Who has read the Book of Mormon?

[Tony Kara]

100 BC...I'm sorry, what exactly is that compared to when the prophets such as Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and the others lived and wrote? How many years is that in between? Those are big gaps. Thanks for reiterating what I already said. The manuscripts are from the 100s BC. We have zero original manuscripts handwritten by the prophets themselves. We do not have their exact words. Not copies of copies of copies like these manuscripts.

Believing the Book of Mormon is true is about faith and honestly, so is the Bible. Heck, Atheists believe in the Bible but not in a spiritual way. They believe in the evidences and history but not the God factor. Even with evidences and manuscripts, albeit we do not have the originals, these things are absolutely worthless for salvation. What is it that no evidence will ever prove to anyone? That Jesus is the Son of God. This is only known by the Holy Ghost.

Thanks.for.bringing.Abraham and Moses into the conversation. You also reintroduced original manuscripts into the conversation. Using the standards you set for biblical scripture, how do you authenticate the validity of the "Pearl of Great Price"?

 

[Tony Kara]

legacyjb, what is your stance?

If you say I need to read and believe in your mormon book, you've betrayed God. That isn't possible though. Nobody is that ignorant.

Not cool.
No reason or cause for personal attacks.

 

[southcountry]

Excuse you but I have NOT betrayed God. I am faithful to Him in all things. I will answer you again only after you read the Book of Mormon and pray to God asking if it's true with an open heart.

Why just the Book of Mormon? Why not research the religion and the history, the Book of Abraham, and so on, compare with the Bible, and THEN ask if its true?

You have said with your own words that it does not matter what verses people post from the bible showing contradiction.


You have intentionally rigged the game to receive what your own heart desires.

 

[LegacyJB]

Why just the Book of Mormon? Why not research the religion and the history, the Book of Abraham, and so on, compare with the Bible, and THEN ask if its true?

You have said with your own words that it does not matter what verses people post from the bible showing contradiction.


You have intentionally rigged the game to receive what your own heart desires.

Not quite what I've said since I don't believe there are any contradictions between the Book of Mormon and Bible.

As already explained, if the Book of Mormon is true so is everything that follows.

 

[Tony Kara]

... if the Book of Mormon is true so is everything that follows.

Why? Do you mean to say that there are Quaker looking people living on the moon?

 

[southcountry]

Not quite what I've said since I don't believe there are any contradictions between the Book of Mormon and Bible.

As already explained, if the Book of Mormon is true so is everything that follows.

If you are basing that on a "feeling" you get, then I would say to be careful of the source. Would God allow such a thing to happen? If you have turned a blind eye to his word, have not dwelt on what Jesus taught in the NT, then you can set yourself up for some other entity to give you an answer.

You can ask an Ouija board questions, and it will give you answers, its not a joke. But the source of that information is not from God but rather an occult nature.

You have learned here in this thread that Jesus and the apostles taught that the fashion of this world will pass away, that marriage of man and woman is an earthly concept. A "familiar spirit" which works within your religion has taught you to bypass these verses with contrived excuses. It is this same "familiar spirit" which is working in the entire world at this present time to worship man as god of himself. It is an occult theme and it is the ultimate blasphemy against the creator of the universe and all heavens.

There is a reason one should be warned about religions such as this. If you look at the source, Joseph Smith, and what he was dabbling with one would be wise to seek out knowledge first instead of opening ones self up to the thing that should not be.......

 

[RevelationTestament]

If you are basing that on a "feeling" you get, then I would say to be careful of the source. Would God allow such a thing to happen? If you have turned a blind eye to his word, have not dwelt on what Jesus taught in the NT, then you can set yourself up for some other entity to give you an answer.

You can ask an Ouija board questions, and it will give you answers, its not a joke. But the source of that information is not from God but rather an occult nature.

You have learned here in this thread that Jesus and the apostles taught that the fashion of this world will pass away, that marriage of man and woman is an earthly concept. A "familiar spirit" which works within your religion has taught you to bypass these verses with contrived excuses. It is this same "familiar spirit" which is working in the entire world at this present time to worship man as god of himself. It is an occult theme and it is the ultimate blasphemy against the creator of the universe and all heavens.

There is a reason one should be warned about religions such as this. If you look at the source, Joseph Smith, and what he was dabbling with one would be wise to seek out knowledge first instead of opening ones self up to the thing that should not be.......

Enough with the fear mongering. There are lots of churches on the "traditional orthodox" side of the aisle with "familiar spirits." I've been to churches where they ramble on unintelligibly claiming to be "speaking in tongues." The Bible reveals this gift was given so that those coming to hear the gospel could hear it in their tongue.... not so some spirit could come invade us with unintelligible blatherings. Some interpretations of the Bible I would put right up there with evil. Men have been easily seduced with every wind of doctrine. So it seems rather hypocritical for them to be pointing the finger at Joseph Smith.
I am much more concerned about the minister passing the collection plate and collecting a salary than Joseph Smith who taught us not to preach for money.

