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Which New Testament Text has been kept pure?

nccountryboy

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I am new here and have been waiting to post all day. I indeed believe God's written Word is true and is 100% accurate in the KJV. I hold all other translations to the test of the KJV and where they omit things it saddens my heart. I never could understand why most modern translations omit only begotten son from John 3:16 and change it to Gods only son or one and only son. Removing begotten takes away from the text.

The discussion here has been lively and I much appreciate it.
 
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New Legacy

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I am new here and have been waiting to post all day. I indeed believe God's written Word is true and is 100% accurate in the KJV. I hold all other translations to the test of the KJV and where they omit things it saddens my heart. I never could understand why most modern translations omit only begotten son from John 3:16 and change it to Gods only son or one and only son. Removing begotten takes away from the text.

The discussion here has been lively and I much appreciate it.

Why do you begin with the premise that the KJV is right and should be used to judge other translations?

Which of the four versions of the KJV do you consider correct? Why do you not assume that the KJV is made of manuscripts that had things added? After all, the newer translations rely on older manuscripts.
 
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nccountryboy

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I will note that I think its ok to read others like the ESV but I keep in mind that the good old KJV can't be beat. I think that Jack has shown time and time again why the KJV is the most loved and cherished bible because it is accurate and he has already proved why in his many posts already so I will leave it at that. Just a side note, my sweet grandma was the Godliest woman I ever knew, God rest her soul, and back in the 1980's someone gave her a NKJV and she read it some and she later told me she didn't like the way the words were changed and etc and that she was sticking with her KJV. This is silly to say I guess but if the KJV was good enough for her than its good enough for me. :)
 
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Jack Koons

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I am new here and have been waiting to post all day. I indeed believe God's written Word is true and is 100% accurate in the KJV. I hold all other translations to the test of the KJV and where they omit things it saddens my heart. I never could understand why most modern translations omit only begotten son from John 3:16 and change it to Gods only son or one and only son. Removing begotten takes away from the text.

The discussion here has been lively and I much appreciate it.


nccountryboy,

Thank you for the kind words. The following addresses John 3:16.

"only begotten" vs. "one and only".

Each and every time I address this verse, I always get the same response ... It is a legitimate translation, the Greek

Is there a difference.

W/H Greek Text
John 3: 16 ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον

Byz Greek Text
John 3: 16 Οὕτω γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ’ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

Do you see the difference?

The difference is the word "αὐτοῦ", translated "his" in every English translation. The problem of course here, is that the the Greek "αὐτοῦ" does not appear in the W/H Greek text.

The difference in the English translation of the words "one and only" vs. "only begotten" is due to dynamic equivalence vs. verbal and formal equivalence respectively.

This different translation however, causes an unnecessary doctrinal contradiction that is not present in the proper translation of the KJV.

Please consider the following:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Now then, if Jesus is the "one and only" Son, this leaves no place for adopted sons; however, since Jesus is the "only begotten" Son, this leaves place for the adopted sons, to be named as joint-heirs of the Father.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Jack
 
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nccountryboy

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Jack,

"Now then, if Jesus is the "one and only" Son, this leaves no place for adopted sons; however, since Jesus is the "only begotten" Son, this leaves place for the adopted sons, to be named as joint-heirs of the Father."

This is so true and I have not ever thought about it from that angle but it makes perfect sense. Awesome! I can tell you have studied the Word and are a preacher/pastor. I am encouraged by reading your posts.

This is just me think and perhaps I have no ground to stand on but what if the so called older manuscripts were not as diligent to the copying of texts and etc? I do know that there were illegitimate manuscripts from different sects in the early days of christianity and these were obvious to the early church so they never made it into cannon. So what if these older texts that W&H are based off of were somewhat vague from the beginning? I don't know or even pretend to know but its something to ponder.
 
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New Legacy

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That is what this thread is about. The modern scholars would have us believe that so-called 'original' words are lost with the parchments they were written upon. Yet, at the same time proclaim that they, within about a hundred words, have determined the original words of God!

Where do they claim that have the 'originals'?

Scholars also do not believe the bible is the 'words of God' as if God dictated every word (as it never says it is the words of God). Rather it is inspired by God.
 
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New Legacy

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It is interesting that what while 'modern scholarship' acknowledges that there are thousands of Manuscripts which are in agreement, (known as the Majority Text) these Manuscripts are laid aside in spite of the fact that their own 'illustrations' say otherwise.

Where do modern scholars claim this?
You do know the majority text are many different manuscripts which are not in full agreement with each other?

The Textus Receptus was formed by picking what version of a word/phrase appeared the most among the manuscripts.
 
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Jack Koons

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Why do you begin with the premise that the KJV is right and should be used to judge other translations?

Which of the four versions of the KJV do you consider correct? Why do you not assume that the KJV is made of manuscripts that had things added? After all, the newer translations rely on older manuscripts.








There were six editions of the KJV ... (Not four). The 1611, 1629, 1638, 1762, 1769, and the 1873, (the last one being by Dr. F. H. A. Scrivener). The one that is used as the standard today is the 1769.

So why exactly were there several editions of the King James? The answer is quite simple, the printing presses of those days were not as we know of today. In those days, each letter was individually set ins place. To add to that difficultly, the letters were backwards, so that when pressed against the paper would leave a normal (forward) letter.

To give some interesting information about the King James, I will now give an excerpt from the following site:

Weren't there several revisions of the KJV Bible since 1611?


