No new Mosques?

[kenzo0]

LOL. Have we ever heard of the Inquisition?

Smaneck, Inquisition was constitution of human being, and its not came from Bible...

if this Inquisition was in the Bible, it shouldn't be have an ending.

its different case, if you see Islam practice it nowadays, because its recorded in its literature, my dear Smaneck..

And please, don't hand me the No True Scotsman argument.
If Christians no longer engage in this behavior it is because the Enlightenment (an explicitly anti-Christian movement) made the West considerably less religious.

Smaneck, you must be kidding

from your statement that I quoted above and I bolded, you have realize without you aware of it, that the Inquisition was the "handmade/human made"...

The English in this article is so bad it is incomprehensible.

that's why I stated earlier, that this act are hardly exposes by media.
there are plenty in its original language.

He does use fighting words, I'll grant you that.

Smaneck, you must be kidding again..
in my experience, there will be two choices:
1. apologize and recite syahadat
2. be kufar and died

I guess you ever glanced there are a thread "Jesus didn't come to save him"

 

[kenzo0]

Kufar literally means ungrateful.

not only that, Smaneck

Other than a few idiots on this forum most Christians do believe in Allah.

Smaneck, are you for real?

you must be forgotten, that all character in the Bible were embrace Islam too

Muhammad, of course, would be another issue by definition.

you must be forgotten that Muhammad even had conversation with Adam and Moses before Adam sent to the earth by Allah

However:

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, WHOEVER BELIEVES IN GOD AND THE LAST DAY AND DOES GOOD, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."{Holy Quran 2:62}

Compare with this, Smaneck:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."


Now, lets see, what the verse in the Quran says...
and its meant;
The Jews got reward from YHVH
and Christians from GOD through Christ..

There's nothing to do with Allah

Don't see any mention of the Prophet above.

ooooh, smaneck..
if you read carefully the verses before and after that verse you have quoted, its talked about Moses and Israel, that's why in some Quran translation you will found there were explanation in the brackets said "before Muhammad" [check here:]The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation, the explanation in the bracket gave was the reason why Jews and Christians were mentioned there.

 

[kenzo0]

Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that Jonathan Edwards was considered America's greatest preacher? His sermons *are* Christian literature.

So, Jonathan Edwards was considered America's greater preacher and that's meant his sermons "are" Christian literature?
it wouldn't called Christian any longer...
but Jonathan Edwardsian

 

[Crypto]

Here is a portion of the famous speech of the Governor Withrop of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

“we shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when tens of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies, when he shall make us a praise and a glory, that men shall say of succeeding plantations: the lord make it like New England, for we must consider that we shall be as a City upon a Hill, the eyes of all people upon us.”

Jonathan Edwards wrote that “the latter day glory” would begin in America. “It is not likely that this work of God’s spirit [the revivals] so extraordinary and wonderful,” Edwards asserted, “is the dawning, or at least a prelude of that glorious work of God, so often foretold in scripture, which in the progress and issue of it, shall renew the world of mankind.”

I didn't know that Governor Withrop's discourse was part of the Bible. It is the first time that I hear about this prophet. Well, we learn something new every day.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Hi Woodrow, thank you for your patient.

please show me that one came from the Bible, brother..

I don't understand where's that belief came from, for the Christianity itself doesn't found in America or American
Do you blame Christianity for the "Manifest Destiny" understanding?
please show me from Christianity Literature regarding "Manifest Destiny" then I will admit that that was really Christ teaching.
If you can not, I should say that you had seen the "weed"

I'm sorry brother, how could you blame Christianity for this act while you can not give me evidence from Christianity's literature?
and please, once again... show me


every country has their own dark history..
I understand if you and your brethren blame the people who belief of "Manifest Destiny"..
BUT if only because of they were Christians you blame Christianity? this one I couldn't understand,

and disagree with you.
UNLESS you can give me the evidence from its literature

As you have stated before, that "there were evil people in all religion"... and for this I agreed with you, but in Islam exception, because this religion blessed that action.

again, I have to ask you, show me

Dear Sister,

I think you may be misunderstanding me. I did not say those beliefs were in the Bible. I said Some even seem to believe they are.

America is a Christian Nation. some even seem to believe the Constitution came from the bible.

There still are people that believe the US constitution comes directly from the Bible. It did not but you will find people here in America that believe it is.

Some people in the USA that claim to be Christians actually believe Christianity is an American Religion. I am not saying it is in the bible or that these people represent Christianity. but in America you will find many strange practices and beliefs by people who believe they are Christians and some atrocities have been committed by them.

For starts I suggest you look at this Site

The Constitution Quotes The Bible ‘Verbatim’? | The American Jesus

:

The Constitution Quotes The Bible ‘Verbatim’?


