Not under the law?

[Steeno7]

Isaiah 42

The Lord's Chosen Servant

1Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations. 2 He will not cry aloud or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street; 3a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice. 4 He will not grow faint or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law. 5 Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:

6 "I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, 7to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. 8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

9 Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them."

Thanks, but I already have a bible.

 

[from scratch]

You may have qualified your 'no' but it remains just as damning. You too are a foreigner on this earth, (not of this world), and you too have yet to receive your promised reward from heaven. We live in a body that sins, and will die accordingly. We need faith in the Spirit to become clean. We are in this type of relationship continually in this world. Seeing through a mirky glass, not knowing what we will be when he returns but knowing we will be like Messiah. We hold on to faith, hope and love, our reward is with Him. What we have received is a down payment, a promise note. We are being prepared on the way to being rewarded. Our full unity with Messiah is complete in his coming back. Not in his departure. We are left waiting for Messiah to redeem us from this world, of which we are not a part of, but living within. He is in us when we are faithful to him. We are 'being made' into a temple of G-d, we are not perfected yet. Least you call G-d a liar and suffer accordingly.

Does this verse mean anything to you? It does to me. And I tell you I'm redeemed which means I possess salvation.

Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

 

[from scratch]

Forgivness of sins and resurrection from the dead to life eternal. And you?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Pretty much what you said except the above verse allows me to say I possess eternal life currently.

Romans 6 shows that I've already risen from the dead.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

In fact Romans 6 offers more discussion.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

Does this verse mean anything to you? It does to me. And I tell you I'm redeemed which means I possess salvation.

Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

No, you possess a hope of your salvation. You are not sinless or eternal, the One who lives in us is. And it is He who keeps us till the day of our redemption.

But, considering that this verse comes from the psalms of David I'd say it expresses perfectly that 'the people of old' were redeemed in the same way we are today.

Does the fact that this is the completion of the sentence you quoted mean anything to you?

and gathered in from the lands, from the east and from the west, from the north and from the south.

It's speaking of the redemption of Yisrael.

How strange to use a verse that disproves the very topic being put forth, that before the cross people/Yisrael does not possess redemption or salvation. Yet, in the quote you just used David is telling Yisrael to explicitly identify it, back in his day.

How many times does this psalm state this?

Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress.

​

 

[from scratch]

Dude dont get your udies in a wad, your the one questioning me and I gave youa response.

What undies?

You seem to be a big believer of OSAS and that people can live as trhey please after they are saved and suffer no consequences and I am a believer in you must live holy and endure to the end. The second I point out where scriptures say you cannot be saved, yet lived a sinful lifestyle afterwards, you always jump in to question that. What is so bad about reminding people if they are saved, they cant be practicing sexual immorality and stuff like that because they think OSAS. Do many Christians live and do many of the things the bible says not to do? Does the bible not say to help each other? Yet when I say we are to still follow Gods commands, you and many Christians on here are quick to jump in a question that.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Haven't you been reading my posts? Have I said one can practice sin and be a Christian Where? I certainly believe in holiness for the believer as a life style.

Your idea must be that if one doesn't sin they're obedient to (keeping) the law. There's no such thing as obedience by default or incidence.

Why are you and many Christians on here so against the term "FOLLOW GODS COMMANDS". He says from Gen to Revelation to not live a life of sin and to follow his commands, yet people are so against what God himself demands to his followers. And when I say commands , im not referring to the ceremonial commands and the book of Hebrews says are no longer needed.

Why don't you believe the Holy Spirit won't lead you to sin? Do you believe the Holy Spirit leads you to the law you've been set free (delivered) from?

And yes if you actually do an unbiased study of what UNDER THE LAW means, it really does mean being under the curse of the law. It would make no sense that Paul would say Gods law is perfect, holy and just and turn around and say it is a curse. We would consider him bipolar if that is what he really believed.
Love God and Love One Another is a sum what God wants of us and if we teach people other wise, we are teaching false doctrine. And how do we love God and One another? By keeping his commands and teaching others to do so. Telling someone not to worship other Gods, dont lie, dont steal, commit sexual immorality, etc is not putting them back under the law. they put themselves under the curse of the law when they dont keep those commands.

Being under means obligation to. You can't be obligated to opposing forces at the same time. Grace (mercy) and law always oppose each other.
Grace administers mercy. The law doesn't. The law always demands death and is always satisfied.