"Much of the information in this section is taken from a book by F.H.A. Scrivener called The Authorized Edition of the English Bible (1611), Its Subsequent Reprints and Modern Representatives. The book is as pedantic as its title indicates. The interesting point is that Scrivener, who published this book in 1884, was a member of the Revision Committee of 1881. He was not a King James Bible believer, and therefore his material is not biased toward the Authorized Version.
In the section of Scrivener's book dealing with the KJV "revisions," one initial detail is striking. The first two so-called major revisions of the King James Bible occurred within 27 years of the original printing. (The language must have been changing very rapidly in those days.) The 1629 edition of the Bible printed in Cambridge is said to have been the first revision. A revision it was not, but simply a careful correction of earlier printing errors. Not only was this edition completed just eighteen years after the translation, but two of the men who participated in this printing, Dr. Samuel Ward and John Bois, had worked on the original translation of the King James Version. Who better to correct early errors than two who had worked on the original translation! Only nine years later and in Cambridge again, another edition came out which is supposed to have been the second major revision. Both Ward and Bois were still alive, but it is not known if they participated at this time. But even Scrivener, who as you remember worked on the English Revised Version of 1881, admitted that the Cambridge printers had simply reinstated words and clauses overlooked by the 1611 printers and amended manifest errors. According to a study which will be detailed later, 72% of the approximately 400 textual corrections in the KJV were completed by the time of the 1638 Cambridge edition, only 27 years after the original printing!"
By the way, it wouldn't be a bad idea to read the entire article.

So much for the "multiple revisions" of the King James Bible Theory.

Jack
 
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Jack Koons

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Where do they claim that have the 'originals'?

Scholars also do not believe the bible is the 'words of God' as if God dictated every word (as it never says it is the words of God). Rather it is inspired by God.




New Legacy,

You stated, "Where do they claim that have the 'originals'?"

Actually, I never said they 'have' the originals, I said they "have determined the original words of God!"

https://bible.org/article/how-accurate-bible


"While the quality of the Old Testament manuscripts is excellent, that of the New Testament is very good--considerably better than the manuscript quality of other ancient documents. Because of the thousands of New Testament manuscripts, there are many variant readings, but these variants are actually used by scholars to reconstruct the original readings by determining which variant best explains the others in any given passage. Some of these variant readings crept into the manuscripts because of visual errors in copying or because of auditory errors when a group of scribes copied manuscripts that were read aloud. Other errors resulted from faulty writing, memory, and judgment, and still others from well-meaning scribes who thought they were correcting the text. Nevertheless, only a small number of these differences affect the sense of the passages, and only a fraction of these have any real consequences. Furthermore, no variant readings are significant enough to call into question any of the doctrines of the New Testament. The New Testament can be regarded as 99.5 percent pure, and the correct readings for the remaining 0.5 percent can often be ascertained with a fair degree of probability by the practice of textual criticism."


Please notice the words, "... these variants are actually used by scholars to reconstruct the original readings..." Then notice, "The New Testament can be regarded as 99.5 percent pure ..."

This means that the scholars believe they can, through textual criticism reconstruct the original readings to a point of 99.5% accuracy.


Furthermore you stated, "Scholars also do not believe the bible is the 'words of God' as if God dictated every word (as it never says it is the words of God). Rather it is inspired by God."

If you follow the following links, the first takes you to a table of contents for THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH. The second link takes you to the section regarding the scriptures.


The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

"THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH
With Scripture Proofs
Adopted by the Ministers and Messengers of the general assembly which met in London in 1689"

1689 LBC: Chapter 1 "Of the Holy Scriptures"



"2._____Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:
OF THE OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Solomen, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations,Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
OF THE NEW TESTAMENT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistle to the Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation
All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life. 
( 2 Timothy 3:16)"

The following excerpt comes from the 1828 Noah Webster Dictionary

"INSPIRA'TION, n. [L. inspiro.]



1. The act of drawing air into the lungs; the inhaling of air; a branch of respiration, and opposed to expiration.



2. The act of breathing into any thing.



3. The infusion of ideas into the mind by the Holy Spirit; the conveying into the minds of men, ideas, notices or monitions by extraordinary or supernatural influence; or the communication of the divine will to the understanding by suggestions or impressions on the mind, which leave no room to doubt the reality of their supernatural origin.



All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. 2 Tim 3.



4. The infusion of ideas or directions by the supposed deities of pagans.



5. The infusion or communication of ideas or poetic spirit, by a superior being or supposed presiding power; as the inspiration of Homer or other poet."



Getting a better dictionary helps us understand words better.


Jack
 
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New Legacy

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There were six editions of the KJV ... (Not four). The 1611, 1629, 1638, 1762, 1769, and the 1873, (the last one being by Dr. F. H. A. Scrivener). The one that is used as the standard today is the 1769.

So why exactly were there several editions of the King James? The answer is quite simple, the printing presses of those days were not as we know of today. In those days, each letter was individually set ins place. To add to that difficultly, the letters were backwards, so that when pressed against the paper would leave a normal (forward) letter.

So which of the four versions is correct? What one the right wording?

Not sure how 'the letters were backwards' has anything to do with the new versions. The KJV changed the wording of the text over the years. In terms of printing, the KJV had terrible issues in the early days of errors when printed.
 
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New Legacy

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New Legacy,

You stated, "Where do they claim that have the 'originals'?"

Actually, I never said they 'have' the originals, I said they "have determined the original words of God!"

https://bible.org/article/how-accurate-bible

Where do scholars say this? No scholar would use the phrase 'words of God'.

"While the quality of the Old Testament manuscripts is excellent, that of the New Testament is very good--considerably better than the manuscript quality of other ancient documents. Because of the thousands of New Testament manuscripts, there are many variant readings, but these variants are actually used by scholars to reconstruct the original readings by determining which variant best explains the others in any given passage. Some of these variant readings crept into the manuscripts because of visual errors in copying or because of auditory errors when a group of scribes copied manuscripts that were read aloud. Other errors resulted from faulty writing, memory, and judgment, and still others from well-meaning scribes who thought they were correcting the text. Nevertheless, only a small number of these differences affect the sense of the passages, and only a fraction of these have any real consequences. Furthermore, no variant readings are significant enough to call into question any of the doctrines of the New Testament. The New Testament can be regarded as 99.5 percent pure, and the correct readings for the remaining 0.5 percent can often be ascertained with a fair degree of probability by the practice of textual criticism."

This is from a website, not a scholar and it certainly isn't the claim of most scholars. Most scholars believe there was never an 'original' version of a book, there were always different versions. Secondly, they only claim it is more authentic to the earliest text because they are not influenced by the all Byzantine editing and changes.


