Who has read the Book of Mormon?

[BigDaddy4]

That certainly is not consistent with the First Vision of Mormonism.

Which of the many versions??

 

[LegacyJB]

Which of the many versions??

I love the different versions. If you were to look up the different versions of the First Vision you would notice the Prophet was targeting different people. Each version studied helps a person gain a better understanding of the First Vision when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I love the different versions. If you were to look up the different versions of the First Vision you would notice the Prophet was targeting different people. Each version studied helps a person gain a better understanding of the First Vision when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith.

I have looked up and read the many versions. At least 9 by my count. And it appears young Smith couldn't make up his mind on several matters, including whether or not it was "God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith" and exact dates of this supposed vision, and left out other important details like the mysterious "evil power" that overcame him.

Different audiences indeed. ROFLMAO!!!

 

[southcountry]

The Bible doesn't say how all of the martyred apostles were killed. Wouldn't this be important? I mean hey, they're the ancient Apostles. Jesus told Peter, James, and John to declare what they saw at the mount where Moses and Elias were after He was resurrected and we don't have any record of that. Seriously, no record of something Jesus directly commanded them to do. Is that not important?

Because you can't find anything wrong with the verses I posted from the Book of Mormon you resort to what you think isn't in the book. Question 1: not important because it has nothing to do with salvation. Question 2: doesn't have an exact description but Lehi saw the throne. Question 3: please read the Book of Mormon. It's there.

You mentioned Revelation. In the Book of Mormon there are chapters consisting of Nephi conversing with an angel who tells Nephi of things to come. Toward the end it states the angel showed Nephi many other things but he was forbidden to write them because the angel would later reveal those forbidden things to John and John would write them. The visions in Revelation were also seen by Nephi. This means anything John saw, Nephi saw. After all, it was the same angel.

All of gods sealed are important. But the testament also includes details of the accuser, and what is to happen to him and this material world. The referances are scattered from one end of the bible to the other. I could break it down to you but I dont want to be accused of derailing your thread.

This information is important the closer we get to the time of deception. Knowledge shall be increased.

Why do you think Ezekiel and Johns visions are not important? They hold key information in understanding why Jesus said some of the things he did.

Could you give me the location in Lehi where he saw the throne? I would like to comare to Ezekiel and Johns visions which are congruent with one another.

The only thing pertaining to the anti-christ in Joseph Smiths writing was about the Abomination of Desolation, I think in JS MAtthew,and that version is not congruent with the biblical description.

 

[LegacyJB]

All of gods sealed are important. But the testament also includes details of the accuser, and what is to happen to him and this material world. The referances are scattered from one end of the bible to the other. I could break it down to you but I dont want to be accused of derailing your thread.

This information is important the closer we get to the time of deception. Knowledge shall be increased.

Why do you think Ezekiel and Johns visions are not important? They hold key information in understanding why Jesus said some of the things he did.

Could you give me the location in Lehi where he saw the throne? I would like to comare to Ezekiel and Johns visions which are congruent with one another.

The only thing pertaining to the anti-christ in Joseph Smiths writing was about the Abomination of Desolation, I think in JS MAtthew,and that version is not congruent with the biblical description.

Not being important regarding salvation itself. What they said was important, it's the fact that what God's throne looks like has nothing to do with salvation.

The Book of Mormon isn't Joseph Smith's writing nor is the Pearl of Great Price. They are translations writings that already existed.

 

[southcountry]

Not being important regarding salvation itself. What they said was important, it's the fact that what God's throne looks like has nothing to do with salvation.

The Book of Mormon isn't Joseph Smith's writing nor is the Pearl of Great Price. They are translations writings that already existed.

Im sorry you feel that way. It is information that allows one to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I will give you an example.

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

These two verses go together, yet they leave you looking for more....And you can find that information within the same covers.

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.



Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


This information was given to those in the last days so they shall not be deceived. I can explain all of them, but will not get into that detail unless you want to PM.

I am looking for information in the BoM that would at least add more pieces or verify this information.

I have found in the JS translation Matthew 1 the abomination which maketh desolate.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, then you shall stand in the holy place; whoso readeth let him understand.


This is not what Jesus or Daniel said. The meaning is the complete opposite.


Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mark 13:14


But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 

[Moodshadow]

I love the different versions. If you were to look up the different versions of the First Vision you would notice the Prophet was targeting different people. Each version studied helps a person gain a better understanding of the First Vision when God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith.

Do you love it, too, that in the introduction to the original Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith said this...

