A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[bhsmte]

Why not? Do you not place value on what another Christian, of his credentials, has to say on scientific matters?

Preach
verb
present participle: preaching
1. deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people

Post # 304. That was preaching, not a conversation.

Declaring that the bible and creation are proven is not conversation.

You are not challenging, you are declaring yourself right. That is not conversation.


Did you not say that your god talks to you? He doesn't talk to me. I was asking who you meant when you used the word "us".

Cynicism. An inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest;

Not childish at all, dismissing the implied insults. I am here discuss, and explore reality, and to support, justify, and provide evidence for my claims where I make them. I do not think you are here for that, judging from the content of your posts.


This was published many years ago.

"In physical cosmology, cosmic inflation, cosmological inflation, or just inflation is the extremely rapid exponential expansion of the early universe by a factor of at least 1078 in volume, driven by a negative-pressure vacuum energy density.[1] The inflationary epoch comprises the first part of the electroweak epoch following the grand unification epoch. It lasted from 10−36 seconds after the Big Bang to sometime between 10−33 and 10−32 seconds. Following the inflationary period, the universe continued to expand, but at a slower rate."

Inflation (cosmology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If you were, it was in an empty rhetoric fashion, unsubstantiated.

Scientific theories can make some people and companies very rich, for sure, but if the underlying science is not robust, they won't. Do you have something against capitalism?

As for money making agenda theories, have you looked at religions take in every year? And no taxes!

"While some people may be bothered by the fact that there are pastors who live in multimillion dollar homes, this is old news to most. But here is what should bother you about these expensive homes: You are helping to pay for them! You pay for them indirectly, the same way local, state, and federal governments in the United States subsidize religion — to the tune of about $71 billion every year."

The Yearly Cost of Religious Tax Exemptions: $71,000,000,000

All that for an industry that has no requirement to produce any evidence that their (contradictory) claims are true. And you are poking your finger at science? Go figure.

No, that is not what I said. Go back, try again.

You preach at your atheist customers, and tell them how your religion is proven?

I did not ask you to retract your statement, but to substantiate it. How is he "evil"? It appears that he is only going after those in violation of federal laws.



Almost forgot: How many times do you think our galaxy has rotated since its formation?

In regards to Francis Collins, I have used his quotes before with some Christians and they either; completely ignore his opinion, or they question his Christianity and claim he has been led astray.

 

[Loudmouth]

Lets start over friend; First of all I am saying science is manipulating and using its power to corrupt the mind of man. That is irrefutable and not my opinion alone. Many highly educated scientist say that. Second, Science is and always has been build on unsubstantiated theories that with testing either get validated or proven wrong.

False accusations and a closed mind are a poor way to go through life.

That is where my question comes in because I have yet to see dispersement value entered in the conclusion of the star light reaching the earth, it is always the other way around. Scientists have always stated the starlight takes millions of years to reach the earth and in fact it is the other way around. The light was already on when it was put in its place no matter what side you believe.

When we see a supernova explode 170,000 light years away, it exploded 170,000 years ago in our frame of reference. It is the events we see in the sky that took place long ago. The photons that reach Earth tonight from a galaxy 3 billion light years away took 3 billion light years to reach us from the time they were emitted by the stars in that galaxy.

As for the monies spent on Evolution compared to all the monies spent on preachers houses. That is really funny, how much did the mars landing cost alone. Not counting all the houses that the evolutionary scientists houses and luxury cars. Then you have the atom blaster, Hubble telescope, deep space satellites, etc.

Oh, my. Those evil scientists doing evil science. RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!

As for blindly accepting man's answers for anything, I am cynical and tread lightly. As we discussed earlier, man is corrupt whether claiming to be Christian or claiming to be a scientist. I am cautious to follow anyone without vetting them as much as possible.

Does that include the Bible, or do you blindly accept the Bible as being true?

 

[Davian]

Lets start over friend; First of all I am saying science is manipulating and using its power to corrupt the mind of man. That is irrefutable and not my opinion alone. Many highly educated scientist say that. Second, Science is and always has been build on unsubstantiated theories that with testing either get validated or proven wrong. That is where my question comes in because I have yet to see dispersement value entered in the conclusion of the star light reaching the earth, it is always the other way around. Scientists have always stated the starlight takes millions of years to reach the earth and in fact it is the other way around. The light was already on when it was put in its place no matter what side you believe.

As for the monies spent on Evolution compared to all the monies spent on preachers houses. That is really funny, how much did the mars landing cost alone. Not counting all the houses that the evolutionary scientists houses and luxury cars. Then you have the atom blaster, Hubble telescope, deep space satellites, etc.