Furthermore you stated, "Scholars also do not believe the bible is the 'words of God' as if God dictated every word (as it never says it is the words of God). Rather it is inspired by God."

If you follow the following links, the first takes you to a table of contents for THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH. The second link takes you to the section regarding the scriptures.


The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

"THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH
With Scripture Proofs
Adopted by the Ministers and Messengers of the general assembly which met in London in 1689"

1689 LBC: Chapter 1 "Of the Holy Scriptures"



"2._____Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:
OF THE OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Solomen, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations,Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
OF THE NEW TESTAMENT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistle to the Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation
All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life. 
( 2 Timothy 3:16)"

The following excerpt comes from the 1828 Noah Webster Dictionary

"INSPIRA'TION, n. [L. inspiro.]



1. The act of drawing air into the lungs; the inhaling of air; a branch of respiration, and opposed to expiration.



2. The act of breathing into any thing.



3. The infusion of ideas into the mind by the Holy Spirit; the conveying into the minds of men, ideas, notices or monitions by extraordinary or supernatural influence; or the communication of the divine will to the understanding by suggestions or impressions on the mind, which leave no room to doubt the reality of their supernatural origin.



All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. 2 Tim 3.



4. The infusion of ideas or directions by the supposed deities of pagans.



5. The infusion or communication of ideas or poetic spirit, by a superior being or supposed presiding power; as the inspiration of Homer or other poet."



Getting a better dictionary helps us understand words better.


Jack

Inspiration, not dictation. Check your dictionary for their meaning. None of what you quoted disagrees with the scholars. For most people the word of God means the message of God, not the literal words. God gives them the idea, they express is through their own words. Hence, why there is a personality to each book. Furthermore, I was asking where do scholars say this?
 
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Jack Koons

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Who is the author of the Bible? The reason I am asking this question is to cause those who do not know the answer, to reason with themselves as to the logical answer.


Authorship of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The following excerpts were taken from the above site:

"Few biblical books are regarded by scholars as the product of a single individual; all the books of the Old Testament have been edited and revised to produce the work known today.[1] The following article outlines the conclusions of the majority of contemporary scholars, along with the traditional views, both Jewish and Christian."

Under the heading "Divine Authorship", we read:

"Both Jews and Christians have, in different ways, regarded the Bible as being the "Word of God". In many Christian liturgies, the words "This is the word of the Lord" will follow a Scripture reading.Thomas Aquinas stated it bluntly, "The author of Holy Scripture is God".[2] Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) asserts that the Bible's authority depends "wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the Author thereof; and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God".[3]"
[1] Rabin 2006, P. 113
[2] "Quod auctor sacrae Scriturae est Deus" Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Article 10.
[3] Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter I, Paragraph iv.


Textual Criticism: Fact and Fiction (1/4)


The following excerpt was taken from the above site:


“Textual Criticism: Fact and Fiction (1/4)
Preface & Introduction

Textual Criticism Fact and Fiction
a fresh look at Bible Inspiration Preservation And Translation
by Dr. Thomas Cassidy (tcassidy@isat.com)”


I showed the above excerpt so that the readers of this thread would know who the author is. The next excerpt comes from the second page of this article.


Textual Criticism: Fact and Fiction (2/4)
The following excerpts were taken from the above site:


“Section One - Inspiration
Inspiration is defined as that work of the Holy Spirit of God upon the minds, souls, and bodies of the Scripture writers which makes their writings the record of a progressive divine revelation. When God determined to give to His creation the Self-revelation that we today call the Bible, He selected the Prophets of the Old Testament, and the Apostles of the New Testament, and through the agency of His indwelling Holy Spirit so over came the sin nature of these men that the words which He selected from the reservoir of the culture, education, experience, and personality of the man were His chosen words, and no others. This process of inspiration was two fold: Verbal, the very words that God selected were the very words that best revealed the mind and will of God to His creation. Thus, every word so inspired was in fact, the Word of God. Plenary, the collection of words that we call the Bible is, in its whole, the complete Word of God, without error or contradiction. The entire Bible, regardless of subject matter, is the infallible, unfailing, Revelation of God.


“The Verbal and Formal Inspiration position believes that first of all the Holy Spirit worked in the Prophets of the Old Testament and the Apostles of the New Testament in such a way that the very words of God were selected from the vocabulary of the man, taking into account his culture, education, and experience, and that not only the very words, but also the forms of the words, such as noun, pronoun, verb, adverb, singular, plural, etc., were written at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. This view is the only one that can give us a completely inspired, inerrant, infallible, preserved Bible, as well as account for such statements as Paul saying that the very form of a word was inspired by God for a specific purpose as in Galatians 3:16, and Christ saying in Matthew 5:18 that not only was each word inspired, but every letter of every word was inspired. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the perfect mirror of the Lord Jesus Christ, which reflects Him and leads us to Him. Authority resides in the Scriptures just as it does in Him. Just as all authority is given to Christ (Matthew 28:18), the living Word, all authority is bound up in the Scriptures, the reflection of Him, the written Word of God.”
For the benefit of those reading this thread, Dr, Cassidy (before retiring) was the President of the San Diego Baptist Theological Seminary and Bible Institute. Over the years Dr. Cassidy has published many works. Please take the time to read the entire four part article.


Dr. Cassidy continues:


“Now comes the problem we face in fundamental circles today. What exactly was it that God inspired. Was it men? Was it manuscripts? Was it languages? One of the greatest failings of fundamentalism today is this confusion concerning the doctrine of inspiration. If you were to ask every independent, fundamental Baptist Pastor what it was that God inspired, most would reply "the original manuscripts." However, you can search the scriptures forever, and never find a reference to the "original manuscripts." But you will find, over and over again references to the "words" that God has spoken. God did not inspire men or manuscripts, He inspired words! God did not concern Himself with parchment, vellum, papyrus, and ink, but with words! It was, and still is, the words of God that are inspired. It makes absolutely no difference if those inspired words are written by the hand of Moses, Samuel, David, Daniel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, or if they were carefully copied by a copyist in his own handwriting, or if they are scrawled on the rest room wall! If they are the same words, they are God's words, and if they are God's words, they are inspired words!”