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

...and yet in subsequent editions those "most perfect" words have been changed again and again? What is your own definition of the word "perfect?"

 

[LegacyJB]

I have looked up and read the many versions. At least 9 by my count. And it appears young Smith couldn't make up his mind on several matters, including whether or not it was "God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith" and exact dates of this supposed vision, and left out other important details like the mysterious "evil power" that overcame him.

Different audiences indeed. ROFLMAO!!!

Not every account is directly from the prophet. Some come from people he told and they retold it the best they could remember. I do know the First Vision happened. Joseph Smith saw God and the Son.

 

[LegacyJB]

Do you love it, too, that in the introduction to the original Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith said this...

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

...and yet in subsequent editions those "most perfect" words have been changed again and again? What is your own definition of the word "perfect?"

Perfect? You must be seeing things. Where does it say about anything being perfect? Being most correct and perfect aren't the same. I certainly agree it's the most correct book. It was translated by the power of God. While the original authors, the prophets and apostles, wrote purely by the Spirit, the translators of their writings translated through their personal knowledge, not the Spirit.

It's so funny that you guys are going as far as you can in an attempt to persuade me to lose faith. You realize my faith in Jesus Christ is stronger than your criticisms, right? My faith in Him keeps me steadfast in the gospel. Now, back to the verses I posted.

 

[Jake255]

Perfect? You must be seeing things. Where does it say about anything being perfect? Being most correct and perfect aren't the same. I certainly agree it's the most correct book. It was translated by the power of God. While the original authors, the prophets and apostles, wrote purely by the Spirit, the translators of their writings translated through their personal knowledge, not the Spirit.
.

Really?

I think the truth has come out what you really believe and I hope the reader really takes note here.

You place the bom up, above and over the Bible as more authoritative.

 

[LegacyJB]

Im sorry you feel that way. It is information that allows one to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I will give you an example.

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

These two verses go together, yet they leave you looking for more....And you can find that information within the same covers.

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.



Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


This information was given to those in the last days so they shall not be deceived. I can explain all of them, but will not get into that detail unless you want to PM.

I am looking for information in the BoM that would at least add more pieces or verify this information.

I have found in the JS translation Matthew 1 the abomination which maketh desolate.

12 When you, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, then you shall stand in the holy place; whoso readeth let him understand.


This is not what Jesus or Daniel said. The meaning is the complete opposite.


Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mark 13:14


But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Hooray for copy and paste. You can put a bunch of verses. Yay for you! Let's throw you a party. D Please understand I don't usually take critics of the church seriously.

Words of the prophets and apostles, and especially the Savior, are important but not everything prophet and apostles say refer to salvation. "This, this, that, and that is going to happen." Great. These things are cool. I believe in all of the Bible so it's pointless, and quite honestly pathetic, to act as if I don't. I know these things will happen.

 

[southcountry]

Hooray for copy and paste. You can put a bunch of verses. Yay for you! Let's throw you a party. D Please understand I don't usually take critics of the church seriously.

Words of the prophets and apostles, and especially the Savior, are important but not everything prophet and apostles say refer to salvation. "This, this, that, and that is going to happen." Great. These things are cool. I believe in all of the Bible so it's pointless, and quite honestly pathetic, to act as if I don't. I know these things will happen.

Not sure why you are being so snide.

I have done more than copy and paste. I have shown you how the bible fits together and that the information is congruent. Im not talking about "chiasmus". Im talking about actual substance.

I think any reader would study those verses and conclude that they are referencing the destruction of creation. This is the kind of information lacking in the BoM. From what I read, it is dry of anything beyond the basic bible 101 which anyone can plagarize to make a story.

Since you have admitted to knowing the BoM so well, I have kindly asked you to show me any scripture from it that would be considered congruent to verses like the ones I posted. You have provided nothing. If it did indeed contain such, perhaps you should think of this as an opportunity to teach, as I have an open mind and its always possible to point me in the right direction.

Also, you never commented on the verse from JS Matthew when compared to the biblical verses.

 

[donfish06]

When I ask this question I don't mean just flip through a few pages nor do I mean get an overview on it from others. Who has actually read it with an unbiased and open heart? Anyone who has truly read it would know it is true.

Do you agree or disagree with these verses? No sidestepping like some people tend to do, focus on these verses. Do they testify of truth or do they not?

Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.


33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.[/I]

These verses clearly say that you have to "earn" God's grace. "IF you are perfect THEN" that is a stipulation. God's grace is a gift. You don't earn gifts they are freely given.