As for me speaking to my Atheist and agnostic customer disrespectfully, I do not. We are grown ups and there is not an internet filter between us and life is good.

I do apologize for lowering myself in the bantering, albeit kinda fun, and not sticking to my point.

As for the type of Christian words I use and being preachy, you chose to put your ideas on a Christian forum. Now you want me to not use my belief structure in my argument against evolution and towards Creation.

As for blindly accepting man's answers for anything, I am cynical and tread lightly. As we discussed earlier, man is corrupt whether claiming to be Christian or claiming to be a scientist. I am cautious to follow anyone without vetting them as much as possible.

You brought cosmology into this exchange. How many times, in your opinion, has this spinning galaxy that we live in rotated during its existence?

 

[HitchSlap]

You brought cosmology into this exchange. How many times, in your opinion, has this spinning galaxy that we live in rotated during its existence?

You know that feeling you get when you just realized you bit off a bit more than you can chew? I think he's there.

 

[Davian]

Yes, but I am sure you will not agree. What about you, were you there when the stars were formed?

How do you measure the distance? Do you allow the mathematical variable of dispersement for said measurement, or is it not necessary to use all the facts to formulate your opinion? Is the lack of complete formula better for your agenda?

Were you there? I love that one!

Right up there with "why are there still monkeys?".

 

[Davian]

There is today a much better and eloquent solution. Very few dentists have been trained for it so far. Its non evasive, and actually was quite easy. Just stings while being administered.

I had two harmful cavitations left behind from extracted root canals. One root canal could have killed me if not extracted. After the extraction the cavitation was making me feel ill. By God's grace I found Ozone therapy. Its injected close to the infected area of the jaw. Kills fungus, bacteria, and viruses.

The FDA has given clearance to certain dentists to use this method and is being evaluated. I had two seriously infected cavitations cleared up, and even one painful cyst on the end of one root (from previous trauma) which dissolved quickly with only a few ozone treatments. This way was much cheaper than the kind of surgery your sister had to go through. The dentist is a dedicated man and charges very reasonably. He looks like he could have retired if he wanted to. He is a kindly dedicated gentleman. A major national organization for biological dentists started close to where I live. They are all very dedicated. The dentist I started with has retired. The one who does the ozone therapy is a close friend.

If interested...

Ozone Therapy Doctors World Wide

Then you would agree, things are getting better.

 

[Davian]

This is not the thread for that, this area is a perpetual warzone. You aren't going to make friends here without making equally nasty enemies.

No need to be so dramatic, Sarah!

It's more like this:

Although there may be some of us that do not realize that there is a pane of glass in the way....

 

[bhsmte]

There is today a much better and eloquent solution. Very few dentists have been trained for it so far. Its non evasive, and actually was quite easy. Just stings while being administered.

I had two harmful cavitations left behind from extracted root canals. One root canal could have killed me if not extracted. After the extraction the cavitation was making me feel ill. By God's grace I found Ozone therapy. Its injected close to the infected area of the jaw. Kills fungus, bacteria, and viruses.

The FDA has given clearance to certain dentists to use this method and is being evaluated. I had two seriously infected cavitations cleared up, and even one painful cyst on the end of one root (from previous trauma) which dissolved quickly with only a few ozone treatments. This way was much cheaper than the kind of surgery your sister had to go through. The dentist is a dedicated man and charges very reasonably. He looks like he could have retired if he wanted to. He is a kindly dedicated gentleman. A major national organization for biological dentists started close to where I live. They are all very dedicated. The dentist I started with has retired. The one who does the ozone therapy is a close friend.

If interested...

Ozone Therapy Doctors World Wide

We also have this thing called; antibiotics.

 

[GenemZ]

None that you might understand, anyway.

Correct.. I will not understand spin that speaks nonsense..

You have no answer.

You have no answer, and can now only weakly bluster in attempt to cover. Probably stalling for time to see if anyone had addressed it before.

I think what I found may be the golden flaw of your theory. I like it. I shall remember it. And, await to see what kind of "spin" some propagandist tries to pull off.

Adios..

 

[HitchSlap]

Correct.. I will not understand spin that speaks nonsense..

You have no answer.

You have no answer, and can now only weakly bluster in attempt to cover. Probably stalling for time to see if anyone had addressed it before.

I think what I found may be the golden flaw of your theory. I like it. I shall remember it. And, await to see what kind of "spin" some propagandist tries to pull off.

Adios..

I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Syonara!

 

[HitchSlap]

Although there may be some of us that do not realize that there is a pane of glass in the way....