Continuing with the Doctrinal Statement from the Dallas Theological Seminary:


Doctrinal Statement | Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS)


“Article I—The Scriptures
We believe that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God,” by which we understand the whole Bible is inspired in the sense that holy men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. We believe that this divine inspiration extends equally and fully to all parts of the writings—historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical—as appeared in the original manuscripts. We believe that the whole Bible in the originals is therefore without error. We believe that all the Scriptures center about the Lord Jesus Christ in His person and work in His first and second coming, and hence that no portion, even of the Old Testament, is properly read, or understood, until it leads to Him. We also believe that all the Scriptures were designed for our practical instruction (Mark 12:26, 36; 13:11; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Acts 1:16; 17:2–3; 18:28; 26:22–23; 28:23; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 2:13; 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21).”


Notice the words, “We believe that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God,” by which we understand the whole Bible is inspired in the sense that holy men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture.” Allow me to point out even more, “to write the very words of Scripture”.


Can the 'scholars' of DTS get any plainer on the subject?
God is the author of the Word of God (the Bible). The “very words of Scripture” were given by God to men.


Does the above make this any simpler?


Jack
 
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Jack Koons

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The Two Families of Manuscripts

The two main families of manuscripts are the Alexandrian (which are the basis for the Critical Text), and the Byzantine text type (which are the majority of all NT texts, hence they are known as the Majority Text).


Trinitarian Bible Society - What today's Christian needs to know about the Greek New Testament

The following excerpts were taken from the above site:

“The Traditional Text

“First of all it is necessary to understand what is meant by the term 'traditional text'. During the 1st century following the resurrection of Christ, God moved men to pen His Word (2 Peter 1.21). The result was a group of letters and books, written in Koine Greek (called the 'original autographs'). These letters and books were copied and recopied throughout the centuries and distributed throughout the world. These copies comprise the manuscripts of the New Testament. Over 5,000 of these Greek manuscripts have survived to this day. The great number of these Greek manuscripts supports what is called the Byzantine textual tradition, Byzantine because it came from all over the Greek-speaking world at that time. These Byzantine manuscripts make up what is called the Traditional Text of the New Testament. The best printed representation of this Byzantine text-type is the Textus Receptus (or Received Text). In addition to the manuscripts, we also have available many works in which numerous Church Fathers quoted from the manuscripts. The work of John Burgon has established that the basic text used by numerous Church Fathers is the same as the text now known as the Byzantine Text.

“The Textus Receptus was compiled from a number of Byzantine manuscripts by numerous editors from the early 1500s. There were editions from textual editors such as Erasmus, Stephens, Beza, the Elzevirs, Mill and Scrivener. These editions differ slightly from one another but still are regarded as the same basic text. Certain editions were popular in different countries and provided the basis for New Testament translations. The Textus Receptus (as it later became known) was the text used by Tyndale and in turn by the translators of the English Authorised (King James) Version of 1611 and other Reformation era translations.

“The Critical Text

“During the 19th and 20th centuries, however, another form of Greek New Testament has come into the forefront and is used for most modern New Testament translations. This Critical Text, as it is called, differs widely from the Traditional Text in that it omits many words, verses and passages which are found in the Received Text and translations based upon it.

“The modern versions are based mainly upon a Greek New Testament which was derived from a small handful of Greek manuscripts from the 4th century onwards. Two of these manuscripts, which many modern scholars claim to be superior to the Byzantine, are the Sinai manuscript and the Vatican manuscript (c. 4th century). These are derived from a text type known as the Alexandrian text (because of its origin in Egypt); this text type was referred to by the textual critics Westcott and Hort as the 'Neutral text'. These two manuscripts form the basis of the Greek New Testament, referred to as the Critical Text, which has been in widespread use since the late 19th century. In recent years there has been an attempt to improve this text by calling it an 'eclectic' text (meaning that many other manuscripts were consulted in its editing and evolution), but it is still a text which has as its central foundation these two manuscripts.”

There are a few things I would like to say at this point. The KJV is derived from the Majority Text, while every Bible produced since 1881 is derived from the Critical Text. The critics of the KJV often make the accusation (without having a proper understanding of the facts), that those who support and use the KJV exclusively, cannot show give a proper lineage for such a belief. However, when the facts are presented properly, one finds that it is actually the followers of the Critical Text who cannot give a proper lineage of modern Bibles. When one studies church history, one finds that those who followed the Critical Text only had Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Even though the Sinaiticus dates back to AD 350, it was only discovered in 1844 at Mt. Sinai in St. Catherine's Monastery. This means of course that it was not in the hands of people to be read. The other major Alexandrian Text, the Vaticanus was discovered in the Vaticanus Library in 1481, and the public had no access to it. So while the Christians in the Byzantine region were reading from preserved MSS and Bibles, in both Greek and Latin; the followers of the Church of Rome were at the mercy of the Pope.

God used the Reformation to bring His Word (The Bible) into the language that would sweep across the globe, English. After the publication of the KJV the critics, starting with Johann Semler would first reject the Divine inspiration of the Scripture, and then, in the days of Westcott and Hort, write a brand new Greek Text which would be based upon the Alexandrian type MSS which were filled with changes including the deletion of much of the text. Gnosticism was wide-spread in Egypt, especially in Alexandria. This publishing of the W/H Greek Text would be the anchor of all modern Bibles. Since Nestle purchased the copyright of the W/H Greek Text, it has gone through 28 Editions. The KJV on the other hand, was first published in 1611, and went through 4 editions, (5 if you count Scrivener's [which is not the one used by most people today], in order to make corrections mainly due to type-set errors, spelling changes, and font type changes. The other main difference with the final 1769 Edition of the King James is that the Apocrypha (which the scholar's of everyone except the Catholic Church denied as being part of the Scripture) was removed. The Apocrypha was located between the Old and New Testaments.

