Who said Job was blameless?

[Setyoufree]

Job 36:1 Elihu continued (to Job): 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf!"


(NAS) Job 32: "...the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned ; against Job his anger burned because he (Job) justified himself before God."

 

[Setyoufree]

Job 32: "(Job) justified himself before God."

And again,

For those of you, like Job, who wish to vindicate yourself before God, He will present your righteousness before Satan as He did Job. In other words He will not vindicate you in Himself.


Given enough self-righteousness God will eventually remove Himself and trouble will come your way. Self-righteousness is essentially unbelief

 

[Setyoufree]

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness...Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself:

'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'....

14 "I tell you that this man (tax collector), rather than the other (the self-righteous Pharisee), went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself (like the Pharisee) will be humbled, and he who humbles himself (like the sinner) will be exalted."

Q: Was Job humbled?

A: Yes!

Q: Why?

A: He exalted his righteousness before God

Q: Where does it say that?

A: Job:31:6/32:2/33:8,9 just to name a few.

 

[Setyoufree]

It is Christ's work to present us blameless "in Himself" and not by our performance.

Col 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross ; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

You are complete in Christ and not in yourself, by your performance. We are only acceptable "in Christ".

 

[brinny]

We do not agree brother. Many of us suffer without cause. It is par for the course as a follower, as evidenced by the many martyrs throughout history. Perhaps what is most hurtful however, is to be misunderstood in the midst of that suffering. That is a specially cutting kind of pain and deals a more deadly blow than the enemy's blows combined. It is in those moments that one feels the most alone (even as Jesus Himself felt it, as He hung on the cross asking why His God had forsaken Him)

Suffering is misunderstood by many, but it is especially wounding when it is so misunderstood by a fellow believer.

Thoughts on Job.
The more i read about Job, the more he, and other men of God become endearing to me and I can get a better picture of their actual journey with God. I see, in their obedience, in each step they take, glimpses of God rejoicing over them with singing. I also see the necessity of prayer for each other, and for those out in the trenches risking ev'rything for the God they love. And getting back to Job.....recently i have heard several preachers and teachers pick him apart, immune it seems to the horror he was experiencing, and "in the dark" about it, without a shred of indication why it was happening. Yet, he NEVER cursed God, nor rejected Him nor turned his back on God. He never sinned during any of it. he merely, in his agonies, questioned why God allowed all of this to assault him in too many ways to count. He KNEW that God controlled EVERYTHING. He was questioning the One Who was able to control all that was continually coming against him.

My question to the preachers and teachers who pick apart Job is, "what would you do if you were in Job's place.?"

As a believer, we learn...to ALWAYS pray for our brothers and sisters, especially in their troubles, suffering, sickness. And if one has ever suffered, and/or been in the fiery furnace of affliction, one NEVER wishes suffering or hardship or inexplicable, inconsolable pain on another, including our enemies. We never ever put the sufferer under a microscope and pick them to pieces. Compassion comes into play, and a mooooving of one's heart and mind and spirit on their behalf.

We are the "Body" of Christ. Jesus Christ meant it when He defined us as the bonafide Body of Christ. We cannot be "disconnected" from a brother or sister going through inexplicable agonies. Job wasn't able to explain why this was happening. So his friends filled in the blanks with accusations, badgering Job in the midst of his travails of unbelieveable suffering, to admit his sins. Not ONE of them put theirself in Job's place or even offered "prayer" or any consolation or response that meant Job well. It reminds me of a phrase i heard a while back (or was it a book?) It was called "Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded?".

Job's wife and his friends were hard hearted, leaving him in even more misery in the ashes and dust. Not one of them put theirself in his place. Not one of them prayed for him.

What is so wounding is that Job's friends and his wife pierced him at his lowest and added misery upon misery. THAT is not of God. And THAT is the piece that is sorely missing here. And THAT is one of the pieces, the "keys" to understanding Job, the Book of Job, and God's mind and heart in all of this.

Furnace of Affliction.

