how can you be sure that the devil is evil and the bible is correct?

[Ken-1122]

In that particular war, women and children and animals and belongings should ALL be destroyed. This is only applied to that particular war. God clearly says, other wars are not like that.

What about Saul and Joshua? Their wars were like that! Joshua was even worse! His monsters actually enjoyed the killings! This clearly goes against the 6th commandment. I say if you can't obey your own laws, you shouldn't expect anyone else to. IOW lead by example.

I don't know about rape. You may show me the verses.

I already did! Numbers 31: 17-18

K

 

[Ken-1122]

There is light, and there is something (planet) rotating.
The consequence is the illuminated side and the shadow side.

Clear enough?

This implies the Earth existed before the Sun and all the other stars and planets; something that we are going to have to agree to disagree with.

Let's move on to the next; Noah's Ark.
Please provide details on how it is possible from a scientific engineering standpoint, to make a vessel 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high made completely out of non-pressure treated wood, without any steel reinforcements; and still have this structure float.

Ken

 

[juvenissun]

This implies the Earth existed before the Sun and all the other stars and planets; something that we are going to have to agree to disagree with.

Let's move on to the next; Noah's Ark.
Please provide details on how it is possible from a scientific engineering standpoint, to make a vessel 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high made completely out of non-pressure treated wood, without any steel reinforcements; and still have this structure float.

Ken

Yes, the earth, in general, planet, is very likely to be formed before the Sun (star). There is no reason not to. Our middle/high school model is probably wrong.

I am not an engineer. So my comment on this one would be as bad as yours. But the burden is not on me but is on you. You need to argue that the Art is not able to support large load. I am not convinced by simply saying it won't. This one should, in fact, be the easiest to verify. Because the size and the structure of the Ark are clearly described in the Scripture. I have not heard any strong argument against the strength of the Ark.

 

[juvenissun]

What about Saul and Joshua? Their wars were like that! Joshua was even worse! His monsters actually enjoyed the killings! This clearly goes against the 6th commandment. I say if you can't obey your own laws, you shouldn't expect anyone else to. IOW lead by example.


I already did! Numbers 31: 17-18

K

Many places recorded in the Numbers and the Joshua shows that Israelites did not completely obey God's order. Num 31 is a good example. Only I don't read anything about rape.

Midianites did not live in the land of Canaan. Israelites only passed by their territory. God clearly says that women and children could be spared in this case.

 

[Ken-1122]

Many places recorded in the Numbers and the Joshua shows that Israelites did not completely obey God's order. Num 31 is a good example. Only I don't read anything about rape.

Numbers 31:17-18 says:
Kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (18)But all the women that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
Keep alive for yourselves means the virgins were kept alive for rape

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Yes, the earth, in general, planet, is very likely to be formed before the Sun (star). There is no reason not to. Our middle/high school model is probably wrong.

According to science, the Sun birthed Earth and all the other planets. But as I said before, we can agree to disagree with this one.

I am not an engineer. So my comment on this one would be as bad as yours. But the burden is not on me but is on you. You need to argue that the Art is not able to support large load. I am not convinced by simply saying it won't. This one should, in fact, be the easiest to verify. Because the size and the structure of the Ark are clearly described in the Scripture. I have not heard any strong argument against the strength of the Ark.

My claim is that it won't float because wood is too flexible. A quick google search of the largest completely wooden vessels of today are not nearly that size. Even when that christian guy John Huibers made the replicia of Noah's Ark for display had to use steel reinforcements when he made his model.
Dutchman Johan Huibers launches life-sized Noah's Ark replica in Dordrecht | Mail Online

Ken

 

[juvenissun]

Numbers 31:17-18 says:
Kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. (18)But all the women that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
Keep alive for yourselves means the virgins were kept alive for rape

Ken

Absolutely not.

They were either been kept as slave (to be freed at the 7th year), or married to an Israelite. This is clearly ordered in Deut.

If one raped such a girl, the person could be stoned to death.

 

[juvenissun]

According to science, the Sun birthed Earth and all the other planets. But as I said before, we can agree to disagree with this one.