In short, there have been, since the first century, two distinct families of MSS, and two distinct families of Bible's; those of the Alexandrian type, and those of the Byzantine type. Furthermore, since the Reformation, there has also been two families of English Bibles; those that are part of the lineage of the King James, and those that have followed the English Version of 1881.

Jack
 
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When a statement like "no scholar writes 'the words of God'" is made, an automatic exclusion of anyone who believes the Bible contains "the wrods of God" ensues.

That is the kind of willful blindness that the typical liberal scholar engages in.

I am too busy to check out Koon's facts. I still think he is wrong about a perfect transmission of the Bible. Nonetheless, I have no use for any scholar who starts out with the presumption that the Bible is not the Words of God.

JR
 
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Jack Koons

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The following is what I posted earlier, this time I am adding documentation. As is my normal fashion, I will supply a link, followed by excerpts from that link.

There are a few things I would like to say at this point. The KJV is derived from the Majority Text, while every Bible produced since 1881 is derived from the Critical Text.

Alexandrian text-type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Alexandrian text-type (also called Neutral or Egyptian), associated with Alexandria, is one of several text-types used in New Testament textual criticism to describe and group the textual character of biblical manuscripts. The Alexandrian text-type is the form of the Greek New Testament that predominates in the earliest surviving documents, as well as the text-type used in Egyptian Coptic manuscripts. In later manuscripts (from the 9th century onwards), the Byzantine text-type became far more common and remains as the standard text in the Greek Orthodox church and also underlies most Protestant translations of the Reformation era. Most modern New Testaments are based on what is called "reasoned eclecticism" (such as that of the Nestle-Aland 27, the basis of virtually all modern translations) in formulating a Greek text; this invariably results in a text that is strongly Alexandrian in character. Some modern translations break from strict adherence to the critical Alexandrian text and adopt some readings from the traditional Byzantine text-type and other textual traditions;[1] A small minority of modern translations still maintain a close adherence to the traditional text while noting major variants, namely, the New King James Version."


The critics of the KJV often make the accusation (without having a proper understanding of the facts), that those who support and use the KJV exclusively, cannot show give a proper lineage for such a belief. However, when the facts are presented properly, one finds that it is actually the followers of the Critical Text who cannot give a proper lineage of modern Bibles. When one studies church history, one finds that those who followed the Critical Text only had Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Even though the Sinaiticus dates back to AD 350, it was only discovered in 1844 at Mt. Sinai in St. Catherine's Monastery.


Constantin von Tischendorf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"From Paris, he had paid short visits to the Netherlands (1841) and England (1842). In 1843 he visited Italy, and after a stay of thirteen months, went on to Egypt, Sinai, and the Levant, returning by Vienna and Munich. In 1844, he paid his first visit to the convent of Saint Catherine's Monastery, on Mount Sinai. Tischendorf reported in his 1865 book Wann Wurden Unsere Evangelen Verfasst, translated to English in 1866 as When Were Our Gospels Written in the section "The Discovery of the Sinaitic Manuscript" that he found, in a trash basket, forty-three sheets of parchment of an ancient copy of the Greek Old Testament, reporting that the monks were using the trash to start fires. And Tischendorf, horrified, asked if he could have them. He deposited them at the University of Leipzig, under the title of the Codex Friderico-Augustanus, a name given in honour of his patron, Frederick Augustus II of Saxony, king of Saxony. The fragments were published in 1846 although he kept the place of discovery a secret. Many have been skeptical of the historical accuracy of this report of saving a 1500-year old parchment from the flames. J. Rendel Harris referred to the story as a myth. [3]"

Time Line of Early Christianity--The Lost Gospel of Judas--National Geographic


"The codex was written down by three different scribes who were most likely early Christian monks.
The codex resided for many centuries in St. Catherine's monastery on Egypt's Mount Sinai (now called Gebel Mûsa). Since its 19th-century "discovery" it has proved irreplaceable to biblical scholars.
In 1844 German scholar Konstantin von Tischendorf found some of the world's oldest existing biblical parchments in the monastery's library—but they were tantalizingly incomplete.
He made two more trips to St. Catherine's, and on the second, in 1859, he brokered a deal to acquire the Codex Sinaiticus for Tsar Alexander II of Russia. In 1933 the Soviet government sold the codex to the British Museum, where much of it remains."

This means of course that it was not in the hands of people to be read.

The other major Alexandrian Text, the Vaticanus was discovered in the Vaticanus Library in 1481, and the public had no access to it.

Codex Vaticanus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"The Codex Vaticanus (The Vatican, Bibl. Vat., Vat. gr. 1209; no. B or 03 Gregory-Aland, δ 1 von Soden), is one of the oldest extant manuscripts of the Greek Bible (Old and New Testament), one of the four great uncial codices.[1] The Codex is named after its place of conservation in the Vatican Library, where it has been kept since at least the 15th century.[2] It is written on 759 leaves of vellum in uncial letters and has been dated palaeographically to the 4th century.[3][4]
The manuscript became known to Western scholars as a result of correspondence between Erasmus and the prefects of the Vatican Library. Portions of the codex were collated by several scholars, but numerous errors were made during this process. The Codex's relationship to the Latin Vulgate was unclear and scholars were initially unaware of the Codex's value.[5] This changed in the 19th century when transcriptions of the full codex were completed.[1] It was at that point that scholars realised the text differed significantly from the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus.[6]"

Just as a side note, notice the above words, "The manuscript became known to Western scholars as a result of correspondence between Erasmus and the prefects of the Vatican Library. " This gives evidence to the fact that Erasmus was in fact aware of the Vaticanus, but chose NOT to use it when making his Greek text.


So while the Christians in the Byzantine region were reading from preserved MSS and Bibles, in both Greek and Latin; the followers of the Church of Rome were at the mercy of the Pope.