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[Davian]

You know that feeling you get when you just realized you bit off a bit more than you can chew? I think he's there.

To be more accurate, I think he is experiencing cognitive dissonance. He wants to discuss cosmology but his worldview is not big enough to accommodate a galaxy. Wait until he hears that there are more than one.

“How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant?” Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.” A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths." -Carl Sagan

 

[bhsmte]

To be more accurate, I think he is experiencing cognitive dissonance. He wants to discuss cosmology but his worldview is not big enough to accommodate a galaxy. Wait until he hears that there are more than one.

“How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant?” Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.” A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths." -Carl Sagan

More than enough cognitive dissonance on this site to go around, no question.

 

[GenemZ]

We also have this thing called; antibiotics.

If you could get the antibiotic to get through the jaw bone you might have something. It can not be done. That is why the oral surgeon had to cut through the jaw bone!

On the other hand, the form of ozone used is able to permeate and penetrate the bone. In contrast, antibiotics can only treat what infection has oozed out from the cavitation, but its not able to get inside to its source. That is why cavitations harm health chronically.

And, cavitations can easily contain more than simply bacteria. They can also fester fungi and virus strains. Very dangerous to ones health! Why do you think his sister had her face pulled back to get to the problem the surgeon needed to get to? These are very harmful to your state of well being. Always feeling sick. And, can cause very serious problems down the road. People have had serious liver and kidney problems clear up after the infection was cleaned out. Its not something to take lightly..

Being perpetually on antibiotics will only serve to eventually destroy your immune system's effectiveness, which depends on your gut flora to be intact and flourishing in a big way.

 

[HitchSlap]

If you could get the antibiotic to get through the jaw bone you might have something. It can not be done. That is why the oral surgeon had to cut through the jaw bone!

On the other hand, the form of ozone used is able to permeate and penetrate the bone. In contrast, antibiotics can only treat what infection has oozed out from the cavitation, but its not able to get inside to its source. That is why cavitations harm health chronically.

And, cavitations can easily contain more than simply bacteria. They can also fester fungi and virus strains. Very dangerous to ones health! Why do you think his sister had her face pulled back to get to the problem the surgeon needed to get to? These are very harmful to your state of well being. Always feeling sick. And, can cause very serious problems down the road. People have had serious liver and kidney problems clear up after the infection was cleaned out. Its not something to take lightly..

Being perpetually on antibiotics will only serve to eventually destroy your immune system's effectiveness, which depends on your gut flora to be intact and flourishing in a big way.

So, to sum up, we are living in a better world than even seventy years ago, now that we have antibiotics and ozone therapy. Would you please tell the other poster things aren't as bad as he'd like to believe.

 

[bhsmte]

If you could get the antibiotic to get through the jaw bone you might have something. It can not be done. That is why the oral surgeon had to cut through the jaw bone!

On the other hand, the form of ozone used is able to permeate and penetrate the bone. In contrast, antibiotics can only treat what infection has oozed out from the cavitation, but its not able to get inside to its source. That is why cavitations harm health chronically.

And, cavitations can easily contain more than simply bacteria. They can also fester fungi and virus strains. Very dangerous to ones health! Why do you think his sister had her face pulled back to get to the problem the surgeon needed to get to? These are very harmful to your state of well being. Always feeling sick. And, can cause very serious problems down the road. People have had serious liver and kidney problems clear up after the infection was cleaned out. Its not something to take lightly..

Being perpetually on antibiotics will only serve to eventually destroy your immune system's effectiveness, which depends on your gut flora to be intact and flourishing in a big way.

Who said anything about being "perpetually" on antibiotics?

Oral antibiotics can take care of the vast majority of infections, especially if caught early enough. There are times, when the infection is advanced, when more invasive treatment is necessary.

I knew someone who had significant dental work done and they were given an antibiotic as prevention against infection, which are common after these types of procedures. The dentist told them to take the entire prescription, regardless of how they felt. The person chose not to, got an infection and a blood clot formed which traveled to their brain and caused a stroke.

 

[BrotherRickG]

False accusations and a closed mind are a poor way to go through life.?

Being a Loudmouth is a poor way to go through life...

My mind is very open otherwise I would not believe in creation, but I question yours.

When we see a supernova explode 170,000 light years away, it exploded 170,000 years ago in our frame of reference. It is the events we see in the sky that took place long ago. The photons that reach Earth tonight from a galaxy 3 billion light years away took 3 billion light years to reach us from the time they were emitted by the stars in that galaxy.