Meet David Barton.
He’s part of an organization called “Wall Builders” which seeks to “rebuild our nation’s [Christian] foundations.”
In this clip, which comes to us from James Robinson’s Life TV, Mr. Barton tries to explain to us the Biblical roots of the United States Constitution.

- See more at: The Constitution Quotes The Bible ‘Verbatim’? | The American Jesus

 

[smaneck]

Smaneck, Inquisition was constitution of human being, and its not came from Bible...

It was authorized by the highest authority within Christendom.

if this Inquisition was in the Bible, iits different case, if you see Islam practice it nowadays, because its recorded in its literature, my dear Smaneck..it shouldn't be have an ending.

Actually the office of Grand Inquisitor still exists no renamed Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It was headed by Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Pope. And it is recorded in Christian literature, namely Canon Law.

 

[smaneck]

I didn't know that Governor Withrop's discourse was part of the Bible. It is the first time that I hear about this prophet. Well, we learn something new every day.

She didn't say the Bible she said Christian Literature. Governor Withrop's speech may not constitute Christian Literature, but Jonathan Edward's sermons certainly do.

 

[smaneck]

So, Jonathan Edwards was considered America's greater preacher and that's meant his sermons "are" Christian literature?
it wouldn't called Christian any longer...
but Jonathan Edwardsian

Uh yes. I think you are confusing literature with scripture. In English those are two different things.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Good God, the effrontery of some people.

I'm only addressing some of the blatant lies on this thread.

Praise be to Allah and peace be upon the one after whom there is no [further] prophet. After the permanent committee for the scientific research and fatwahs (religious decrees) reviewed the question presented to the grand Mufti Abu Abdullah Muhammad Al-Shemary, the question forwarded to the committee by the grand scholar of the committee with reference number 1809 issued on 3/8/1421 (Islamic calendar). The inquirer asked the following:

Funny how this only shows up on anti-Islaamic sites. Funny how that this fatwa cannot be found in the books of fataawa. Funny how apparently the Arabic version of this alleged fatwa is very clumsy, has grammatical errors, and is not like the fus-ha Arabic with which scholars speak/write.

As for the video at the end of the post, I don't know what that proves.

Regarding the tribe leader (Umm Qirfa) being killed: Truth about Killing of Umm Qirfa

Hey, Muslims, check this:

Necrophilia in Islam, New Law in Egypt - YouTube

*sigh* Unsurprisingly false.

Egypt 'necrophilia law'? Hooey, utter hooey. - CSMonitor.com

Ahead of elections, Egypt's state propaganda machine rolls on - CSMonitor.com

The following narration does not exist in the English translations of Sahih Muslim, but a similar (but sanitized version) appears in: Sahih Muslim 3:684

Sex with animals

So the punishment for bestiality in Islaam, if proven, is death. Just because a scholar tells you what you have to do if you do something absolutely forbidden in Islaam does NOT mean that it's ok to commit that sin in the first place. I thought this was a simple concept. Others here, non-Muslims, seem to understand that.

On the contrary, the hadith that I cited mentions rape (widespread rape, to be more precise) and it was written as an example to be followed by all Muslims, at all times, under all circumstances, for all eternity.

.......No. Just, no.

 

[smaneck]

Funny how this only shows up on anti-Islaamic sites. Funny how that this fatwa cannot be found in the books of fataawa. Funny how apparently the Arabic version of this alleged fatwa is very clumsy, has grammatical errors, and is not like the fus-ha Arabic with which scholars speak/write.

I was wondering about that myself. I couldn't find this guy's name any place else either. You would think a mufti would be more well-known.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I was wondering about that myself. I couldn't find this guy's name any place else either. You would think a mufti would be more well-known.

Sadly my hearing is too poor to pick that up. I could not hear him well enough to even understand one word and had to rely on the English Cartions.

But, as he did not name any Qu'ran verifications of what he said. His opinion is not a fatwa.

There is not even any indication he is Muslim except the credibility of the video producers. Which I have doubts about.

 

[smaneck]

Sadly my hearing is too poor to pick that up. I could not hear him well enough to even understand one word and had to rely on the English Cartions.

My Arabic is certainly not good enough to check anyone's grammar, but I did google his name. I found muftis with the same surname but they appear to have been deceased a long time ago.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

(1) The verse in Numbers doesn't state that the captive women were going to be given the status of slaves of any kind

It said to "take them for yourself" which strongly implies ownership or control. What do you think a man would want a virgin for when he murdered their parents and male siblings and kept her for himself? Would a young virgin want to be taken in by the people who murdered her parents? I see the same problems here as in the Hadith.

