What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[GenemZ]

Where in the bible does the term "man" not refer to all mankind?

Elder... you keep concentrating on gnats... magnifying them into giants... and ignoring the camel. NOWHERE in the Bible were Gentile converts commanded to keep the Sabbath. Anyone living in the land of Israel had to agree to keep it, or choose to live elsewhere. But, NOWHERE in the Bible were Gentiles were ever told to keep the Sabbath. That's the kind of passage you need to find. You can't. Its no where to be found.


Here is what was demanded to Gentile converts to Christianity, as given by the Jewish council of the church in Jerusalem. Some of the highly religious types considered circumcision, but that was dropped.

Find where the Gentiles were told to keep the Sabbath.

Acts 15:27-29

Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what
we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you
with anything beyond the following requirements:You are to abstain from
food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals
and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.​

When are you going to be honest with yourself and start living by the Word of God? Rather than bypassing the Word of God?



The rules to the Gentile believers it did not say...

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the
meat of strangled animals, keep the Sabbath, and from sexual immorality.
You will do well to do these things.
​

You are doing a terrible thing of rationalizing by grabbing things out of context, and then plastering your own meaning over it. Its shameful and a disgrace.

You are distorting the Word of God. I would never want to have anything to do with your sect. Its not dealing with the Word of God in honesty. Its sneaky, and out to deceive the simple minded.

 

[GenemZ]

Circumcision was not given to all men was it?

Are you serious? You believe that the Bible states every man was to be circumcised? Was Noah? Enoch? Job? No. It was a sign to Israel. Just as the Sabbath was a sign!

Exodus 31:12-17


The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you.

Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. (bang, you're dead! You post on your computer on the Sabbath Day)

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’

It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
​

The Sabbath was to be between God and Israel! Not the Goyim!

It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;


​

That is why in the Millennium they will still have the Sabbath for the Jews living in the New Israel! Its to be a SIGN between the Lord and Israel FOREVER!

 

[Elder 111]

Elder... you keep concentrating on gnats... magnifying them into giants... and ignoring the camel. NOWHERE in the Bible were Gentile converts commanded to keep the Sabbath. Anyone living in the land of Israel had to agree to keep it, or choose to live elsewhere. But, NOWHERE in the Bible were Gentiles were ever told to keep the Sabbath. That's the kind of passage you need to find. You can't. Its no where to be found.

It is there we don't want to accept it. There are several reason to come to the conclusion that all Christians should keep the Sabbath.

1. When the early church met in Acts 15 at the directive of the Holt Spirit to tell the gentles what they were required to do as Christians the Sabbath was not mentioned as one of those things not to do. In fact they acknowledged that the Sabbath kept(act15:21) but did not say not to keep it. Why not if they wanted the gentles not to?
2. Jesus is or example and He kept it (Luke 4:16). If it was not for Christians He would have said so.
3. Sabbath was ordained from the beginning and Jesus declared it made for man. (Geneses 2:8 and mark 2:27).
4. The bible further declares that the Sabbath rest still remains. Heb. 4:
   8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Did Jesus give us another day?)
   
   9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
   10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (When did God rest if not on the Sabbath?)
   
   11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. ( We just would not accept the word of God)
   
5. Paul kept the Sabbath with the gentles. Act 13:
   42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
   43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
   44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
6. Why give a command to keep the Sabbath when it was already being kept?
7. Again all flesh will worship God on the Sabbath. Isa. 66:23

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Circumcision was not given to all men was it?
​

Are you serious? You believe that the Bible states every man was to be circumcised? Was Noah? Enoch? Job? No. It was a sign to Israel. Just as the Sabbath was a sign!

Exodus 31:12-17


The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you.

Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. (bang, you're dead! You post on your computer on the Sabbath Day)

For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’

It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
​

The Sabbath was to be between God and Israel! Not the Goyim!

It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;


​

That is why in the Millennium they will still have the Sabbath for the Jews living in the New Israel! Its to be a SIGN between the Lord and Israel FOREVER!

You need to read what I said again! Your prejudice is showing.

 

[VictorC]

Circumcision was not given to all men was it?

Just to those who were also given the sabbath. And those who weren't circumcised were prohibited from participating in the sabbaths in the annual cycles. Circumcision and sabbath have exactly the same jurisdiction (but 430 years difference in origin) over a given subset of humanity that we aren't a part of.

You never did answer my question regarding why you don't believe what God said said in the preamble of the Ten Commandments. Nor why you don't believe what God told Moses regarding who the sabbath was binding on in Exodus 31:13. It is clear you aren't going to, for Adventist theology is against the Law.

