The Sabbath and the Covenants

[from scratch]

The good news is that there are a number of Sunday Sources that cover the issue of the New Covenant and the Moral Law of God including the Ten Commandments - available online as well.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson

-- See section 19 in either of the "Confessions of Faith" sources listed above.



The bad news for you is that this list of what I call "Sunday Sources" - choose Sunday and yet STILL admit that all TEN Commandments are applicable to the saints today - and that the seventh day Sabbath was kept by mankind in Eden -

You keep repeating the same point I am making in that quote - as "if" it is helping your down-sized-to-NINE or "Abolished" view of the Ten Commandments which they flatly reject.





And now you provide even "less detail" with your accusation?

How is that supposed to work?


yes these "Sunday sources" all worship on Sunday - they then more like "your sources" not mine yet even they get blatantly obvious points that you appear to struggle with.

For example - these Sunday Sources - make statements like this.


Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

That makes it "worse" for the argument you are making - not "better".

in Christ,

Bob

I see no sense in reposting items you wish to discard time after time.

Look the truth doesn't need to hound and beat others. It is confident. I'm carrying out my assignment and for those who wish to know more they can ask me. You've been informed and reject such. I'm OK with that. I may see a need in the future to do as you request. For now I don't.

 

[BobRyan]

My point is that even your own Sunday Sources refute your arguments and find them to oppose the teaching of the Bible. They are not SDA they are not keeping the Seventh-day, yet they see the flaw in your speculations. How much more so would one such as me who does not hold to your man-made traditions?

I think that point is obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

My point is that even your own Sunday Sources refute your arguments and find them to oppose the teaching of the Bible. They are not SDA they are not keeping the Seventh-day, yet they see the flaw in your speculations. How much more so would one such as me who does not hold to your man-made traditions?

I think that point is obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

They're not my sources, dude. I didn't bring them up to make my point. Bugkiller quoted them to show their inconsistency with your claim making them invalid witnesses supporting your claim.

 

[BobRyan]

I have pointed out repeatedly that they are sunday keeping sources - as have you.

Between the two of us - "Sunday keeping" is a bit more on your side of the fence than mine - as I am sure you will agree.

You keep supposing some fictional scenario where Bugkiller dealt with this list - he did not, much less did he refute them. And so far in all your many posts of it - you have not found one quote from him doing so. Why keep claiming something for which you have no support? If he dealt with one of them he was lucky but I don't recall his ever dealing with either the Westminster Confession of Faith or the Baptist Confession of Faith - nor did he ever state that Moody retracted his own affirmation of the TEN Commandments.

You simply have nothing to go on for that accusation - so you repeat it with no data at all to back it up.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[from scratch]

I have pointed out repeatedly that they are sunday keeping sources - as have you.

Between the two of us - "Sunday keeping" is a bit more on your side of the fence than mine - as I am sure you will agree.

You keep supposing some fictional scenario where Bugkiller dealt with this list - he did not, much less did he refute them. And so far in all your many posts of it - you have not found one quote from him doing so. Why keep claiming something for which you have no support? If he dealt with one of them he was lucky but I don't recall his ever dealing with either the Westminster Confession of Faith or the Baptist Confession of Faith - nor did he ever state that Moody retracted his own affirmation of the TEN Commandments.

You simply have nothing to go on for that accusation - so you repeat it with no data at all to back it up.

in Christ,

Bob

As such your claims aren't valid.

You really can't be saying Bugkiller's quotes of the same sources are fictional, can you. This is saying his quotes don't or didn't exist then or now. You didn't challenge them then so your challenge now is absurd. After the formal debate you had and still have that opportunity with the peanut gallery thread.

I simply can't see how you can say Bugkiller was lying. I've reposted his quotes recently with a short cut link to them. I think anyone can still click on the links provided by Bugkiller and read for themselves what he posted is true.

To say Bugkiller's post are fictional is attacking him (ad hominem) and not a refutation. This is forbidden in both forums.

 

[cyberlizard]

the video is really good but also really weak as I discuss the very same passages in my book on the biblical festival days and come to different conclusions yet without breaking the meaning of the texts.


