar of Burnt Offering/Sacrifice - "Daily" dying, & walking with Lamb/Jesus
Laver - Water/Bood/Baptism - "Daily" washing/regeneration

Holy Place
Table of Shewbread -"Daily" Eating/assimilating of the Word of God
7 Branch Candlestick - "Daily" Witnessing, Light of the World
Altar of Incense - "Daily" Prayer/Communion with God

Most Holy Place
Ark Of the Covenant - Law of God [Ten Commandments]/Testimony, Truth/Mercy Seat, Just and Justifier / Love written upon our Hearts to Obey Him always in His Mercy, He hath redeemed us unto Himself, that we might be At-One-Ment with Him.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place of the True Sacrifice, it is a counterfeit.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place of True regeneration and True Baptism by water/fire, it is a counterfeit.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place of The True Word of God/Bible, it is a counterfeit.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place of True Prayer/Communion with God, it is a counterfeit.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place of True Witnessing, of the powerful salvation of Jesus Christ in your own Life, by being the daily example of God's love, it is a counterfeit.

If anything attempts to replace/be in the place the True Law of God, the True Ten Commandments, and/or the True Mercy of God with any other thing, it is a counterfeit.

The 6 degrees of the Separation from God that sin causes.

Every person must accept these into their own lives, and no one else can do it for you. Begin by applying that blood of Jesus to the doorposts of your own heart, and recognize that sin, is causing you to be separated from God, do not let it separate you eternally, for there is a way made, and it is found in the Sanctuary, which is the plan of salvation and redemption in type/picture, that we may understand what Jesus has done for us, and what we are to do in Him. Every single person may come to God through Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit today. There is no other way. Christ Jesus is the Way, Truth and Life, and His Way is in the Sanctuary. Not through any other, or any other way, not a 'priest of earth', not a 'saint', not a man, or woman, nor any angel or other being in all creation, nor any other acts or thoughts.

THE GREAT CONTROVERSY - YouTube

History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church - YouTube

THE FIRST ANGEL'S MESSAGE: THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL - YouTube

THE THIRD ANGEL'S MESSAGE: The Mark of the Beast 666 (HD) - YouTube

Christ Jesus, has a Message for you:

Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Revelation 14:6-12; 18:1-5...

Interesting points - but they should be posted here https://www.christianforums.com/forums/traditional-adventists.541/

The topic area of this board is "Sabbath and the Law" and there are a number of people here in favor of the Bible Sabbath that are not Seventh-day Adventists. So it does no good to argue for the SDA denomination as-if that is the only group affirming the Bible Sabbath here.

 

[BobRyan]

A problem with Ellen (and I have read most all her works with much enjoyment) is that following no less than two blatantly false failed prophecies, rather than publicly repent (and returning all the money she received), she made up an excuse (the investigative judgment) to explain away her errors .

1. She never gave any prophetic prediction of the second coming being in 1844. She never claimed she was even a prophet at that time. Rather she was a teenager. Not at all the leader of anything.

2. Why in the world would I want to argue for Ellen White as a prophet to someone that does not accept certain Bible truths on doctrine that I happen to think are the right doctrine? That seems backwards.