(2) The verse in Numbers doesn't mention widespread raping of the captives, regardless of the captives' age. Actually, no raping at all is mentioned.

The hadith didn't give permission to rape them either. If they declined they were to be left alone. If rape happened it would actually violate the hadith.

(

3) The war in Numbers is restricted to the conflict with the nations that occupied the land of Israel. Numbers 31:18 is not an open-ended law, meant to be applied for all eternity.

The authorization to fight "against those who fight against you" was not an open ended message to fight every "pagan" on the face of the planet either. It was against specific "infidels" or "pagans" who themselves initiated battle and prohibited the practice of Islam. In fact it specifically says to "desist" fighting if they stop doing it. Certainly the idea that you can fight those who fight against you, and that you can kill those "infidels" might still be considered valid but there is no call to kill every non Muslim like some anti-Islamic hate page or Al Qaeda website might try to imply.

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).​

 

[Ishraqiyun]

first you should know what the meaning of KUFAR, and how many KUFAR are there...
Although the Jews and The Christians are recognized as "People of the Book" in the Quran, but they are "kufar" because they not believe in Allah and Muhammad.

I guess Kufar are thought to have nothing to fear from God then in Islamic thought:

"Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. "S. 2:62
​

Apparently there are also upright "Kufar" then too:

[However] They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book there is an upright community who recites the revelation of God during the night and fall prostrate before Him. They believe in God and the Last Day, enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil, and vie with one another in good works. They are of the righteous and whatever good they do, its reward will not be denied them. God knows those who fear [Him]. - Al-Imran 3:113-15
​

Even if, however, they were labeled "kufar" the Quran still doesn't authorize war against them on that alone in the first place. It authorized battles against "kufar" but not for being "kufar" but rather for fighting against Muslims and prohibiting the practice of Islam. In fact war can be fought even to protect Christians (churches) and Jews (synagogues) in the Quran:

if Allah had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where Allah‘s name is mentionedmuch, would have been pulled down and destroyed. Allah will certainly help those who help Him—Allah is All-Strong, Almighty.- Al-Hajj 22: 40​

Muslims are not supposed to fight those who do not fight them or drive them from their home:

Allah does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. Allah loves those who are just. Allah merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion. Any who take them as friends are wrongdoers.- Al-Mumtahanah 60: 8-9​

 

[Ishraqiyun]

It really seems like people have been getting most of their information on Islam primarly from sources that seek to trash the religion. Probably from webpabes and books with names like "Islam Exposed" and "The Sins of Muhammad" or from Christian, Hindu , etc.. apologetic sources that seek to sell their religion by trashing others. This would be like a person studying the writings of the strongly anti-Christian "New Atheists" or old Soviet propaganda in order understand our religion of Christianity. Try taking some time to read actual scholarly/ respected academic writtings by people who specialize in Islamic studies for a change. You don't even need to read books by actual moderate Muslims if that's too much to ask but at least something a little more neutral than "Islam Watch" so you can get a more well rounded view. Many of these scholars are Christian or belong to religions other than Islam but they take their study seriously enough to give accurate information rather than anti-Muslim apologetics or propaganda.

Some of this is on par with a Fundamentalist Muslim thinking they "know Judaism" because they browsed the out of context (occasionally outright invented) Talmud quotes on the Jew Watch webpage and read the Protocols of Zion. Hey, he even skimmed the Torah once with these anti-Jewish views already coloring what he would see. That's what the "Islamic experts" schooled by Islam Watch, The Religion of Peace, The Sword of the Prophet and other propaganda sites and books tend to look like to me.

 

[WoodrowX2]

It really seems like people have been getting most of their information on Islam primarly from sources that seek to trash the religion. Probably from webpabes and books with names like "Islam Exposed" and "The Sins of Muhammad" or from Christian, Hindu , etc.. apologetic sources that seek to sell their religion by trashing others. This would be like a person studying the writings of the strongly anti-Christian "New Atheists" or old Soviet propaganda in order understand our religion of Christianity. Try taking some time to read actual scholarly/ respected academic writtings by people who specialize in Islamic studies for a change. You don't even need to read books by actual moderate Muslims if that's too much to ask but at least something a little more neutral than "Islam Watch" so you can get a more well rounded view. Many of these scholars are Christian or belong to religions other than Islam but they take their study seriously enough to give accurate information rather than anti-Muslim apologetics or propaganda.

Some of the misconceptions can be attributed to how the Google search engines work If you put in the words Islam or Muslim or even an Arabic term. the first pages will be predominately anti-islam hate sites.

No conspiracy just a fact of life.English language Islamic Hate sites far outnumber the actual Islamic sites.