Main Page - Textus Receptus

"Textus Receptus (Latin: "received text") is the name retroactively given to the succession of printed Greek language texts of the New Testament which constituted the textual base for the original German Luther Bible, for the translation of the New Testament into English by William Tyndale (1526), Myles Coverdale's Bible (1535), Matthew's Bible (1537), The Great Bible (1539), The Geneva Bible (1557 - 60), The Bishops' Bible (1568), and the King James Version (1611), and for most other Reformation-era New Testament translations throughout Western and Central Europe. The Textus Receptus has been translated into hundreds of languages. (See Also The Word of God for All Nations) The origin of the term "Textus Receptus" comes from the publisher's preface to the 1633 edition produced by Abraham Elzevir and his nephew Bonaventure who were printers at Leiden:
Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum: in quo nihil immutatum aut corruptum damus. Translated "so you hold the text, now received by all, in which nothing corrupt."
The two words, "textum" and "receptum", were modified from the accusative to the nominative case to render textus receptus. Over time, this term has been retroactively applied to Erasmus' editions, as his work served as the basis of others that followed. Many supporters of the Textus Receptus will name any manuscript which agrees with the Textus Receptus Greek as a "Textus Receptus" type manuscript. This type of association can also apply to early church quotations and language versions."


God used the Reformation to bring His Word (The Bible) into the language that would sweep across the globe, English. After the publication of the KJV the critics, starting with Johann Semler would first reject the Divine inspiration of the Scripture, and then, in the days of Westcott and Hort, write a brand new Greek Text which would be based upon the Alexandrian type MSS which were filled with changes including the deletion of much of the text. Gnosticism was wide-spread in Egypt, especially in Alexandria. This publishing of the W/H Greek Text would be the anchor of all modern Bibles. Since Nestle purchased the copyright of the W/H Greek Text, it has gone through 28 Editions.

Johann Salomo Semler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The importance of Semler, sometimes called "the father of German rationalism", in the history of theology and the human mind is that of a critic of biblical and ecclesiastical documents and of the history of dogmas. He was not a philosophical thinker or theologian, though he insisted, with an energy and persistency before unknown, on certain distinctions of great importance when properly worked out and applied, e.g. the distinction between religion and theology, that between private personal beliefs and public historical creeds, and that between the local and temporal and the permanent elements of historical religion. His great work was that of the critic. He was the first to reject the equal value of the Old and New Testaments, the uniform authority of all parts of the Bible, the divine authority of the traditional canon of Scripture, the inspiration and supposed correctness of the text of the Old and New Testaments, and, generally, the identification of revelation with Scripture."

Nestle Aland Novum Testamentum Graece :: History

"In 1898 Eberhard Nestle published the first edition of his Novum Testamentum Graece. Based on a simple yet ingenious idea it disseminated the insights of the textual criticism of that time through a hand edition designed for university and school studies and for church purposes. Nestle took the three leading scholarly editions of the Greek New Testament at that time by Tischendorf, Westcott/Hort and Weymouth as a basis. (After 1901 he replaced the latter with Bernhard Weiߒs 1894/1900 edition.) Where their textual decisions differed from each other Nestle chose for his own text the variant which was preferred by two of the editions included, while the variant of the third was put into the apparatus."


The KJV on the other hand, was first published in 1611, and went through 4 editions, (5 if you count Scrivener's [which is not the one used by most people today], in order to make corrections mainly due to type-set errors, spelling changes, and font type changes. The other main difference with the final 1769 Edition of the King James is that the Apocrypha (which the scholar's of everyone except the Catholic Church denied as being part of the Scripture) was removed. The Apocrypha was located between the Old and New Testaments.

In short, there have been, since the first century, two distinct families of MSS, and two distinct families of Bible's; those of the Alexandrian type, and those of the Byzantine type. Furthermore, since the Reformation, there has also been two families of English Bibles; those that are part of the lineage of the King James, and those that have followed the English Version of 1881.

Jack
 
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ArtB

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When discussing the preservation of the Text of the New Testament, a question is always put forth about which Text has been preserved since the original autographs? It is my opinion (whatever that is worth) that, while this seems to be a truly valid question on the surface; is it really nothing more than a question designed by textual criticism, to force their opponents to prove this via MS evidence, which they know doesn't exist. The problem is that EVERYTHING about the Bible has everything to do with FAITH. Faith in the WORD of God. Not the 'story-line' of the Bible, but faith in each and every 'word of God' given and counted as Scripture.

Depending on who you might ask, some 90 to 99% of the Bible is supposed to be pure. It is also stated that those parts which are in doubt are nonessential to any Bible doctrine. (I for one would hate to be the person standing before God explaining that point.)

So the question of this thread is simply this: Keeping Proverbs 30:5 (Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.) in mind, Where has God preserved His Words, and kept them pure?

Jack

Hello Jack.

The answer to your question, Where has God preserved, and kept them pure?