"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." ~Isaiah 48:10​

EXPOSITION BY C. H. SPURGEON:
JOB 23; 24.

Always remember, dear Friends, that one of the great lessons of the Book of Job is this—that we may never judge a
man’s character by his condition. The best of men may have the most of suffering and of poverty, while the worst of men
may prosper in everything. Do not imagine because a man suddenly becomes very poor or a great sufferer, that therefore
he must be a great sinner—otherwise, you will often condemn the innocent, and you will, at the same time, be guilty of
flattering the wicked. Job’s friends had cruelly told him that he must be a hypocrite, or else he would not have lost his
property and have been smitten with such a remarkable sickness. So he appeals to God against their unrighteous judgment.
Job 23:1, 2. Then Job answered and said, Even today is my complaint bitter: my stroke is heavier than my groaning.
“Although my groaning is heavy, yet it is not so burdensome as my griefs might warrant.”
3. Oh that I knew where I might find Him! That I might come even to His seat! “To His Judgment Seat, that I might
plead my cause and vindicate my character even there.”
4-6. I would order my cause before Him, and fill my mouth with arguments. I would know the words which He
would answer me, and understand what He would say unto me. Will He plead against me with His great power? “Being
the great God, will He silence me by a display of His Omnipotence? Oh, no! He is too just to do that.”

http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols46-48/chs2732.pdf

Job 23:3-Evening-Spurgeon - YouTube

 

[granpa]

Jobs friends thought that bad things were happening to him because of some sin that he had committed.
The Bible makes it clear that bad things were happening to him not because of some sin that he had committed
but rather to test to see if he would curse God to his face.
job obviously didnt do that and therefore passed the test

the Bible also makes it clear that this test came not from God but rather from the devil

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil,
and he himself puts no man to such a test:

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

If Job were self-righteous (which is a grave sin that Jesus rebuked in the scribes and Pharisees with very strong language) then why does God say this about Job?

Job 42:7-9 RSV 7 After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eli'phaz the Te'manite: "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eli'phaz the Te'manite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Na'amathite went and did what the LORD had told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.
​

Do you think God was commending Job for saying he was innocent and not deserving of his suffering? Do you think Job was commended for charging God with injustice?

No! God only commended Job after he REPENTED, for Job only spoke rightly after he acknowledge his sin. Job admits his sin of not speaking the truth; "Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know."

This only came after first Elihu rebuked him and then God himself rebuked Job with these words; 38:2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? and 40:1 "The Lord said to Job: “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!”

So I ask this question. What kind of person accuses God of injustice, one that says he does not deserve the treatment that God bestowed on him? Is that a humble person or a proud person? It is obvious that Job was proud of his righteous life and expected God to treat him with favor.

Why do I always get the feeling that people's understanding of the book of Job is incomplete. It is like they only read the first 2 chapters and the last chapter and think everything in between is of no pertinence.

 

[granpa]

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

 

[brinny]

Do you think God was commending Job for saying he was innocent and not deserving of his suffering? Do you think Job was commended for charging God with injustice?

No! God only commended Job after he REPENTED, for Job only spoke rightly after he acknowledge his sin. Job admits his sin of not speaking the truth; "Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know."

This only came after first Elihu rebuked him and then God himself rebuked Job with these words; 38:2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? and 40:1 "The Lord said to Job: “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!”

So I ask this question. What kind of person accuses God of injustice, one that says he does not deserve the treatment that God bestowed on him? Is that a humble person or a proud person? It is obvious that Job was proud of his righteous life and expected God to treat him with favor.

Why do I always get the feeling that people's understanding of the book of Job is incomplete. It is like they only read the first 2 chapters and the last chapter and think everything in between is of no pertinence.