My claim is that it won't float because wood is too flexible. A quick google search of the largest completely wooden vessels of today are not nearly that size. Even when that christian guy John Huibers made the replicia of Noah's Ark for display had to use steel reinforcements when he made his model.
Dutchman Johan Huibers launches life-sized Noah's Ark replica in Dordrecht | Mail Online

Ken

No. You can not "agree or disagree" with scientific models. Either it is wrong, or it is right.

Huibers' ark is built to display. It could be strengthen to sail. Give enough wood and enough time, any size of ship WILL float. Wood floats. Ship made of wood definitely floats.

 

[Ken-1122]

No. You can not "agree or disagree" with scientific models. Either it is wrong, or it is right.

Scientific models say the Sun was before the Earth.

Huibers' ark is built to display. It could be strengthen to sail. Give enough wood and enough time, any size of ship WILL float. Wood floats. Ship made of wood definitely floats.

As flexible as wood is, what would you use to prevent the structure from flexing and falling apart?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

After reading over our conversations I now understand our misunderstanding and it’s my mistake. Instead of saying a wooden ship wouldn’t float, I should have used the term “sea worthy”. The problem with a wooden ship of that size is that the motion of the ocean would cause the wood to flex and fall apart. I should have been clearer when making my point.

Ken

 

[juvenissun]

Scientific models say the Sun was before the Earth.

As flexible as wood is, what would you use to prevent the structure from flexing and falling apart?

Ken

The sun first model has significant problem. The planet first model is easier.

A lot of trusses and ropes may fasten the Ark good enough.

 

[juvenissun]

After reading over our conversations I now understand our misunderstanding and it’s my mistake. Instead of saying a wooden ship wouldn’t float, I should have used the term “sea worthy”. The problem with a wooden ship of that size is that the motion of the ocean would cause the wood to flex and fall apart. I should have been clearer when making my point.

Ken

I think the main problem is on the beam. It is hard to find a single piece of wood long enough for the whole ark. However, this would also be the problem for larger ship built in history. If they can do it, Noah can certainly do it.

 

[PhantomGaze]

I don't see why the bible has to be all correct. I think the story of the resurrection just has to be true. Christianity really rises or falls on that.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't see why the bible has to be all correct. I think the story of the resurrection just has to be true. Christianity really rises or falls on that.

Because it is ONE integrated theology. If one part failed, then other parts become suspect.

 

[Ken-1122]

The sun first model has significant problem. The planet first model is easier.

Please expalin why

A lot of trusses and ropes may fasten the Ark good enough.

Ropes and trusses made of what? Unless they are made of steel, they will probably flex more than the wood.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

I think the main problem is on the beam. It is hard to find a single piece of wood long enough for the whole ark.

No, the problem is the fact that wood flexes and the ocean is constantly moving.

However, this would also be the problem for larger ship built in history. If they can do it, Noah can certainly do it.

The largest all wooden ship built in history is not nearly as big as Noah's. Why do you suppose this is?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Because it is ONE integrated theology. If one part failed, then other parts become suspect.

Can you now see why a skeptic such as myself would not see logic behind these stories?

Ken

 

[PhantomGaze]

Because it is ONE integrated theology. If one part failed, then other parts become suspect.

That sounds like a nice line from modern evangelical orthodoxy, but I don't think that Jabba begetting Jub Jub would have changed the story much, nor would much change in Christianity if the entire OT was re-written other than to change the Sunday school stories we tell the kiddies. ...Maybe there would be less justification in some people's minds for certain wars, but hey that wouldn't be a bad thing!

 

[PhantomGaze]

Can you now see why a skeptic such as myself would not see logic behind these stories?

Ken

I certainly can. Personally, I think a strict "all or nothing" perspective taught by a lot of Uber-Evangelical groups is the primary method of making atheists.

 

[juvenissun]

No, the problem is the fact that wood flexes and the ocean is constantly moving.

The largest all wooden ship built in history is not nearly as big as Noah's. Why do you suppose this is?

Ken

It should be longer than the tallest tree. Somehow two or more logs have to be connected to form a beam. By just taking a few more such operation, Noah could do the same.

A flexible Ark is fine, as long as it does not disintegrate.

And, the rising ocean might be significantly quiet. Noah might not even see a big wave during his whole journey.