 

[VictorC]

It is there we don't want to accept it. There are several reason to come to the conclusion that all Christians should keep the Sabbath.

No, it isn't there. The evidence contrary to the Law has never been provided by you. Those of us who know the Law sufficiently to accept its limited jurisdiction and tenure know full well that you're blowing smoke with no substance. That same vacuum continues in the suppositions you listed below.

When the early church met in Acts 15 at the directive of the Holt Spirit to tell the gentles what they were required to do as Christians the Sabbath was not mentioned as one of those things not to do. In fact they acknowledged that the Sabbath kept(act15:21) but did not say not to keep it. Why not if they wanted the gentles not to?

Acts 15:12 tells us that Moses was read in the past tense every sabbath. Living in the past tense doesn't provide an argument for the present.

Jesus is or example and He kept it (Luke 4:16). If it was not for Christians He would have said so.

Jesus is our Redeemer and does not keep the sabbath. Your reliance on the past tense of key verbs ignores the central message of the Gospel!
Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
The fulness of time ordained by God has come, and living in the past as you do deviates from the Gospel.

Sabbath was ordained from the beginning and Jesus declared it made for man. (Geneses 2:8 and mark 2:27).

We had a whole thread (Why not Jesus?) where you showed that you simply can't tell how these two verses you cited demonstrate that the sabbath didn't exist until long after God's rest recorded in the Genesis record. Jesus plainly stated the sabbath was made for man, antithetical to God's rest that we have entered into.

The bible further declares that the Sabbath rest still remains. Heb. 4:
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Did Jesus give us another day?)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (When did God rest if not on the Sabbath?)

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. ( We just would not accept the word of God)

Yet from that 'Why not Jesus?' thread you showed you can't tell the difference between God's rest and the sabbath ordained during the life of Moses. You haven't accepted what Hebrews 4 says, for we who believe on Him have entered into His rest, and quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 for God's rest the sabbath didn't provide during its tenure.

Paul kept the Sabbath with the gentles. Act 13:
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

There isn't anything in the above about Paul or the Gentiles keeping the sabbath. Nothing. They chose that day to assemble together, and the record doesn't even acknowledge any of the rites necessary under the Law to keep the sabbath holy. I suppose it matches the Adventist mandate to keep the sabbath unholy, but you aren't going to find support for that anywhere in Scripture.

Why give a command to keep the Sabbath when it was already being kept?

It wasn't.
The sabbath was given only to the children of Israel, and the Gospel is rife with messages describing how we're accounted as adopted children of the Living God. It is God speaking as recorded by the Law that limits who was charged with the sabbath, and you've already shown that what God says doesn't matter to you.

Again all flesh will worship God on the Sabbath. Isa. 66:23

The same verse acknowledges the same passing of time by the new moon, which you conveniently ignore. Not to mention that you ignore that the verse is describing the passage of time covering continual worship, not limited to a cycle. The next verse shows the viewing of corpses that Adventist theology conveniently doesn't want anyone noticing, too. As a matter of fact, the way you reduce the whole Bible to a few sound bites in contextual ignorance shows us that your message is dependent on not reading the Bible.

That and how you simply can't answer basic questions presented to you is your whole reason for life. It is a sad departure from the Gospel that doesn't garner acceptance here among those who aren't as lazy as you wish they were.

 

[VictorC]

Where in the bible does the term "man" not refer to all mankind?

Your supposition attributing a scope past the Law's jurisdiction introduces an argument that Jesus is contradicting the Law.
He isn't.
You are.
The sabbath doesn't apply to God (which you also argue with a Genesis origin), space aliens, Gentiles living in Barbados, and -most importantly- God's adopted children. The permanent reality of God's rest has replaced the periodic shadow of the sabbath that wasn't even given to us.

 

[VictorC]

This does not make sense! The Holy Spirit leads me as a child of God and therefore I would not sin. Yet if I keep the Sabbath, which is part of the very command of the same Holy God, I sin? To do what God says is the same as not being led by His Holy Spirit?

Now you insist that the Holy Spirit is contradicting the Law's testimony.
That isn't incompetence anymore.
That's blasphemy.

 

[GenemZ]

It is there we don't want to accept it. There are several reason to come to the conclusion that all Christians should keep the Sabbath.

1. When the early church met in Acts 15 at the directive of the Holt Spirit to tell the gentles what they were required to do as Christians the Sabbath was not mentioned as one of those things not to do. In fact they acknowledged that the Sabbath kept(act15:21) but did not say not to keep it. Why not if they wanted the gentles not to?