Job was calling out to God in his utter desperation and utter confusion with the added disorientation the suffering was causing. Satan was allowed to even come to Job in his dreams and torture him. God had removed the hedge of protection, which also indicates that Job was unable to sense God's presence. He was crying out, desperate for his God. Before all of the domino effect of catastrophes (including the deaths of all ten of his children, who he had just buried) he was "walking" with God. He FEARED God. He AVOIDED and shunned evil, TWO traits that indicate one "walks" with GOd and "knows" God and "speaks" to GOd as easily as breathing. THese two traits are given by God Himself to those who BELIEVE God and acknowledge God and His holy-ness. THIS is why God said what He did about Job, to Satan. And this is why it is repeated more than once. It is recorded by God Himself what God thought of Job. Job gave God glory. He lived with all his heart before God. NONE of this would not have been said of Job if he was not "right" before God and if Job had an inner "self-righteousness" that God abhors. Job would have never been chosen by God to be place in this fiery furnace of affliction if he did not have right standing before God.

Worshiping God in the beauty of God's holiness was as natural to Job as breathing, because he "walked" with God, and knew Him, and poured his life out before God each moment. This is why after hearing all ten of his children were horribly killed, he "worshiped" God. THIS is what he did, always in his life and in his household.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you think God was commending Job for saying he was innocent and not deserving of his suffering? Do you think Job was commended for charging God with injustice?

No! God only commended Job after he REPENTED ...

That's not the truth. Let me quote God again,

In the land of Uz there was a blameless and upright man named Job, who feared God and avoided evil. ... And the LORD said to Satan, Have you noticed my servant Job, and that there is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil?
Job 1:1-8 NAB
​

God commends Job before any accusation is made against him. It is noteworthy that in the story of Job the only accusers are Satan and Job's unfaithful friends and they were condemned by God. Have you considered whose side you're speaking for?

 

[Setyoufree]

God commends Job before any accusation is made against him.

Job 1:1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.

This was most likely written by Moses. Here Moses is not quoting God as he does in Job 1:8

It is noteworthy that in the story of Job the only accusers are Satan and Job's unfaithful friends and they were condemned by God.

Yes, and Elihu also got on their case:

Job 32:3 "He was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job (i.e., his claims of blamelessness), and yet had condemned him."

Keep in mind that Elihu was never condemned by God. In fact Elihu claimed he spoke for God (see Job 36:2). God never, ever condemned Elihu for his claim.

Therefore Elihu clearly had it right concerning Job.

Job's problem was not outward sin. On the outside, he kept all the rules. So did the Pharisees, but Christ "You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones".

So yes, outwardly, Job appeared blameless, but on the inside his motive was self-centered. That's how a legalist always works. He does seemingly good things, but for a reward.

Doing good for a reward is not doing good, it's being selfish. Agape love does something good for nothing in return. That's why Jesus said, "without Me you can do nothing" - nothing good, that is.

So it is impossible for fallen mankind to produce good things from a corrupt life. Hence all we can produce is self-righteousness or works done for our gain.

So Job's problem was self-righteousness. He even dares to charge God with injustice concerning him. And on top of all this Job justifies himself before God as if he had something to offer God.

Job definitely had a problem and Elihu nailed Job's problem.

Have you considered whose side you're speaking for?

Those siding with Job are siding on the side of Phariseeism. How many of you would stand before God and present your righteousness before Him?

How many of you would dare to claim to be righteous as God is righteous?

No men can stand just before God. All are sinners....

We can only stand just before God "in Christ Jesus". He is our advocate. We are not our own advocate because we have nothing to offer. We are bankrupt of righteousness and agape.

Only as we rest in Christ can we actually experience God's love in our lives. A legalist will never experience agape, because if God gave him that gift he would use it for his own glory. In other words it would make him more proud.

So God gives grace to the humble, but humbles the self-righteous.

 

[Setyoufree]

Many of us suffer without cause.

Because we live in a world based on iniquity is why we all suffer, but Job suffered because God stepped back from his life.

Yet, he NEVER cursed God, nor rejected Him nor turned his back on God.

Saul (turned Paul) also believed in God. He never cursed Him, etc. But Saul had a problem. So did Job. And it needed correcting.

