A Pondering of the Peculiar

[Delphiki]

No. The existence of Christians was predicted in the Old Testament time. Muslims are not.

Yeah. It couldn't possibly be that Christians just adapted the Torah to their own religion in spite of it specifically saying you're not allowed to. No way at all.

 

[CabVet]

No. The existence of Christians was predicted in the Old Testament time. Muslims are not.

Have you ever read the Qur'an?

 

[anyathesword]

If you were sick, would you accept medical advice from someone if they never had any medical training?

In the same light, putting so much weight to a book written by many unknown authors 2000 years ago without a thorough analysis of it's historicity, is only setting oneself up for disappointment.

It has been analysed by many many people since a while.

Historically, it is a guide to historians to help place events and people and places in perspective.

This book has been scrutinized since a while now, don't you think?

Genesis chapter 1 especially!!!

 

[bhsmte]

It has been analysed by many many people since a while.

Historically, it is a guide to historians to help place events and people and places in perspective.

This book has been scrutinized since a while now, don't you think?

Genesis chapter 1 especially!!!

Indeed it has been scrutinized, but only fairly recently by more objective scholars and historians.

What have you learned from what scholars and historians state about the book?

 

[juvenissun]

Have you ever read the Qur'an?

Why? Since when we have the Koran? 2 A.D. ? 3 A.D. ?
We have Muslims, then we have the Koran.
We have the Bible, then we have Christians.

 

[Loudmouth]

Why? Since when we have the Koran? 2 A.D. ? 3 A.D. ?
We have Muslims, then we have the Koran.
We have the Bible, then we have Christians.

We have Reason, then we have Atheists.

 

[juvenissun]

Yeah. It couldn't possibly be that Christians just adapted the Torah to their own religion in spite of it specifically saying you're not allowed to. No way at all.

Well, you deny it first. Then I will not bother to explain it to you.

 

[juvenissun]

We have Reason, then we have Atheists.

Irrelevant.

 

[Sayre]

How many times do I have to tell you that I was raised a YEC? I was a practicing Christian till I was 30, and only accepted my atheism a few years ago.

Hey - I will be at a pc in about 12 hours it's too hard to post from a phone.

 

[46AND2]

Ok? You never told me that, but thanks for telling me that.

Actually, I have told you that at least twice before. I can dig up the posts, if you like, but it's not that important. Either way, it is a stereotypical assumption you make that atheists just don't read the Bible enough. Many of us probably read it more than you do.

The point of this question is to see how much knowledge you all have about the issue of sin.

Sin blinds us to seeing God, to finding evidence of His existance, to walk away from Him, to get confused. Sin affects us physically, mentally, emotionaly. Sin affects the world around us. Sin blinds our minds and eyes.

If sin can blind me to the point of missing the refutation of an old earth and evolution, then God is extremely unjust for allowing it to be that powerful, and then punishing us for that blindness.

ALL arguments I have seen against deep time and evolution are based on a complete lack of understanding of the evidence of those issues. If I saw a solid argument from somebody who actually understood the evidence, I'd be more likely to consider that I might be blind to the refutation.

Nobody has come close.

Study, study all you want both sides of any issues, but using other sources will never be as trustworthy as the Bible.

Of course, if you FIRST ASSUME that the Bible is inerrant. Rational people must be convinced of inerrancy first.

Science stemmed from Christian men, Christianity existed long before and the belief in God.

Anyway, why would you be a practicing Christian for 30 years and turn away from it so easily?

So easily? What do you know about my struggles with faith? I FOUGHT for a DOZEN YEARS to maintain my faith. I LIKED church. The best friends I've ever had were my Christian friends. My mother is a devout YEC. You think it's EASY to watch my mother believe I'm going to hell?

Whenever I feel like walking away from God because I feel very angry or something in my life just hardens my heart against God, I think of this:

O to grace how great a debtor
Daily I’m constrained to be!
Let Thy goodness, like a fetter,
Bind my wandering heart to Thee.
Prone to wander, Lord I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love,
Take my heart, O take and seal it,
Seal it for Thy Courts above.

Its a hymn "Come Thy Fount of Every Blessing" by Robert Robinson.

Just remember God never walks away from you, stay strong, and don't give up.

I've NEVER felt anger toward God. Even when I was begging him to show me the truth. I don't get angry in general. I am extremely even tempered. People who know me are amazed at times at how I can stay so even keeled.

You need to get this stereotype of all atheists just being angry with God out of your head. How can I be angry at something I don't believe exists?

 

[46AND2]

Hey - I will be at a pc in about 12 hours it's too hard to post from a phone.

I'm in that same boat quite often. I'm in no rush. Take your time.

 

[46AND2]

The unpleasantness brought on from cognitive dissonance, can indeed promote some creative explanations, to make the discomfort go away - at least temporarily.

Indeed, I remember the trap myself, quite readily.

