What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

[Epiphoskei]

I note that you have not answered my question and have not explained why it is a non sequitur.

How do you expect someone to explain how something doesn't follow? It's your job to make an argument where the conclusions follow from the premises. Telling me that I can't say what I said while maintaining what Calvin said is not such an argument.

Calvin's quote is A, mine is B. Unless you're prepared to explain why !B follows from A, telling me that I'm contradicting A by saying B doesn't follow.

 

[janxharris]

That's a complete non-sequitur.

True or false?

God not only knew the end from the beginning, but He planned, fixed, predestinated everything from the beginning. And, as cause stands to effect, so God’s purpose is the ground of His prescience. If then the reader be a real Christian, he is so because God chose him in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4), and chose not because He foresaw you would believe, but chose simply because it pleased Him to choose: chose you notwithstanding your natural unbelief.
(A. W. Pink, 'The Attributes of God', chapter four, 'The Foreknowledge of God')​

 

[janxharris]

How do you expect someone to explain how something doesn't follow? It's your job to make an argument where the conclusions follow from the premises. Telling me that I can't say what I said while maintaining what Calvin said is not such an argument.

Calvin's quote is A, mine is B. Unless you're prepared to explain why !B follows from A, telling me that I'm contradicting A by saying B doesn't follow.

I note that you still have not answered my question. You seem to be implying assent to Calvin, but without being explicit. Please would you do so?
I am a little confused by exactly what you believe.

 

[Epiphoskei]

True or false?

God not only knew the end from the beginning, but He planned, fixed, predestinated everything from the beginning. And, as cause stands to effect, so God’s purpose is the ground of His prescience. If then the reader be a real Christian, he is so because God chose him in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4), and chose not because He foresaw you would believe, but chose simply because it pleased Him to choose: chose you notwithstanding your natural unbelief.
(A. W. Pink, 'The Attributes of God', chapter four, 'The Foreknowledge of God')​

Probably true. Pink often writes of determinism with too fatalistic a vocabulary choice, so I tend to avoid him.

 

[Epiphoskei]

I note that you still have not answered my question. You seem to be implying assent to Calvin, but without being explicit. Please would you do so?
I am a little confused by exactly what you believe.

Yes, I agree with Calvin's statement.

 

[OzSpen]

Probably true. Pink often writes of determinism with too fatalistic a vocabulary choice, so I tend to avoid him.

Do you believe that God caused/decreed every event in history to take place?

 

[janxharris]

Yes, I agree with Calvin's statement.

If you agree with Calvin and probably agree with Pink then you cannot preach as you suggest.

You, o unbeliever, are not excluded from Israel for your lack of circumcision, your lack of bondage under the law, your lack of observance of Hebrew rites. Good news! There is nothing barring you from having been saved efficaciously through the particular redemption Christ has already completed on the cross if you believe.

Nothing barring you? Yet you believe God barred some when he elected some and not others. Such a preaching of the gospel would be a cruel deception.

I think you are out of step with Calvinism, which does not allow for any consideration of foreknowledge of individuals.

 

[guuila]

Is it impossible for God to make Christ known to them? Yes or no?

Genesis 3:8-9
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

You are suggesting that this can never take between God and just any man?

Also Romans 2:14,15; Matthew 11:21-24. The point made there is obvious, so I don't know why you have to ask what the point is. You clearly just want to ignore these scriptures.

You're grasping at straws. Until you actually exegete Rom. 2:14, 15 and Matt. 11:21-24, you have no argument. Simply throwing Scripture out there hoping it'll magically work ain't gonna cut it.

 

[guuila]

Predestination is not a fact supported by Scripture. Calvin got his exegesis wrong.

John
NZ

Red herring. Who cares about what Calvin thought? Let's stick to what the Bible says. Thanks!

 

[guuila]

Why are you avoiding this Oz?

'"God is delaying Christ's return hoping the non-elect will believe?'(your statement).

What is Calvinistic about that?

 

[janxharris]

You're grasping at straws. Until you actually exegete Rom. 2:14, 15 and Matt. 11:21-24, you have no argument. Simply throwing Scripture out there hoping it'll magically work ain't gonna cut it.

I take these scriptures at face value.

I shall ask again:

Is it impossible for God to make Christ known to them? Yes or no? (Q.1)

Genesis 3:8-9
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

Q.2 Are you suggesting that all those (edit: gentiles) born a nano-second before Christ's work of salvation occurred are without hope?

 

[guuila]

I take these scriptures at face value.

Okay. What about them? What is your point?

Q.2 Are you suggesting that all those (edit: gentiles) born a nano-second before Christ's work of salvation occurred are without hope?

No. But I'm still wondering how it is you believe the Amorites knew about Jesus.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Do you believe that God caused/decreed every event in history to take place?

No! God decreed only the events of redemptive history to take place.

 

[Hammster]

Do you believe that God caused/decreed every event in history to take place?

Red herring.

 

[janxharris]

Red herring.

Green tomato.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Green tomato.

I answered Oz's question directly in post #593.

 

[Hammster]

Green tomato.

It's fun, isn't it?

 

[Jack Terrence]

I take these scriptures at face value.

This is a cop out. In Romans 2 Paul was laying the ground work for his premise that no man can be justified by the law (chs. 3-5).

Does context mean anything to you?

 

[guuila]

Well, that was more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Nothing barring you? Yet you believe God barred some when he elected some and not others.

That is not how Calvinism works. That is how Arminians wish Calvinism works, so that they would have a case against it.

Again, there is nothing barring any human being, without exception, from being saved if he believes.