Steve

 

[from scratch]

the video is really good but also really weak as I discuss the very same passages in my book on the biblical festival days and come to different conclusions yet without breaking the meaning of the texts.


Steve

Not going to read your book.

 

[cyberlizard]

Not going to read your book.

that's okay, I never asked you too.


Steve

 

[Cribstyl]

the video is really good but also really weak as I discuss the very same passages in my book on the biblical festival days and come to different conclusions yet without breaking the meaning of the texts.


Steve

Can you give a specific issue of contention?

 

[Cribstyl]

My point is that even your own Sunday Sources refute your arguments and find them to oppose the teaching of the Bible. They are not SDA they are not keeping the Seventh-day, yet they see the flaw in your speculations. How much more so would one such as me who does not hold to your man-made traditions?

I think that point is obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

xxxxx

 

[BobRyan]

As such your claims aren't valid.

You really can't be saying Bugkiller's quotes of the same sources are fictional, can you. .

You keep going on about Bugkiller "as if" you had posted something from him speaking about the Baptist Confession of Faith, or Westminster Confession of Faith.

Why keep doing that - appealing to thin air? If you believe he made a point from one of those sources - by means show us... So far I have not seen you do it.

And so... the point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

For example - these Sunday Sources - make statements like this found in the Baptist Confession of Faith - contrasting the Moral Law of God (which the document calls the TEN Commandments) with the ceremonial laws.


Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

That makes it "worse" for the argument you are making - not "better".

 

[VictorC]

<off-topic snipped>

You didn't respond to the OP and didn't watch the video.

 

[maco]

You didn't respond to the OP and didn't watch the video.

You didn't watch my video either.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7804507/#post65017368

 

[VictorC]

You didn't watch my video either.

Off topic. You didn't have a video in the OP, and there is no "either" involved.

 

[BobRyan]

Guys, once you get a taste of these provable truths you won't walk away.


This is full gospel truth.

Jer 31:31-33 states the NEW Covenant.

Gal 1:6-11 tells us there is only ONE Gospel and that "Gospel was preached to ABRAHAM" Gal 3:7 such that "The Gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM ALSO" Heb 4:1-2.

Under that NEW Covenat of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "The Law is written on the heart and mind" instead of "abolished".

No wonder Paul can say "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when contrasting the ceremonial law about circumcision against the moral law of God that includes the TEN COMMANDMENTs.

No wonder even our well-known list of sunday-sources get this point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And so just what DO those sunday sources say about the Law of God - and the Covenants?? Do they agree with Paul as stated above?

Indeed they do!



God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson

For those whose only concern is trying to find the best way to downsize the TEN Commandments of God "to nine" - please notice that the list of sources above are all Sunday-keeping sources.


Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.

================================

Originally Posted by BobRyan

Since the question is also asked about the "Baptist Confession of Faith" affirmation of the TEN commandments as binding on all saints from Eden to this very day...

==========================================

[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
&#8220;The Perpetuity of the Law of God&#8221;
[/FONT]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

• The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

• Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

• The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

 

[VictorC]

And so just what DO those sunday sources

Off topic. There are no "Sunday sources" mentioned anywhere in the entire video. The entire presentation is filled with Scripture, and little else.

 

[from scratch]

Jer 31:31-33 states the NEW Covenant.

Gal 1:6-11 tells us there is only ONE Gospel and that "Gospel was preached to ABRAHAM" Gal 3:7 such that "The Gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM ALSO" Heb 4:1-2.

Under that NEW Covenat of Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 "The Law is written on the heart and mind" instead of "abolished".

No wonder Paul can say "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when contrasting the ceremonial law about circumcision against the moral law of God that includes the TEN COMMANDMENTs.

No wonder even our well-known list of sunday-sources get this point.

in Christ,

Bob

Seeing they all worship on Sunday, they must not get it very well. None of them keep Saturday as a day of worship.

Lunch was over an hour ago. Later.

 

[Cribstyl]

Off topic. There are no "Sunday sources" mentioned anywhere in the entire video. The entire presentation is filled with Scripture, and little else.

Great observation. Truth should be based solely on the word of God.
D.L Moody or the others never claimed to be prophets.