EXPOSITION BY C. H. SPURGEON:

Spurgeon is not the last word. The Bible and the Bible only has the last word. I can not align my thoughts to his, but I must honestly let the Spirit guide.

 

[Setyoufree]

What happened to the self-righteous Jews (the non-believers) in Christ's day?

They crucified the Son of God.

Why? In their eyes He was a sinner and "according to their law" He had to die.

God could have forgiven the Jews for murdering Christ, but when they covered up the resurrection (fully knowing that Christ was the Messiah) probation ended for the Jews.

What was their problem?

Self-righteousness.

What happened?

They all died in the siege of Jerusalem, except of the believing Jews.

That's why Christ said, "37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate!"

Why weren't they willing?

Because they were Self-righteousness!

They didn't need a stinking Savior!!! They had the law, and according to their own self-righteous' views they were good people.

They were so good they murder the Son of God.

That's were a self-righteous spirit will take you. It will make you a monster. Why? Because all it is, is the flesh trying to act good. It's all smoke and mirrors.

 

[brinny]

Because we live in a world based on iniquity is why we all suffer, but Job suffered because God stepped back from his life.



Saul (turned Paul) also believed in God. He never cursed Him, etc. But Saul had a problem. So did Job. And it needed correcting.



Spurgeon is not the last word. The Bible and the Bible only has the last word. I can not align my thoughts to his, but I must honestly let the Spirit guide.

Job was crying out to God in all of his suffering. He was crying out, "praying". He was seeking God's presence, for he was sorely missing his God.

Study very carefully why God said what He said about Job. Study also, very carefully Job's wife and friends and their reactions to Job and what they said and the state of their hearts and what prompted them to say to JOb what they did, as they hammered on him without empathy, compassion, or putting themselves in Job's place, or even offering up a prayer for Job.

They were being used by someone, but not by God. Why do you think Satan did not kill Job's wife when he killed all of Job's ten children? NOTHING any of them said were from God. THey were being used to further persecute Job and to add misery upon misery on him, relentlessly. Just as the plagues and catastrophes were unleashed by Satan, so were Job's wife and these friends used the same way by Satan.

 

[Setyoufree]

Job was crying out to God in all of his suffering. He was crying out, "praying". He was seeking God's presence, for he was sorely missing his God.

Okay.

Look Job was honest, but he was honestly deceived. If he had been like the Jews during the time of Christ, Job would have probably died in his sin.

The Jews, after the resurrection, were no longer deceived, yet they took the self-righteous road and they died for their sin (unbelief).

Again, Job thought he was honestly blameless. Saul turned Paul also did as a Pharisee. And I too was also honest in my deception as a legalist.

God allowed Job to go through this terrible ordeal, not because He wanted to slap Job around, but because He wanted to open Job's eyes. Apparently there was no other way then the way God allowed to happen. Legalism, after all, is hard to break. If you don't believe that look at the unbelieving Jews during the time of Christ.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Job was crying out to God in all of his suffering. He was crying out, "praying". He was seeking God's presence, for he was sorely missing his God.

Okay.

Look Job was honest, but he was honestly deceived. If he had been like the Jews during the time of Christ, Job would have probably died in his sin.

The Jews, after the resurrection, were no longer deceived, yet they took the self-righteous road and they died for their sin (unbelief).

Again, Job thought he was honestly blameless. Saul turned Paul also did at a Pharisee. And I too was also honest in my deception as a legalist.

God allowed Job to go through this terrible ordeal, not because He wanted to slap Job around, but because He wanted to open Job's eyes. Apparently there was no other way then the way God allowed to happen. Legalism, after all, is hard to break. If you don't believe that look at the unbelieving Jews during the time of Christ.

Study very carefully God's own accounting of Job and how he was/is written in history. Study very carefully God's own description of Job and why God described Job as He did. IT is written in the very beginning of the book.

It is similar to how Jabez was described.