Here is a published by the very respected Biblical scholar: Norman Geisler

The Gospel of Luke was written by the same author as the Acts of the Apostles, who refers to Luke as the 'former account' of 'all that Jesus began to do and teach' (Acts 1:1). The destiny ('Theophilus'), style, and vocabulary of the two books betray a common author. Roman historian Colin Hemer has provided powerful evidence that Acts was written between AD 60 and 62. This evidence includes these observations:
1. There is no mention in Acts of the crucial event of the fall of Jerusalem in 70.
2. There is no hint of the outbreak of the Jewish War in 66 or of serious deterioration of relations between Romans and Jews before that time.
3. There is no hint of the deterioration of Christian relations with Rome during the Neronian persecution of the late 60s.
4. There is no hint of the death of James at the hands of the Sanhedrin in ca. 62, which is recorded by Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews (20.9.1.200).
5. The significance of Gallio's judgement in Acts 18:14-17 may be seen as setting precedent to legitimize Christian teaching under the umbrella of the tolerance extended to Judaism.
6. The prominence and authority of the Sadducees in Acts reflects a pre-70 date, before the collapse of their political cooperation with Rome.
7. The relatively sympathetic attitude in Acts to Pharisees (unlike that found even in Luke's Gospel) does not fit well with in the period of Pharisaic revival that led up to the council at Jamnia. At that time a new phase of conflict began with Christianity.
8. Acts seems to antedate the arrival of Peter in Rome and implies that Peter and John were alive at the time of the writing.
9. The prominence of 'God-fearers' in the synagogues may point to a pre-70 date, after which there were few Gentile inquiries and converts to Jerusalem.
10. Luke gives insignificant details of the culture of an early, Julio-Claudian period.
11. Areas of controversy described presume that the temple was still standing.
12. Adolf Harnack contended that Paul's prophecy in 20:25 (cf. 20:38) may have been contradicted by later events. If so, the book must have appeared before those events.
13. Christian terminology used in Acts reflects an earlier period. Harnack points to use of Iusous and Ho Kurios, while Ho Christos always designates 'the Messiah,' and is not a proper name for Jesus.
14. The confident tone of Acts seems unlikely during the Neronian persecutions of Christians and the Jewish War with the Rome during the late 60s.
15. The action ends very early in the 60s, yet the description in Acts 27 and 28 is written with a vivid immediacy. It is also an odd place to end the book if years have passed since the pre-62 events transpired.
If Acts was written in 62 or before, and Luke was written before Acts (say 60), then Luke was written less than thirty years of the death of Jesus. This is contemporary to the generation who witnessed the events of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. This is precisely what Luke claims in the prologue to his Gospel:
Many have undertaken to draw up a record of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who were eye-witnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. [Luke 1:1-4]
Luke presents the same information about who Jesus is, what he taught, and his death and resurrection as do the other Gospels. Thus, there is not a reason to reject their historical accuracy either.
First Corinthians

It is widely accepted by critical and conservative scholars that 1 Corinthians was written by 55 or 56. This is less than a quarter century after the crucifixion in 33. Further, Paul speaks of more than 500 eyewitnesses to the resurrection who were still alive when he wrote (15:6). Specifically mentioned are the twelve apostles and James the brother of Jesus. Internal evidence is strong for this early date:
1. The book repeatedly claims to be written by Paul (1:1, 12-17; 3:4, 6, 22; 16:21).
2. There are parallels with the book of Acts.
3. There is a ring of authenticity to the book from beginning to end.
4. Paul mentions 500 who had seen Christ, most of whom were still alive.
5. The contents harmonize with what has been learned about Corinth during that era.
There is also external evidence:
1. Clement of Rome refers to it in his own Epistle to the Corinthians (chap. 47.)
2. The Epistle of Barnabas alludes to it (chap. 4).
3. Shepherd of Hermas mentions it (chap. 4).
4. There are nearly 600 quotations of 1 Corinthians in Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian alone (Theissen, 201). It is one of the best attested books of any kind from the ancient world.
Along with 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians and Galatians are well attested and early. All three reveal a historical interest in the events of Jesus' life and give facts that agree with the Gospels. Paul speaks of Jesus' virgin birth (Gal. 4:4), sinless life (2 Cor. 5:21), death on the cross (1 Cor. 15:3; Gal. 3:13); resurrection on the third day (1 Cor. 15:4), and post-resurrection appearances (1 Cor. 15:5-8). He mentions the hundreds of eyewitnesses who could verify the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:6). Paul rests the truth of Christianity on the historicity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:12-19). Paul also gives historical details about Jesus' contemporaries, the apostles (1 Cor. 15:5-8), including his private encounters with Peter and the apostles (Gal. 1:18-2:14). Surrounding persons, places, and events of Christ's birth were all historical. Luke goes to great pains to note that Jesus was born during the days of Caesar Augustus (Luke 2:1) and was baptised in the fifteenth year of Tiberius. Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee. Annas and Caiaphas were high priests (Luke 3:1-2).
Acceptance of Early Dates

There is a growing acceptance of earlier New Testament dates, even among some liberal scholars. Two illustrate this point, former liberal William F. Albright and radical critic John A.T. Robinson.
William F. Albright wrote, 'We can already say emphatically that there is no long any basis for dating any book of the New Testament after about A.D. 80, two full generations before the date between 130 and 150 given by the more radical New Testament critics of today.' (Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands, 136). Elsewhere Albright said, 'In my opinion, every book of the New Testament was written by a baptised Jew between the forties and eighties of the first century (very probably sometime between about A.D. 50 and 75)' ('Towards a More Conservative View,' 3).
This scholar went so far as to affirm that the evidence from the Qumran community show that the concepts, terminology, and mind set of the Gospel of John is probably first century ('Recent Discoveries in Palestine'). 'Thanks to the Qumran discoveries, the New Testament proves to be in fact what it was formerly believed to be: the teaching of Christ and his immediate followers between cir. 25 and cir. 80 A.D.' (From Stone Age to Christianity, 23).
Known for his role in launching the 'Death of God' movement, John A. T. Robinson wrote a revolutionary book titled Redating the New Testament, in which he posited revised dates for the New Testament books that place them earlier than the most conservative scholars ever held. Robinson places Matthew at 40 to after 60, Mark at about 45 to 60, Luke at before 57 to after 60, and John at from 40 to after 65. This would mean that one or two of the Gospels could have been written as early as seven years after the crucifixion. At the latest they were all composed within the lifetimes of eyewitnesses and contemporaries of the events. Assuming the basic integrity and reasonable accuracy of the writers, this would place the reliability of the New Testaments beyond reasonable doubt.
Other Evidence - Early Citations