Well, you just walked your dog and stepped in it. Earlier in this thread you tried to say that the Sabbath was for resting, and not for being a day to worship to learn God's Word. I said it was for that. Now? You just landed in my lap the Scriptural proof that it is so. That on the Sabbath we are to attend a place to be taught God's Word. here!

Acts 15:19-21

Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those
of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to
abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual
immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city
those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath
in the synagogues.”


​

You are not supposed to be lazing around your home on the Sabbath. If you are going to be consistent with what you claim? You should be in Church every Sabbath being taught God's Word. For that was what the Sabbath was for! A day for worshiping through learning His word and to cease from your own work.



Today, we are to be taught and to study God's Word daily.. Give us our daily bread. Jesus is the bread of life. We as Christians are to enter into God continuous rest in our inner being. Not some outward ritual which was an expression on a certain day.. which was only a shadow of the reality that was to come!

Acts 15:19-21

Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those
of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to
abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual
immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city
those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath
in the synagogues.”


​

Now, what does that mean about Moses being preached on the Sabbath? The Gentiles were apparently supposed to attend a Jewish synagogue to be taught God's Word? Which so happened to be on the Sabbath Day. For, that is when Jews all gathered in the synagogues to hear God's Word being proclaimed. Remember, the first church in Jerusalem was still stuck in Judaism and the Law. They were absolute nincompoops when it came to understanding this dispensation of grace.

Jesus is or example and He kept it (Luke 4:16). If it was not for Christians He would have said so.

Why should Jesus need to say so at that time? He had not even been to the Cross!

1 Corinthians 2:6-7

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among
the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the
rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we
declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden
and that God destined for our glory before time began.
​

Jesus was still living in the age of the Jews! The doctrine of the Church was to remain a mystery, hidden for the ages! Jesus knew that once the Church age began, that he would have Spirit filled prophets and Apostles to present the New Way of life to the Church age believers. So, why preach what you claimed to Jews who were still supposed to live under the Law? If the Jewish age was still intact? And, it was! For Jesus to say that the Sabbath was no longer to be observed would have gotten him stoned. Rightfully so! he would have never made it to the Cross to die for your sins.

Sabbath was ordained from the beginning and Jesus declared it made for man. (Geneses 2:8 and mark 2:27).

Until the Law of Moses was given to Israel? There was no Sabbath day to be observed by believers. Noah, not Abraham. We never read that Job kept a Sabbath day. Yet, we read that Job did sacrifice animals for sin. For, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for the Jews.

The bible further declares that the Sabbath rest still remains. Heb. 4:
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Did Jesus give us another day?)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (When did God rest if not on the Sabbath?)

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. ( We just would not accept the word of God)

That is sad to read what you write. For the Jewish Sabbath? They did not labour to enter into it!

They actually ceased from labour. Ever notice that wording before?

Christians must labor to enter into the rest of God. Why? We must FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH as the means enter into the rest that God has given for His Church.

Its a fight that requires the constant learning God's Truth. Truth to resist lies and distortions that are everywhere today, designed to confuse and keep Christians from becoming free souls. Only the Truth will make you free. The Sabbath of the Law only makes one lazy today.

A battle, I might add. You are losing. For, someone has suckered you into a false premise. One that you have decided to follow with a religious zeal. but, remember.. zeal without wisdom... Is what?... Well? Its simply dumb.

Instead of getting wisdom. We end up with a dumb wiz. A person who is trained to be a wiz at throwing out Scriptures in a distorted way to try to justify his stand. But, there is no wisdom. Only a dumb wiz.

Paul kept the Sabbath with the gentles. Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

That does not mean Paul kept the Sabbath.

That means Paul utilized the Sabbath, as a means to proclaim the Gospel to those whom he knew should bee seeking God on that day. That was the day when men gathered to hear God's Word in the synagogues.

Paul said.. "To the Jew first, then the Gentiles." Paul always approached the Jews first in the beginning of his ministry. Jews met in synagogues on the Sabbath. So? That was where Paul sought to proclaim the Gospel by means of reading the Torah to show Jews Christ in the prophets.


Paul did not have to keep the Sabbath. For, he was no longer a Jew! He had become a New Creation in Christ! And, he knew it!