As for the others you listed:

It's not what you have in common with the Bible that is false doctrine, it is what isn't in common. Even the Torah has verses that Christians would agree with. It doesn't vindicate the entire book.

 

[Ran77]

Hooray for copy and paste. You can put a bunch of verses. Yay for you! Let's throw you a party. D Please understand I don't usually take critics of the church seriously.

Words of the prophets and apostles, and especially the Savior, are important but not everything prophet and apostles say refer to salvation. "This, this, that, and that is going to happen." Great. These things are cool. I believe in all of the Bible so it's pointless, and quite honestly pathetic, to act as if I don't. I know these things will happen.

Offered as friendly advice, posts like this will get you in trouble.


.

 

[LegacyJB]

These verses clearly say that you have to "earn" God's grace. "IF you are perfect THEN" that is a stipulation. God's grace is a gift. You don't earn gifts they are freely given.


As for the others you listed:

It's not what you have in common with the Bible that is false doctrine, it is what isn't in common. Even the Torah has verses that Christians would agree with. It doesn't vindicate the entire book.

The grace of God is freely given to the repentant. Do you believe Jesus came to save us in or from our sins?

 

[LegacyJB]

These verses clearly say that you have to "earn" God's grace. "IF you are perfect THEN" that is a stipulation. God's grace is a gift. You don't earn gifts they are freely given.


As for the others you listed:

It's not what you have in common with the Bible that is false doctrine, it is what isn't in common. Even the Torah has verses that Christians would agree with. It doesn't vindicate the entire book.

As far as the Torah goes, you realize that is Genesis through Deuteronomy right? So you don't believe in all of what those books say? They're from Moses.

 

[LegacyJB]

Not sure why you are being so snide.

I have done more than copy and paste. I have shown you how the bible fits together and that the information is congruent. Im not talking about "chiasmus". Im talking about actual substance.

I think any reader would study those verses and conclude that they are referencing the destruction of creation. This is the kind of information lacking in the BoM. From what I read, it is dry of anything beyond the basic bible 101 which anyone can plagarize to make a story.

Since you have admitted to knowing the BoM so well, I have kindly asked you to show me any scripture from it that would be considered congruent to verses like the ones I posted. You have provided nothing. If it did indeed contain such, perhaps you should think of this as an opportunity to teach, as I have an open mind and its always possible to point me in the right direction.

Also, you never commented on the verse from JS Matthew when compared to the biblical verses.

I just had to do that at least once.

Anyway, what these prophets and apostles said were great and true. You're accusing the Book of Mormon of being not true because there are some things it doesn't mention. God gives certain revelations to certain prophets. I don't dismiss Moses being a prophet because he didn't build an ark. I don't dismiss Isaiah as a prophet because he doesn't say anything about Elijah coming in the last days to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and vice versa. The prophets in the Book of Mormon, who lived from 600 BC - 421 AD, with the exception of the people in Ether, received what the Holy Ghost gave from the Father. As Nephi says, he only wrote things that would be valuable to the spirits of men (mankind). Then again he also saw everything that's in Revelation. Why God didn't have the prophets to write all of those things down we'll never know. The Lord says His ways are not our ways and His thoughts aren't our thoughts.

As far as the JST goes, that's definitely in harmony with what Daniel says. The sanctuary of strength can be seen as Jerusalem since the entire city was considered a sanctuary, the holy land. Was Jerusalem not destroyed?

 

[donfish06]

As far as the Torah goes, you realize that is Genesis through Deuteronomy right? So you don't believe in all of what those books say? They're from Moses.

Sorry, I meant the Quran! lol big mistake

 

[Jake255]

Characteristics of False Prophets

1. An inaccurate view of God or the introduction of other gods.
2. Inaccurate predictions concerning future events.

-Deuteronomy 18:20-22 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken..."
False prophecies

• Joseph Smith said that six foot men, dressed like Quakers, live on the moon and live to be 1000 years old. (The Young Woman's Journal,Vol 3,p263)
• Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus would return by 1891 (History of the Church,Vol.2,p182)
• -Matthew 24:35-36 "Heaven and earth shall pass away...But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." - Jesus says that no man would know when the end of the world would come, why would He reveal it then to Joseph Smith. Secondly, it didn't happen.
• Brigham Young claimed that men inhabit the sun. (Journal of Discourses, Vol.13, p.271, 10/24/1870)
• Brigham Young also prophesied that the Civil War would not free the slaves.(Journal of Discourses, Vol.10, p.250, 10/6/1863)

 

[LegacyJB]

Sorry, I meant the Quran! lol big mistake

K lol although I don't get how you mixed those 2 up haha