Even worse some hate sites look like actual Islamic Sites. wiki-Islam being a good example.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

oh my goodness me,I want to ask you, as a Christian would you swallow all the content in the Bible, especially OT? or you as a Christian take that verses as reflection to more understand and close to God?
if you as a Christian follow blindly what written in the OT, I don't know how to call you

Do I reject much of the "Old Testament" as being divinely revealed? Yes, I do but that's a very small minority view and ends you up in the "heretic" camp. I don't mind being there though. Most Christians have that as part of their Scriptures though. Just read the statements by the mainstream Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox churches or look at the books called "The Bible" being sold at Christian book stores. Yes, many Christian do ignore or gloss over the bad parts too. I'm sure members of most religions including Islam do the same for certain "hard verses" too.

you are mistaken.

please show me from Christianity literature, the command to kill whoever leave Christianity, brother..
I could show you from "this" religion plus the implementation, if you like to, you can read in previous posts

I don't think I was making that claim. Certainly some Christian literature or laws passed by Christians called for that but not the Bible*. The fact that the Bible dosn't say that in no way implies that it's impossible for there to be verses that shock modern sensibilities though. That's only one issue among millions of possibilities.

* I guess there are verses in the Old Testament that call for the killing of people who leave the worship of YHWH and instead worship idols though. If that's part of your Bible then the Bible does have that.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

This is Russia we're talking about, and the capital city to boot. Not exactly known by many to be tolerant of anything that is not Russian.

As for your biggots who seem to agree since churches aren't built in Saudi Arabia, let me remind you of something. Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. Muslim doctrine, Shari'a law, the whole nine yards. Your "tolerant" countries are only tolerant of others, because of non-Christians and Christians who made change through non-violent means and laws. Don't gloat that you're tolerant of non-Christians, particularly you conservatives, when you want every Mexican in the SouthWest US to be asked for proof of citizenship.

 

[TG123]

This is Russia we're talking about, and the capital city to boot. Not exactly known by many to be tolerant of anything that is not Russian.

As for your biggots who seem to agree since churches aren't built in Saudi Arabia, let me remind you of something. Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. Muslim doctrine, Shari'a law, the whole nine yards. Your "tolerant" countries are only tolerant of others, because of non-Christians and Christians who made change through non-violent means and laws. Don't gloat that you're tolerant of non-Christians, particularly you conservatives, when you want every Mexican in the SouthWest US to be asked for proof of citizenship.

Salaam Alaikum. I share your anger and disgust at the conduct of some non-Muslims (including some Christians) on this forum who support taking discriminatory measures against Islam. I think it is cruel and bigoted to ban the building of mosques or wearing of the hijab, or other measures that Muslims are subjected to or being threatened with. I condemn such actions.

Do you condemn the restrictions that Saudi Arabia imposes on non-Muslims, such as not allowing them to wear crosses in public or forcing them to worship in seclusion and banning prosyletizing?

 

[Crypto]

Salaam Alaikum. I share your anger and disgust at the conduct of some non-Muslims (including some Christians) on this forum who support taking discriminatory measures against Islam. I think it is cruel and bigoted to ban the building of mosques or wearing of the hijab, or other measures that Muslims are subjected to or being threatened with. I condemn such actions.

Do you condemn the restrictions that Saudi Arabia imposes on non-Muslims, such as not allowing them to wear crosses in public or forcing them to worship in seclusion and banning prosyletizing?

You regard your fellow Christians as bigots because they are aware of the danger that Islam represents to the free world. Furthermore, you apologize for any attempt at stopping the relentless advance of the Islamic supremacist movement. I wonder what does it take for people like you to finally see the world as it really is.

I suggest you to study the recent history of Lebanon. This country was until very recently a Christian country. During the XX century its economy was thriving, and they open their border to their neighboring Muslim nations, whose citizens came to Lebanon to study and to work. The Lebanese birth rate was lower than the Muslim birth rate. This, combined with the massive Muslim immigration, changed the demographic landscape of Lebanon completely. After a few decades, the Christian and Muslim populations were equal in size. Then, the Muslim population became extremely aggressive. They demanded Sharia law and formed their own army. The Lebanese people failed to understand them, since thy couldn't believe that the Islamic discourse was a serious one. After all, most Lebanese people had moderate Muslim friends, neighbors and colleagues. How powerful could the radicals be? However, when the Muslim army in Lebanon declared widespread jihad against the Christian population, even the most moderate Muslims joined the fight and started killing their neighbors. Muslims used to desecrate churches, to rape women, to behead men, to crucify boys and to smear honey in their private part to attract the bees so as to maximize the pain that they were suffering in their agony. They even forced mothers to cut the throats of their own sons. If you don't believe me, watch this:

The Truth About Islam: An Interview With Brigitte Gabriel - YouTube