Again, That is my argument. Weren't the stars already on fire instantly after your "Big Bang" and didn't those sparks or "stars" travel out to where the rest today? Isn't it possible they passed by the earth on there way out? Isn't it possible we are seeing the light of those stars, galaxies and super nova's as they were heading away from the earth in real time?

This cannot be that hard of a concept to grasp. I know you were not taught this concept that is why I am purposing it. It answers the question of time to distance theory and allows the universe to be younger.

Oh, my. Those evil scientists doing evil science. RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!

Why do you think scientists are evil? That is a broad statement and is not correct by any measure. You have to agree, unless you are ignorant, that there is an agenda within the evolutionary science crowd. I bet you would say the same for the Creation Science crowd.

Does that include the Bible, or do you blindly accept the Bible as being true?

I accept the Bible for what it is, The word of God. The great thing about the understanding that there is a Creator is that it answers the question that no evolutionary scientist can answer... Why we are here.

There is actually a great verse that explains mine and many others life which goes like this... I was blind and now I can see. This the way it is when we used to believe in myths and aliens which never made any sense and now we get it. Most of you will not get it though because of your close mindedness and the refusal to believe there is anyone smarter than man. That is your downfall.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I recommend Michael Shermer's book "Why People Believe Weird Things." I think you would find it fascinating.

No need to be so dramatic, Sarah!

It's more like this:

Although there may be some of us that do not realize that there is a pane of glass in the way....

yeah, although if you want to see some real nastiness, check out the ethics area or (if you want to be crushed with slander and mudslinging) the politics area.

 

[Loudmouth]

My mind is very open otherwise I would not believe in creation, but I question yours.

What scientific evidence led you to this conclusion?

Again, That is my argument. Weren't the stars already on fire instantly after your "Big Bang"

No. Stars didn't start forming until hundreds of thousands of years after the initial expansion of the universe. Before that, the universe was a hot fog of hydrogen ions. It was even too hot for elemental hydrogen to form.

Our own star is a second generation star. Before our solar system there was a star that went supernova. This is what produced all of the heavy elements in our solar system. The hydrogen left over from that supernova explosion formed our Sun and the various gas giant planets.

and didn't those sparks or "stars" travel out to where the rest today? Isn't it possible they passed by the earth on there way out?

There was no Earth at the beginning of the Universe.

[quoet]Isn't it possible we are seeing the light of those stars, galaxies and super nova's as they were heading away from the earth in real time? [/quote]

All galaxies are moving away from us, but not fast enough to produce the effect you are looking for.

This cannot be that hard of a concept to grasp. I know you were not taught this concept that is why I am purposing it. It answers the question of time to distance theory and allows the universe to be younger.

It doesn't solve any of those problems. No observed redshift is strong enough for the universe to be 6,000 years old. In fact, they got the 13 billion year old age for the Universe from the redshift of the first light to move through the universe, which is now seen as the cosmic microwave background. If the universe is 6,000 years old, then we should not be able to see any stars that are farther away than 6,000 light years, and that includes any stars that are moving at great speed. A 6,000 light year sphere is not even enough to fit a small portion of our own galaxy into, much less the billions of galaxies we can see through telescopes.

Why do you think scientists are evil?

Why do you?

"Lets start over friend; First of all I am saying science is manipulating and using its power to corrupt the mind of man."

You have to agree, unless you are ignorant, that there is an agenda within the evolutionary science crowd.

They have an agenda of producing good science, and a lot of it.

I bet you would say the same for the Creation Science crowd.

Their agenda is to lie about the science that the evolutionary science crowd produces.

I accept the Bible for what it is, The word of God.

It is the writings of men.

The great thing about the understanding that there is a Creator is that it answers the question that no evolutionary scientist can answer... Why we are here.

"God did it" is not an answer to any question. It is what one says when they don't have an answer.

There is actually a great verse that explains mine and many others life which goes like this... I was blind and now I can see. This the way it is when we used to believe in myths and aliens which never made any sense and now we get it. Most of you will not get it though because of your close mindedness and the refusal to believe there is anyone smarter than man. That is your downfall.

And yet you are blind to the lies that creationist organizations are feeding you. What does that say?

 

[Sayre]

You do realize we've figured this out and have solid explanations for this. Right?

You also know they're better explanations and more parsimonious than "god-dun-it." Right?

Or are you just trolling?

Do you really have a more parsimonious solution?

The options for the problem of beginnings are...

1 - infinitism (there was no beginning),
2 - there was a beginning, caused by some kind of nigel no friends neutrino (physical entity)
3 - there was a beginning, caused by some kind of eternal barry no body spirit (non physical entity)

All of them have, apriori, a probability of jack all.