God Made The World In Seven Days

[Subduction Zone]

Although I don't equate atheists with liars, I am much more dubious about their track record when it comes to stating facts than Christians, as there is no moral center to reach for, most have a very existential philosophy of life. Recognizing truth is a spiritual matter, not one of peer review.
Accusing some of lying when you have no absolute proof is nothing more than rabble rousing.

What do you mean that atheists have no moral center? That is extremely insulting. And though it is hard to prove directly there is all sorts of evidence that atheists are more honest than Christians.

And recognizing truth is far from being a spiritual matter. Someone has been feeding you a line of .... well you should know what it is.

Now I can prove that those people were lying. It has been done many many times before in fact people who accept the theory of evolution have this source:

Quote Mine Project: Examining 'Evolution Quotes' of Creationists

It lists many of the quote mines that creationists use along with the complete quote in context.

Please note I did not accuse you of lying. You have been taken in by professional liars.

Would you not agree that if I could show one of those quotes to be taken out of context as badly as my "There is no God" quote from the Bible that that would make those people to be liars? Or is it acceptable for me to say the Bible says that "There is no God"?

 

[stan1953]

That verse was written by a man, offering his point of view....
Anything else is conjecture...

Another opinion, but I wasn't responding to you question was I?

As far as Christians are concerned the Bible IS just what Paul says it is.
As you are not a Christian is doesn't really matter what you believe about the Bible.

 

[biggles53]

Another opinion, but I wasn't responding to you question was I?

As far as Christians are concerned the Bible IS just what Paul says it is.
As you are not a Christian is doesn't really matter what you believe about the Bible.

Oh really...?? And here I was all this time suffering the misunderstanding that the Bible was supposed to written for ALL of mankind....

 

[stan1953]

What do you mean that atheists have no moral center? That is extremely insulting. And though it is hard to prove directly there is all sorts of evidence that atheists are more honest than Christians.
And recognizing truth is far from being a spiritual matter. Someone has been feeding you a line of .... well you should know what it is.
Now I can prove that those people were lying. It has been done many many times before in fact people who accept the theory of evolution have this source:
Quote Mine Project: Examining 'Evolution Quotes' of Creationists
It lists many of the quote mines that creationists use along with the complete quote in context.
Please note I did not accuse you of lying. You have been taken in by professional liars.
Would you not agree that if I could show one of those quotes to be taken out of context as badly as my "There is no God" quote from the Bible that that would make those people to be liars? Or is it acceptable for me to say the Bible says that "There is no God"?

Well as it was not intended as such the insult would be of your own doing.

I get my truth from God and the Bible. It tells me God is the moral center of the universe. Without God's influence mankind would have destroyed itself centuries ago.
Truth is truth and is absolute. It does not depend on who accepts what.
As I said IF you are going to accuse anyone of lying you have to prove they did so by establishing absolutes, which would be kind hard with a theory.
Yes those words are in the Bible, but taken out of context they are nothing more than prevarication, which, it would seem, on your part to be deliberately so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well as it was not intended as such the insult would be of your own doing.

I get my truth from God and the Bible. It tells me God is the moral center of the universe. Without God's influence mankind would have destroyed itself centuries ago.
Truth is truth and is absolute. It does not depend on who accepts what.
As I said IF you are going to accuse anyone of lying you have to prove they did so by establishing absolutes, which would be kind hard with a theory.
Yes those words are in the Bible, but taken out of context they are nothing more than prevarication, which, it would seem, on your part to be deliberately so.

Yet it can be shown that the God of the Bible is far from moral. Especially the O.T version.

And you have a strange idea of what the truth is. I told you how your source lied. Does that not bother you at all that the source you chose could not be honest? I see that you agree with me that taking words out of context out of the Bible would be a lie. So would be taking the words out of context of Darwin or others.

If you do not apply a constant standard you are guilty of the fallacy of "special pleading".

 

[stan1953]

Oh really...?? And here I was all this time suffering the misunderstanding that the Bible was supposed to written for ALL of mankind....

It is, but only if you follow what it advocates. The first thing is to make Jesus your savior. Failing to do that means nothing else matters, as you are condemned by the very thing you fail to do, not accept Jesus.

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[stan1953]

Yet it can be shown that the God of the Bible is far from moral. Especially the O.T version.

And you have a strange idea of what the truth is. I told you how your source lied. Does that not bother you at all that the source you chose could not be honest? I see that you agree with me that taking words out of context out of the Bible would be a lie. So would be taking the words out of context of Darwin or others.

If you do not apply a constant standard you are guilty of the fallacy of "special pleading".

Well coming from someone who doesn't KNOW God, your opining means nothing.

God is truth and if that is strange to you, it isn't to all real Christians.
It would not be the first time than proponents of Darwin would take his words OUT of context, regardless as to whether I recognize it or not.

You'll have to qualify what you mean by "special pleading".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well coming from someone who doesn't KNOW God, your opining means nothing.

God is truth and if that is strange to you, it isn't to all real Christians.
It would not be the first time than proponents of Darwin would take his words OUT of context, regardless as to whether I recognize it or not.

You'll have to qualify what you mean by "special pleading".

How do you know that I don't "know God"? Most atheists know the Bible better than most Christians.

And you are missing my point entirely. I do not take the Bible out of context when I use it. In fact I fight to keep it in context. Creationists take the words of their opponents out of context. That is a form of bearing false witness or lying. You used a lying source. Now you might want to do some work of your own and come to your own conclusions. My point was that the source that you were using was not an honest one.