There is a reason that both of these men of God were recorded in God's Word the way they were.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

MoreCoffee,
you, who accuse another of fobbing off your question, are going to ignore my questions, take my answer to your question out of context, accuse me of not speaking the truth and further insinuating I’m working for Satan.

Let me give you a suggestion for the future. If you are so given to make such bold statements, you should have a much better understanding of what you are speaking of. You are the one that ignores answers and instead of presenting counterpoints to arguments engages in rhetoric for purpose of diversion.

You asked this question “why does God say this about Job?” then quoting Job 42:7-9. Setyoufree gave a rational answer that it was in regard to what Job stated in Job 42:2, that God was commending Job for in his repenting of sin, acknowledging God’s supremacy . Somehow you took that to be a fobbing off. Maybe you say that to everyone you disagree with.

In my post to the same question, I gave a similar answer as Setyoufree with different elaboration. The context is that Elihu just rebuked Job. God rebukes Job. Job acknowledges his sin and repents of it. Then God rebukes Job’s 3 friends, but not Elihu. God then commends Job.

About this I stated: God only commended Job after he REPENTED, for Job only spoke rightly after he acknowledge his sin. Job admits his sin of not speaking the truth; "Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know."

You take such exception to my use of the word only, but it was in the context of Job 42. It was added for emphasis. In context it means the commending God gave Job in verse 8 was only after the repenting in verse 6. Is this really that hard to follow?


Now I’ll give you a second chance to actually address the arguments I presented and answer my questions.

Do you think God was commending Job for saying he was innocent and not deserving of his suffering? Do you think Job was commended for charging God with injustice?

What kind of person accuses God of injustice, one that says he does not deserve the treatment that God bestowed on him? Is that a humble person or a proud person?

It is noteworthy that in the story of Job the only accusers are Satan and Job's unfaithful friends and they were condemned by God. Have you considered whose side you're speaking for?

And now where you need to be more concerned with the truth in what you write.

Scripture does not have Satan to be an accuser of Job. He did torment him though. You are correct Job’s 3 friends accuse Job, speaking in error. You neglect that Elihu speaking in the spirit does accuse Job of wrongdoing and God himself serves up the worst accusation.

 

[brinny]

Elihu, along with Job's wife and other friends, were being used, but not by God. What each of them were doing, in varying degrees were jeering at Job, persecuting him, and in essence "throwing stones" at him. Each of them were cold hearted, cruel, and only added to a seriously suffering Job, who was by that time, most likely, near death (and each one of them could clearly see his suffering and his waning strength), if God had not intervened Job might have just died, as their persecution of him increased. At the rate they were going, they would've probably spit on his corpse on the ash heap and reflected all that they accused him of on his grave stone.

NONE of them, (Job's wife, or any of these four friends) spoke on behalf of God. They were being used by Satan to jab at Job amidst his already suffering mind, body, and spirit.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Job gave God glory. He lived with all his heart before God. NONE of this would not have been said of Job if he was not "right" before God and if Job had an inner "self-righteousness" that God abhors.

God judges the heart. You say "Job lived with ALL his heart before God?" Do you have any scripture to back that up? As I have previously posted, multiple people have been called out in scripture as righteous. They all sinned and certainly needed guiding by God to a better relationship with him.

Job would have never been chosen by God to be place in this fiery furnace of affliction if he did not have right standing before God.

Where is that in scripture? God tests, and disciplines ALL of his flock for OUR betterment.

God does not need to purify the perfect.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Each of them were cold hearted, cruel, and only added to a seriously suffering Job, who was by that time, most likely, near death (and each one of them could clearly see his suffering and his waning strength), if God had not intervened Job might have just died, as their persecution of him increased. At the rate they were going, they would've probably spit on his corpse on the ash heap and reflected all that they accused him of on his grave stone.

What a load of melodramatic crap. God said Job was not to die.

Job 2:6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

Why is this SO important? If Job would have died, he would not have been able to repent of his sin.

God KNOWS ALL.
God knew Job would sin.
God wanted Job to learn from this experience.