 

[Steeno7]

No, you possess a hope of your salvation. You are not sinless or eternal, the One who lives in us is. And it is He who keeps us till the day of our redemption.

But, considering that this verse comes from the psalms of David I'd say it expresses perfectly that 'the people of old' were redeemed in the same way we are today.

Does the fact that this is the completion of the sentence you quoted mean anything to you?

It's speaking of the redemption of Yisrael.

How strange to use a verse that disproves the very topic being put forth, that before the cross people/Yisrael does not possess redemption or salvation. Yet, in the quote you just used David is telling Yisrael to explicitly identify it, back in his day.

How many times does this psalm state this?

Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress.

​

You are confusing the redemption of the body with salvation.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Pretty much what you said except the above verse allows me to say I possess eternal life currently.

Not really. We possess a promise. Your hope is in Messiah's future reward. It is promised to you now, but you will receive it when he comes.

Romans 6 shows that I've already risen from the dead.

You are already risen from the dead, never to die again? Really now! I've never met a Christian that says they have 'already' physcially died and have been risen to life eternal. Is that what you're really trying to say? Or are you claiming the promise and maintaining faith in His Word?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

In fact Romans 6 offers more discussion.

Agreed, yes we are dead to ourselves and alive in Him forevermore. HOWEVER, this is only a foreshadow of our new heavenly bodies, like Messiah's. Have you not heard "though we die we will live"?

Are you saying you have been resurrected to eternal life physically? I think not sir. Unless you ARE the Messiah. The resurrection of the dead has NOT occurred yet. Only by faith can we claim the promise that is to come. Claim it, sure, but act as though it has happened? No.

Messiah has not come back yet. His reward is with him, in heaven. We have a comforter in this world of which we are not of. We are not living in the kingdom of God on earth. We do not have an earth as it is in heaven, yet. We have started the process, but the LORD has yet to be revealed to ALL the world in power and glory.

And when he does come it will be through Yisrael, as it was the last time. So by eradicating the existence of Yisrael one completely negates the plan Messiah has for the redemption of the world.

 

[from scratch]

Not really. We possess a promise. Your hope is in Messiah's future reward. It is promised to you now, but you will receive it when he comes.

You are already risen from the dead, never to die again? Really now! I've never met a Christian that says they have 'already' physcially died and have been risen to life eternal. Is that what you're really trying to say? Or are you claiming the promise and maintaining faith in His Word?

Agreed, yes we are dead to ourselves and alive in Him forevermore. HOWEVER, this is only a foreshadow of our new heavenly bodies, like Messiah's. Have you not heard "though we die we will live"?

Are you saying you have been resurrected to eternal life physically? I think not sir. Unless you ARE the Messiah. The resurrection of the dead has NOT occurred yet. Only by faith can we claim the promise that is to come. Claim it, sure, but act as though it has happened? No.

Messiah has not come back yet. His reward is with him, in heaven. We have a comforter in this world of which we are not of. We are not living in the kingdom of God on earth. We do not have an earth as it is in heaven, yet. We have started the process, but the LORD has yet to be revealed to ALL the world in power and glory.

And when he does come it will be through Yisrael, as it was the last time. So by eradicating the existence of Yisrael one completely negates the plan Messiah has for the redemption of the world.

I think steeno7 hit the nail on the head.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

I think steno7 hit the nail on the head.

Your seperating redemption and salvation?

I'd like to ask you a question, to further understand the position your taking. Do you hold a once saved always saved understanding?

edit: did not notice SAAN's reference to OSAS before I asked this.

Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I will be parting for the day. Shalom

 

[Steeno7]

Your seperating redemption and salvation?

I'd like to ask you a question, to further understand the position your taking. Do you hold a once saved always saved understanding?

edit: did not notice SAAN's reference to OSAS before I asked this.

Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I will be parting for the day. Shalom

Unfortunately, you are thinking only in terms of physicality.

 

[noroses4u2c]

We are delivered from the curse of the law. Now when we sin we have grace to repent. If we dont repent we are still under the curse of the law.

The bible says no murder will inherit the kingdom of heaven, but that is assuming you murdered someone and never repent. But the bible also say not to abuse grace either, ie commit the same sin over and over again.

How do you repent of murder?

 

[from scratch]

No, you possess a hope of your salvation. You are not sinless or eternal, the One who lives in us is. And it is He who keeps us till the day of our redemption.