 

[southcountry]

Enough with the fear mongering. There are lots of churches on the "traditional orthodox" side of the aisle with "familiar spirits." I've been to churches where they ramble on unintelligibly claiming to be "speaking in tongues." The Bible reveals this gift was given so that those coming to hear the gospel could hear it in their tongue.... not so some spirit could come invade us with unintelligible blatherings. Some interpretations of the Bible I would put right up there with evil. Men have been easily seduced with every wind of doctrine. So it seems rather hypocritical for them to be pointing the finger at Joseph Smith.
I am much more concerned about the minister passing the collection plate and collecting a salary than Joseph Smith who taught us not to preach for money.

Does anyone even take these words seriously?

Deuteronomy 18
9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

I know, I know..... Whats a little Kundalini Yoga or New Age huh?

 

[RevelationTestament]

Does anyone even take these words seriously?

Deuteronomy 18
9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

I know, I know..... Whats a little Kundalini Yoga or New Age huh?

Are you saying Joseph Smith did Yoga?
The urim and thummim, "seer stones", weren't anything occult. The Lord gave them to the ancient Jews so they could see things of the Lord - they were used to determine lineages etc.

 

[LegacyJB]

If you are basing that on a "feeling" you get, then I would say to be careful of the source. Would God allow such a thing to happen? If you have turned a blind eye to his word, have not dwelt on what Jesus taught in the NT, then you can set yourself up for some other entity to give you an answer.

We don't believe answers don't come from feelings, they come from God. The feelings of peace, love, joy, etc are the fruits of the Spirit.

You have learned here in this thread that Jesus and the apostles taught that the fashion of this world will pass away, that marriage of man and woman is an earthly concept. A "familiar spirit" which works within your religion has taught you to bypass these verses with contrived excuses. It is this same "familiar spirit" which is working in the entire world at this present time to worship man as god of himself. It is an occult theme and it is the ultimate blasphemy against the creator of the universe and all heavens.

I have to make a correction about something you said. The teaching of marriage being dissolved at death comes from man, not Christ and the Apostles. The Savior and the 12 taught the eternal nature of families. I don't bypass anything. You and others act like we don't read the Bible or understand it. That's a very poor assumption to make. I'm grateful that Christ allows families to be eternal under the priesthood. I worship God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ.

There is a reason one should be warned about religions such as this. If you look at the source, Joseph Smith, and what he was dabbling with one would be wise to seek out knowledge first instead of opening ones self up to the thing that should not be.......

Seek knowledge from...what..anti-Mormon literature? Anti-Mormon things are just that, anti-. They have no intention on inviting the Spirit of God into anyone's lives. I have received a witness from God through the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true and if God the Father and Jesus Christ were standing right beside me I would say "the Book of Mormon is true" out loud with nothing wavering. I have nothing but confidence my God and His Christ. Christ is the way to eternal life. Not just on an individual basis but also for the eternal nature of families.

 

[LegacyJB]

Enough with the fear mongering. There are lots of churches on the "traditional orthodox" side of the aisle with "familiar spirits." I've been to churches where they ramble on unintelligibly claiming to be "speaking in tongues." The Bible reveals this gift was given so that those coming to hear the gospel could hear it in their tongue.... not so some spirit could come invade us with unintelligible blatherings. Some interpretations of the Bible I would put right up there with evil. Men have been easily seduced with every wind of doctrine. So it seems rather hypocritical for them to be pointing the finger at Joseph Smith.
I am much more concerned about the minister passing the collection plate and collecting a salary than Joseph Smith who taught us not to preach for money.

I've seen this as well. In fact, Paul speaks very specifically on this subject. His counsel is if we have something to say in another tongue and we know others won't understand it we might as well just keep quiet. It's in 1 Corinthians 14.

I remember a companion on the mission telling me about an area he was previously in with a Samoan companion. They had agreed to attend a Christian church with an investigator. It was a "I'll go to your church if you come to mine" deal. During the service everyone started rolling in the isles and making what seemed to be random noises talking in some random language. His Samoan companion told him "We need to leave. These people are speaking in Samoan and everything they're saying is nothing but pure evil from Satan. I can feel the influence Satan has over this church."
I'm not trying to talk down about anyone who claims to have the gift of tongues but this was a real thing that happened in a Presbyterian church.

 

[southcountry]

Are you saying Joseph Smith did Yoga?
The urim and thummim, "seer stones", weren't anything occult. The Lord gave them to the ancient Jews so they could see things of the Lord - they were used to determine lineages etc.

Im saying Joseph Smith was a diviner. If you use rocks and talisman to find hidden objects, that is called divination. I believe this information comes from the Prince of the Power of the Air.

Ephesians 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Concerning the Urim and Thummim, God allowed them to do other things in order to teach them lessons. Such as killing and taking more than one wife.

But I think we all know how God feels about any type of killing, and divining, and taking wives.

 

[LegacyJB]

Are you saying Joseph Smith did Yoga?

So that's how he was in such great shape!