The same standards apply to both sides. To atheist and Christian. I should not have to be more honest than a Christian, though since I am an atheist I am

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fallacy: Special Pleading

 

[RealityCheck]

:o

Really? Who are the peers of evolution?

What a silly question

Theories and facts do not have peers. Scientists do.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Although I don't equate atheists with liars, I am much more dubious about their track record when it comes to stating facts than Christians, as there is no moral center to reach for, most have a very existential philosophy of life. Recognizing truth is a spiritual matter, not one of peer review.
Accusing some of lying when you have no absolute proof is nothing more than rabble rousing.

Excuse me? No moral center? I have seen plenty of religious people who completely abandon their morals when it suits them, just as I have known plenty of charitable atheists. Morals are not religion bound.

 

[RealityCheck]

Another opinion, but I wasn't responding to you question was I?

As far as Christians are concerned the Bible IS just what Paul says it is.
As you are not a Christian is doesn't really matter what you believe about the Bible.

Oh good. I expect then you are an advocate for not evangelizing or converting non Christians, since what nonbelievers think about the bible is irrelevant.

 

[RealityCheck]

Well as it was not intended as such the insult would be of your own doing.

I get my truth from God and the Bible. It tells me God is the moral center of the universe. Without God's influence mankind would have destroyed itself centuries ago.
Truth is truth and is absolute. It does not depend on who accepts what.
As I said IF you are going to accuse anyone of lying you have to prove they did so by establishing absolutes, which would be kind hard with a theory.
Yes those words are in the Bible, but taken out of context they are nothing more than prevarication, which, it would seem, on your part to be deliberately so.

Why is god the moral center? Is it because he declares himself to be so?

 

[stan1953]

How do you know that I don't "know God"? Most atheists know the Bible better than most Christians.

And you are missing my point entirely. I do not take the Bible out of context when I use it. In fact I fight to keep it in context. Creationists take the words of their opponents out of context. That is a form of bearing false witness or lying. You used a lying source. Now you might want to do some work of your own and come to your own conclusions. My point was that the source that you were using was not an honest one.

The same standards apply to both sides. To atheist and Christian. I should not have to be more honest than a Christian, though since I am an atheist I am.

Trust me, I KNOW. Most atheists know how to equivocate about the same things in the Bible. You get the experience by going online. I don't think you KNOW what you are talking about.

None that I've seen or read, which IS the point. As you, most just opine but never show any actual proof, just a lot on innuendo and theory. You have to prove someone is lying, just just say they are. I think you have been on forums long enough to realize this even if your don't practise it.

You are coming onto a Christian site, so the onus is on YOU to prove your rhetoric, not us. You get a lot more respect on a site like CF that I have received on secular sites like DebatingChristianity.com
On those sites, ridicule is standard fair, so spare me the platitudes.

 

[RealityCheck]

Trust me, I KNOW. Most atheists know how to equivocate about the same things in the Bible. You get the experience by going online. I don't think you KNOW what you are talking about.

None that I've seen or read, which IS the point. As you, most just opine but never show any actual proof, just a lot on innuendo and theory. You have to prove someone is lying, just just say they are. I think you have been on forums long enough to realize this even if your don't practise it.

You are coming onto a Christian site, so the onus is on YOU to prove your rhetoric, not us. You get a lot more respect on a site like CF that I have received on secular sites like DebatingChristianity.com
On those sites, ridicule is standard fair, so spare me the platitudes.

Sorry. The forum doesn't change the burden of proof.

And this is a an open section of the site.... open to everyone, christian or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Trust me, I KNOW. Most atheists know how to equivocate about the same things in the Bible. You get the experience by going online. I don't think you KNOW what you are talking about.

None that I've seen or read, which IS the point. As you, most just opine but never show any actual proof, just a lot on innuendo and theory. You have to prove someone is lying, just just say they are. I think you have been on forums long enough to realize this even if your don't practise it.

You are coming onto a Christian site, so the onus is on YOU to prove your rhetoric, not us. You get a lot more respect on a site like CF that I have received on secular sites like DebatingChristianity.com
On those sites, ridicule is standard fair, so spare me the platitudes.

I have offered to teach you why the flood has been debunked. You did not take me up on my offer.

I pointed out some of the more obvious things wrong that the site that you linked did. You have not even acknowledged that what they did was wrong, yet you would have jumped all over me if I did the same thing with the Bible. I even gave you an example of what I was not going to do that was the same as what the people who wrote your source did.

So I am still willing to help you learn. I will show you what is wrong with specific sites that you link. The Flood was debunked well over 200 years ago.

You might have to learn a little science on the way.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sorry. The forum doesn't change the burden of proof.

And this is a an open section of the site.... open to everyone, christian or not.

To be fair, I would say claiming the existence of gods and claiming that no gods exist are equally extraordinary claims; the burden of proof lies on both sides.

 

[stan1953]

:o

What a silly question

Theories and facts do not have peers. Scientists do.

That's just plain evasiveness

 

[RealityCheck]

To be fair, I would say claiming the existence of gods and claiming that no gods exist are equally extraordinary claims; the burden of proof lies on both sides.

Actually.... that's wrong. Know why? Substitute "invisible pink fart fairies" for "gods" in your statements. See if you still think there's an equal burden of proof.

 

[RealityCheck]

That's just plain evasiveness

No its not. Its a simple statement of reality. Maybe you don't share the same reality the rest of us do?