But, considering that this verse comes from the psalms of David I'd say it expresses perfectly that 'the people of old' were redeemed in the same way we are today.

Does the fact that this is the completion of the sentence you quoted mean anything to you?

It's speaking of the redemption of Yisrael.

How strange to use a verse that disproves the very topic being put forth, that before the cross people/Yisrael does not possess redemption or salvation. Yet, in the quote you just used David is telling Yisrael to explicitly identify it, back in his day.

How many times does this psalm state this?

Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress.

​

How then am I not righteous? My righteousness doesn't come from nor is supported by the law.

Please explain -

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[from scratch]

Your seperating redemption and salvation?

I'd like to ask you a question, to further understand the position your taking. Do you hold a once saved always saved understanding?

edit: did not notice SAAN's reference to OSAS before I asked this.

Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I will be parting for the day. Shalom

Please explain the difference.

No. I don't see how that could possibly enter the picture, since you say no one possesses salvation.

 

[Setyoufree]

Not Under The Law? - YouTube

Here is a 6 minute video I saw that explains the whole 'being under law" term.

What are your thoughts on this video?

The video presents circular thinking, that is, I am not under the law as long as I am keeping the law.

Well, I've got bad news. No one is keeping the highest & broadest demands of the law, especially the spirituality of the law. No one. Would someone like to challenge me on this one? If so, step up because I would love to test you.....

 

[SAAN]

The video presents circular thinking, that is, I am not under the law as long as I am keeping the law.

Well, I've got bad news. No one is keeping the highest & broadest demands of the law, especially the spirituality of the law. No one. Would someone like to challenge me on this one? If so, step up because I would love to test you.....

I agree, while nobody can keep the law perfectly, it doesn't mean we shouldnt at least try to obey God's commands. Speaking outside of the ceremonial an sacrifical commands that ended at the cross.

 

[Steeno7]

I agree, while nobody can keep the law perfectly, it doesn't mean we shouldnt at least try to obey God's commands. Speaking outside of the ceremonial an sacrifical commands that ended at the cross.

"Trying" simply won't cut it. You must keep it all, and you must keep it all perfectly, at all times. The standard is perfection, not just your best effort.

 

[from scratch]

I agree, while nobody can keep the law perfectly, it doesn't mean we shouldnt at least try to obey God's commands. Speaking outside of the ceremonial an sacrifical commands that ended at the cross.

If one is righteous, why try to be? If one follows the leading of the Holy Spirit, how do the practice sin?

 

[from scratch]

"Trying" simply won't cut it. You must keep it all, and you must keep it all perfectly, at all times. The standard is perfection, not just your best effort.

Main reason I love the New Covenant of grace based on God's promises.

 

[from scratch]

Not really. We possess a promise. Your hope is in Messiah's future reward. It is promised to you now, but you will receive it when he comes.

You are already risen from the dead, never to die again? Really now! I've never met a Christian that says they have 'already' physcially died and have been risen to life eternal. Is that what you're really trying to say? Or are you claiming the promise and maintaining faith in His Word?

Agreed, yes we are dead to ourselves and alive in Him forevermore. HOWEVER, this is only a foreshadow of our new heavenly bodies, like Messiah's. Have you not heard "though we die we will live"?

Are you saying you have been resurrected to eternal life physically? I think not sir. Unless you ARE the Messiah. The resurrection of the dead has NOT occurred yet. Only by faith can we claim the promise that is to come. Claim it, sure, but act as though it has happened? No.

Messiah has not come back yet. His reward is with him, in heaven. We have a comforter in this world of which we are not of. We are not living in the kingdom of God on earth. We do not have an earth as it is in heaven, yet. We have started the process, but the LORD has yet to be revealed to ALL the world in power and glory.

And when he does come it will be through Yisrael, as it was the last time. So by eradicating the existence of Yisrael one completely negates the plan Messiah has for the redemption of the world.

I guess if you really want to get technical we don't even possess a promise because it isn't tangible.
After all that's what you're saying about salvation.

 

[from scratch]

Your seperating redemption and salvation?

I'd like to ask you a question, to further understand the position your taking. Do you hold a once saved always saved understanding?

edit: did not notice SAAN's reference to OSAS before I asked this.

Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I will be parting for the day. Shalom

No sir, redemption is salvation.