Of the four Gospels alone there are 19,368 citations by the church fathers from the late first century on. This includes 268 by Justin Martyr (100-165), 1038 by Irenaeus (active in the late second century), 1017 by Clement of Alexandria (ca. 155-ca. 220), 9231 by Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254), 3822 by Tertullian (ca. 160s-ca. 220), (ca. 160s-ca. 220), 734 by Hippolytus (d. ca. 236), and 3258 by Eusebius (ca. 265-ca.339; Geisler, 431).
Earlier, Clement of Rome cited Matthew, John, and 1 Corinthians, in 95 to 97. Ignatius referred to six Pauline epistles in about 110, and between 110 and 150 Polycarp quoted from all four gospels, Acts, and most of Paul's epistles. Shepherd of Hermas (115-140) cited Matthew, Mark, Acts, 1 Corinthians, and other books. Didache (120-150) referred to Matthew, Luke, 1 Corinthians, and other books. Papias, companion of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John, quoted John. This argues powerfully that the gospels were in existence before the end of the first century, while some eyewitnesses (including John) were still alive.
Other Evidence - Early Greek Manuscripts

The earliest undisputed manuscript of a New Testament book is the John Rylands papyri (p52), dated from 117 to 138. This fragment of John's gospel survives from within a generation of composition. Since the book was composed in Asia Minor and this fragment was found in Egypt, some circulation time is demanded, surely placing composition of John within the first century. Whole books (Bodmer Papyri) are available from 200. Most of the New Testament, including all the gospels, is available in the Chester Beatty Papyri manuscript from 150 yeas after the New Testament was finished (ca. 250). No other book from the ancient world has as small a time gap between composition and earliest manuscript copies as the New Testament.

Jose O'Callahan, a Spanish Jesuit paleographer, made headlines around the world on March 18, 1972, when he identified a manuscript fragment from Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) as a piece from the gospel of Mark. The piece was from Cave 7. Fragments from this cave had previously been dated between 50 BC and AD 50, hardly within the time frame established for New Testament writings. Using the accepted methods of papyrology and palaeography, O'Callahan compared sequences of letters with existing documents and eventually identified nine fragments as belonging to one gospel, Acts, and few epistles. Some of these were dated slightly later than 50, but still extremely early:
TextFragmentApprox. dateMark 4:287Q6AD 50Mark 6:487Q15AD ?Mark 6:52, 537Q5AD 50Mark 12:177Q7AD 50Acts 27:387Q6AD 60+Rom. 55:11, 127Q9AD 70+1 Timothy 3:16, 4:1-37Q4AD 70+2 Peter 1:157Q10AD 70+James 1:23, 247Q8AD 70+
Conclusion

Both friends and critics acknowledge that, if valid, O'Callahan's conclusions will revolutionise New Testament theories. If even some of these fragments are from the New Testament, the implications for Christian apologetics are enormous. Mark and/or Acts must have been written within the lifetime of the apostles and contemporaries of the events. There would have been no time for mythological embellishment of the records. They must be accepted as historical. Mark could be shown to be an early gospel. There would hardly be time for a predecessor series of Q manuscripts. And since these manuscripts are not originals but copies, parts of the New Testament would have been shown to have been copied and disseminated during the lives of the writers. No first century date allows time for myths or legends to creep into the stories about Jesus. Legend development takes at least two full generations, according to A.N Sherwin-White (see Sherwin-White, 189). Physical remoteness from the actual events is also helpful. Neither are available here. The thought is utterly ridiculous with a ca. 50 or earlier Mark. Even putting aside O'Callahan's controversial claims, the cumulative evidence places the New Testament within the first century, and the lives of eyewitnesses.
 
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ArtB

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Sources for above article:

W.F. Albright, Archaeology and the Religion of Israel
- From Stone Age to Christianity
- Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands
- 'Recent Discoveries in Palestine and the Gospel of St. John,' in W.D. Davies and David Daube, eds., The Background of the New Testament and Its Eschatology
- 'William Albright: Towards a More Conservative View,' Christianity Today (18 January 1963)
R. Bultmann, Kerygma and Myth: A Theological Debate
D. Estrada and W. White, Jr., The First New Testament
E. Fisher, 'New Testament Documents among the Dead Sea Scrolls?' The Bible Today 61 (1972)
P. Garnet, 'O'Callahan's Fragments: Our Earliest New Testament Texts?' Evangelical Quarterly 45 (1972)
N. Geisler, General Introduction to the Bible.
C.J. Hemer, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History
B. Orchard, 'A Fragment of St. Mark's Gospel Dating from before AD 50?' Biblical Apostolate 6 (1972)
W.N. Pickering, The Identification of the New Testament Text
W. White, Jr, 'O'Callahan's Identifications: Confirmation and Its Consequences, 'Westminster Journal 35 (1972)
J.A.T. Robinson, Redating the New Testament
A.N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament.
H.C. Theissen, Introduction to the New Testament.
J. Wenham, Redating Matthew, Mark, and Luke: A Fresh Assault on the Synoptic Problem
E. Yamauchi, 'Easter-Myth, Hallucination, or History,' Christianity Today (15 March 1974; 28 march 1974)

This is an excerpt from 'The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics' by Norman L. Geisler (pp. 37-41) available in the UK from STL through Wesley Owen bookshops.
 
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Jack Koons

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Hello ArtB,

As I have stated on numerous occasions, the was accepted as the Word of God; historically, scientifically, and doctrinally. Why? Well because it is, and has always been just that, the Word of God! Along come (to borrow some words from Cubanito) some 'white coats' claiming to know more about
God's Word than the Author Himself, and say, Wait just a minute, we know better. The entire reason for the big shift in issues in the church such as “women preachers” (again as so eloquently stated by Cubanito in the Thread titled, “Women Can't Preach”,) ...

“This is unfortunately a common situation in many Churches, were men from birth have been taught to suppress their agressive masculine traits, were they are told time and again women are better at everything, and were every commercial and TV sit com portrays them as stupid and uninvolved. Something happened in the 1800's were Churches became heavily feminized, and an emasculated form of Christianity became the norm in Protestant Churches as it had been long in Roman and Orthodox ones.”

… is that in the 1800's preachers allowed two heretics to give them a new Greek Text that was based on the Alexandrian type manuscripts, instead of the Majority text, which had been in use throughout the Byzantine area since the time of the Apostles, until that time. God has in deed preserved His Word throughout the years, in spite of what the so-called 'white coats' like to proclaim.

Jack
 
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