We used to go on mission trips to Utah to "witness" to Mormons. I thought it was funny at the time the lengths that Mormons would go to to justify certain passages in the BoM. Until I realized I was doing the same thing.

 

[bhsmte]

Actually, I have told you that at least twice before. I can dig up the posts, if you like, but it's not that important. Either way, it is a stereotypical assumption you make that atheists just don't read the Bible enough. Many of us probably read it more than you do.



If sin can blind me to the point of missing the refutation of an old earth and evolution, then God is extremely unjust for allowing it to be that powerful, and then punishing us for that blindness.

ALL arguments I have seen against deep time and evolution are based on a complete lack of understanding of the evidence of those issues. If I saw a solid argument from somebody who actually understood the evidence, I'd be more likely to consider that I might be blind to the refutation.

Nobody has come close.



Of course, if you FIRST ASSUME that the Bible is inerrant. Rational people must be convinced of inerrancy first.



So easily? What do you know about my struggles with faith? I FOUGHT for a DOZEN YEARS to maintain my faith. I LIKED church. The best friends I've ever had were my Christian friends. My mother is a devout YEC. You think it's EASY to watch my mother believe I'm going to hell?





I've NEVER felt anger toward God. Even when I was begging him to show me the truth. I don't get angry in general. I am extremely even tempered. People who know me are amazed at times at how I can stay so even keeled.

You need to get this stereotype of all atheists just being angry with God out of your head. How can I be angry at something I don't believe exists?

It is so predictable, it is amusing to watch in action.

Many christians when engaging with a former christian will more than likely, default to these points, irregardless of what has been communicated to them.

-The person was never a true christian
-The person is mad at God
-The person wants to be free of the moral code of christianity
-The person has not made an effort, to connect with God
-The person is being led by evil

You can set your watch by it!!!

 

[46AND2]

As Sayre pointed out in one of her posts, it is highly likely Anya has never even thought about investigating the NT from a scholarly and historical standpoint.

I have interacted with very few YEC who demonstrated knowledge about mainstream scholarly investigation into the history of the Bible. Most of them find the sugarcoated arguments of Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel to be sufficient.

 

[46AND2]

Yes fleshly desires is one of them, sure.

I was heading in the direction of why you all don't want to believe in God, or to see evidence for Him.

Why do you assume we don't want to?

 

[46AND2]

No you don't understand.

If you look at your life from the outside. What kind of things are you involved in? What kind of thoughts do you have? What kind of secrets are in your life?
What kind of people do you hang out with?

Doing what the Bible says is wrong, hardens are hearts against God. Over time we are so blinded by sins that we can not see the love or goodness of God. Niether do we feel Him.

God is never hiding from us, WE try to hide from Him. We want to do what we want to do, the world looks appealing to us, so we head in this direction.

That's all there is too it. The only way you all will start to see God or to feel Him, is by changing your life and giving your heart to God.

I know fear is overtaking you and its what is stopping you too.

Happens to me too, don't worry.

The evidence is His Creation, the world, the animals, the humans, the planets, etc.

Fear of what? Heaven? Nothingness after death freaks me out WAY more than hell. What could I possibly fear that trumps how I feel about nothingness?

 

[bhsmte]

I have interacted with very few YEC who demonstrated knowledge about mainstream scholarly investigation into the history of the Bible. Most of them find the sugarcoated arguments of Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel to be sufficient.

Lee Strobel, what a piece of work. He was a pastor at a mega church I attended in the Midwest. His book, which he set out (supposedly) to be an objective analysis of christianity, only interviews christian apologists and for some reason, stays away from agnostics and atheists. The dude made a lot of money on his books, because he realized, there were many out there, who needed the one sided view point to feel better about their beliefs.

 

[46AND2]

Lee Strobel, what a piece of work. He was a pastor at a mega church I attended in the Midwest. His book, which he set out (supposedly) to be an objective analysis of christianity, only interviews christian apologists and for some reason, stays away from agnostics and atheists. The dude made a lot of money on his books, because he realized, there were many out there, who needed the one sided view point to feel better about their beliefs.

The most enlightening discussions I've had about the Bible, and the best arguments for it's veracity were made by people who had a thorough knowledge of mainstream scholarship.

Though I didn't agree with everything he said, Very Sincere's arguments were much more robust than anything I have ever seen from any YEC.

 

[Sayre]

I have interacted with very few YEC who demonstrated knowledge about mainstream scholarly investigation into the history of the Bible. Most of them find the sugarcoated arguments of Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel to be sufficient.

Ha this is ironic.

I read McDowell and strobel and it pushed me to atheism for years.

 

[Sayre]

Indeed, I remember the trap myself, quite readily.

We used to go on mission trips to Utah to "witness" to Mormons. I thought it was funny at the time the lengths that Mormons would go to to justify certain passages in the BoM. Until I realized I was doing the same thing.

Did you consider liberal Christianity, theism without the bible, or deism?