 

[southcountry]

I have to make a correction about something you said. The teaching of marriage being dissolved at death comes from man, not Christ and the Apostles. The Savior and the 12 taught the eternal nature of families. I don't bypass anything. You and others act like we don't read the Bible or understand it. That's a very poor assumption to make. I'm grateful that Christ allows families to be eternal under the priesthood. I worship God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Actually I believe you have been shown via scripture that Jesus and the Apostles taught differently. That you want to believe it will be all about "you and your family" in heaven is solely a fact within your own mind, not what the bible states.

Seek knowledge from...what..anti-Mormon literature? Anti-Mormon things are just that, anti-. They have no intention on inviting the Spirit of God into anyone's lives. I have received a witness from God through the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true and if God the Father and Jesus Christ were standing right beside me I would say "the Book of Mormon is true" out loud with nothing wavering. I have nothing but confidence my God and His Christ. Christ is the way to eternal life. Not just on an individual basis but also for the eternal nature of families.

And here is where you have backed yourself into a corner, you have to deny evidence in order to manifest works of your own heart via mantra ad nauseaum.

 

[LegacyJB]

But I think we all know how God feels about any type of killing, and divining, and taking wives.

Oh of course. God has never permitted any type of killing. Any type. Not Lot's wife, not those in Sodom and Gomorrah, not Er, the firstborn of the Egyptians, never used wars, or anything.

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

And of course, God has certainly never given anyone multiple wives, not even David. He never gave David someone else's wife/wives. Never.

2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

 

[southcountry]

Oh of course. God has never permitted any type of killing. Any type. Not Lot's wife, not those in Sodom and Gomorrah, not Er, the firstborn of the Egyptians, never used wars, or anything.

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

1 Samuel 15:2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

And of course, God has certainly never given anyone multiple wives, not even David. He never gave David someone else's wife/wives. Never.

2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

What does Jesus say about that?

You do realize that they were allowed to do these things to arrive at the outcome that it was impossible to gain eternal life via that law?

Hebrews 7
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

The WORD was actually available to men before the law. But a arrogant and stubborn people demanded the LAW. And they got their stiff necks broken.

Some still want the LAW and not the WORD.

 

[LegacyJB]

Actually I believe you have been shown via scripture that Jesus and the Apostles taught differently. That you want to believe it will be all about "you and your family" in heaven is solely a fact within your own mind, not what the bible states.



And here is where you have backed yourself into a corner, you have to deny evidence in order to manifest works of your own heart via mantra ad nauseaum.

I've only been shown people's interpretation of the Bible, not what the Bible actually teaches. The Bible teaches God intends for families to be eternal. It's not just something I want, it's doctrine from God. I don't believe it's all about me and my family so don't even try to make it sound that way. I know it's all about God and His Son Jesus Christ. I simply understand the truthfulness of what God has revealed: families are forever. The only person who wants to divide families whether it be during this life or at death is Lucifer, even Satan.

I'm in no corner. I can certainly provide evidence for the Book of Mormon but that's useless as is evidence for the Bible. Sure, these evidences exist but there will never be any evidence that can physically prove Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that salvation comes through Him. That His gospel has been restored. The testimony of these things comes by the Holy Ghost and no other way. Could you say you would even believe in the Bible if evidence was never found? I could.

 

[southcountry]

I've only been shown people's interpretation of the Bible, not what the Bible actually teaches.. The Bible teaches God intends for families to be eternal. It's not just something I want, it's doctrine from God I don't believe it's all about me and my family so don't even try to make it sound that way. I know it's all about God and His Son Jesus Christ. I simply understand the truthfulness of what God has revealed: families are forever. The only person who wants to divide families whether it be during this life or at death is Lucifer, even Satan.

I'm in no corner. I can certainly provide evidence for the Book of Mormon but that's useless as is evidence for the Bible. Sure, these evidences exist but there will never be any evidence that can physically prove Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that salvation comes through Him. That His gospel has been restored. The testimony of these things comes by the Holy Ghost and no other way. Could you say you would even believe in the Bible if evidence was never found? I could.

Scripture that shows this was taught please.

 

[LegacyJB]

What does Jesus say about that?

You do realize that they were allowed to do these things to arrive at the outcome that it was impossible to gain eternal life via that law?

Hebrews 7
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

The WORD was actually available to men before the law. But a arrogant and stubborn people demanded the LAW. And they got their stiff necks broken.

Some still want the LAW and not the WORD.

Oh, so now it's ok to think God would allow these things to happen. But it can only happen in the Bible and not in our time, right? It isn't possible for God to do these things again is it? Is anything impossible for God?

You might want to take another look by the way. Not everything in the Old Testament was under the law of Moses. Explain what these things had to do with that. Did the law of Moses say "David, you must get wives that belong to someone else." "Children of Israel, you must kill men, women, children, and infants who aren't part of you."

I take the law of God which comes by Him through revelation.

 

[drstevej]

I take the law of God which comes by Him through revelation.

Including the revelations of Warren Jeffs?

New revelation from Warren Jeffs declares destruction of Salt Lake

If not why do you reject his revelation?