 

[Elder 111]

Just to those who were also given the sabbath. And those who weren't circumcised were prohibited from participating in the sabbaths in the annual cycles. Circumcision and sabbath have exactly the same jurisdiction (but 430 years difference in origin) over a given subset of humanity that we aren't a part of.

You never did answer my question regarding why you don't believe what God said said in the preamble of the Ten Commandments. Nor why you don't believe what God told Moses regarding who the sabbath was binding on in Exodus 31:13. It is clear you aren't going to, for Adventist theology is against the Law.

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
If the Lord has not sanctify you, you don't have worry about the Sabbath!

 

[Elder 111]

Now you insist that the Holy Spirit is contradicting the Law's testimony.
That isn't incompetence anymore.
That's blasphemy.

Certainly not on my part.

 

[Elder 111]

I am being constantly accused here. I hope and pray that those who are sincerely searching for truth has seen that I have presented truth, and are able to live the truth.

 

[from scratch]

I am being constantly accused here. I hope and pray that those who are sincerely searching for truth has seen that I have presented truth, and are able to live the truth.

What are you being accused of doing? Promoting obligation of Christians to observe the law? Then yes! Are you being accused of doing evil? I think that could be a matter of opinion. Are you being accused of denying the truth? I think that could also be a matter of opinion. You're certainly not accepting the full New Covenant or you're doing a great job of playing the devil's advocate for the purpose of discussion. Some how I don't really buy that. Are you refusing to answer question in a forthright manner? Probably in the opinion of many.

I'm merely making suggestions since you won't give any details. I believe you're playing the personal approach to debate and not debating the subject very much.

 

[GenemZ]

I am being constantly accused here. I hope and pray that those who are sincerely searching for truth has seen that I have presented truth, and are able to live the truth.

Not accused. Exposed.

But, you remain oblivious.

It takes a certain type to get off the road and into what you want to cling to. For, another who suffers the same type of religious desire, it would be like having a statue of Mary on your mantle. Again..Oblivious. Unable to comprehend what the true issue is.

You're not being accused. Exposed. But, you have been covered with spiritual Novocaine. Oblivious.

We are not interested in all you know about the Sabbath. Because you ignore the "why" for the Sabbath.

All you do is close your eyes. Pick a verse out of your hat. Then, you turn it into a rabbit.

I am at the point where you are no longer look like someone able to comprehend the facts, because a supernatural power keeps putting its hands over you eyes making you unable to see.

Be happy. Keep your Sabbaths for the rest of your life. Then die like we all must. But, we all are not going to displease the Lord when evaluated. Those who produce wood, hay, and stubble (dead works) will be ashamed of themselves to finally perceive the Lord, and to know what they had been warned about by concerned believers was true.

Just make sure you stop using your computer to post on the Sabbath. No one likes a hypocrite. No one likes an excuse maker. Using your computer on the Sabbath is nothing like plucking corn because you have to eat. You should also go to the bathroom and wash your hands on the Sabbath. But? Post on your computer? I call that being a phoney. But, then again... anyone who keeps the Sabbath Day after coming to Christ is a phoney form of spirituality. Its really the flesh following the Law.


bye

 

[from scratch]

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
If the Lord has not sanctify you, you don't have worry about the Sabbath!

Speak to who?

 

[VictorC]

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
If the Lord has not sanctify you, you don't have worry about the Sabbath!

Who does this passage address?
If you remain accounted as a child of Israel (which doesn't include the Gentiles of Barbados estranged apart from God during the tenure of the old covenant), then you aren't an adopted child of God. You may as well announce to the world that you aren't saved, if this passage is supposed to bolster your argument somehow.

An argument that doesn't address my post in the slightest.
A week has gone by, and you still can't answer my questions.

 

[VictorC]

Certainly not on my part.

In another thread I already documented where Ellen White blasphemed the Holy Ghost. I would like to urge you not to adopt her example - but it is too late for that. At the very least an argument based on pitting the Holy Ghost against the Word He inspired exposes desperation on your part.

 

[VictorC]

I am being constantly accused here. I hope and pray that those who are sincerely searching for truth has seen that I have presented truth, and are able to live the truth.

Not accused, but exposed as the convenient poster child of Adventism's premise of 'old-covenant christianity', which is a oxymoron that doesn't exist outside of Ellen White's heresies.

 

[VictorC]

Speak to who?

Not us, but this continues to elude Elder111.

 

[GenemZ]

Not accused, but exposed as the convenient poster child of Adventism's premise of 'old-covenant christianity', which is a oxymoron that doesn't exist outside of Ellen White's heresies.

Its like someone trying to sell you kosher pork.