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Noah's Ark Mystery

Lollerskates

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I was refering to the energy released from the movement of the plates, not heat from the star. Also, the bible says they drowned. It says nothing about earthquakes and nothing about vulcanism. The best comparison with what we see today for the "bursting of the fountains of the deep" would be geysers, not vulcanism. Also, why is there no evidence of this event in the geological record?

That is why I said the bible says nothing about a blue whale's tongue weighing more than an elephant. God expects you to deduce, induce and reduce information from the "bread crumbs" give already. If you are an erudite believer, you would understand a dead star coming upon the earth would cause seismic activity. If you were a physicist, you would know a dead star coming upon the earth would produce gravitational and electrodynamic perturbations what would cause breaking of "plates." This is not metaphysics as I said before; this is science. Go to your local physics department college and ask then what would happen if a Jovian mass came upon the earth.

Why is there no geological record? EVERYONE DIED EXCEPT EIGHT PEOPLE. And there are petroglyphs. How much more doom do you want? They made petryglyphs because they figured those would survive. Even submerged rock is still ROCK with engravings.

The part I find that is far-fetched is the idea that this event caused the rapid breakup of Pangea into what we have today. The rest is plausible as an idea, but there is no evidence in the geological record to back it up, no dwarf star identified (and yes, I know it would be hard to find if the orbit was extreme) and the scriptural support you provided is as I said, thin at best.
Ho hum (no disrespect.) I am literally bored with the "no record" argument. No one with out security clearance has a time machine. So, academic canon of today about the earth of "yesterday" is conjecture at best. Revelation uses the same name NASA uses for the dwarf star - both call it a star. Have you seen the Fifth Element? They are basically begging people to be aware so that they have a challenge. Too bad they have taught people too well how to scoff, rather than indulge and entertain.


Thank you.

No problem. We can disagree all day long. You know in our fields everyone had the "right" answer. It is nothing new to me. It should be nothing new to you. Respect, should be bond between us - no matter how much we ague, or disagree.



What effect would this passing have on earth's orbit? Certainly much worse than what scripture describes.

I will simply put: that is why there are apocryphal books. I am not a fan of bible canon in the West. Take that as you will, or ask me what I mean.



Why can you not provide some citation for this? Do you ask your readers to find it for you when you write a paper?

Because we are in the age of google. And, you make it worse for yourself by saying you are a doctorate of biology. You know the power of research, and because you expressed that tidbit of info, I hold you at a higher level of responsibility. You can easily find out the info for yourself. I would (in all honestly) be diminishing your intellectual prowess by giving you the info. You can easily find it.

CAVEAT: I saw the NASA document when I was tethered to Columbia's network. I do not know if it is available to you. I believe it was a Springer document, which usually means you have to pay if your server is not a subscriber. You may be able to read the abstract. In any case, I cannot give you the "citation" now because I am no longer a part of Columbia's server - and therefore privy to Springer subscriptions. That is why I said google it (as I said, I was not being insulting.)



Why can you not provide some citation for this? Do you ask your readers to find it for you when you write a paper?

See above.



I am contesting your assertion that the bible authors considered the sun to be a star. This should have little to do with any NASA document.

Then, I would suggest you read the bible. The biblical heroes were not dumb; they knew about celestial mechanics. They knew a sun is a star. Like I said, if you are "man enough" (jokes,) read apocryphal books - namely Enoch. There are several stars named after humans - humans who know suns are stars.



See above. This is a discussion forum. You should be prepared for others to contest your claims. I am not disrespectful of scripture, btw.

I didn't say you are disrespectful. In fact, I found a new respect of you as a scientific academic colleague. However, we can still vehemently disagree :p.

I am prepared for contest, but I challenge my opponents to discover their own information. That is why I kept saying, "look it up on google," or "seek out the NASA documents." You outing yourself as a Ph.D. in biology makes me more critical of you, and your research methods. You aren't a scientific layperson, so I expect much more from you.




He only drank the stuff because he couldn't find a way to fulfill Koch's postulates by infecting piglets.

We argue enough, no matter how much I think I know, that is a biology thing. I am not going to argue with you about biology. You win (seriously.) Your turn (w.r.t physcis)? :(







Why can you not provide some citation for this? Do you ask your readers to find it for you when you write a paper?

Because we are in the age of google. That would have been enough if I didn't know you were a Ph.D in biology. We are in the age of google + doctorate learned research. That is fully why.

To answer your question, sometimes I ask my readers to find it when I write a paper. Sometimes.




Why can you not provide some citation for this? Do you ask your readers to find it for you when you write a paper?

See above. You and I both outed ourselves when we professed our professions. Unfortunately for you, I am your [tangential] colleague as a physicist. So as a Ph.D, I don't let you get away with what laypersons can get away with. May cause more tension with us, whatever. If you got your Ph.D., you are used to tension - you have to be (your thesis council had to be enough tension.) Just because we are academic peers doesn't mean we can't disagree. I respect your right of disagreement.


I was raised Catholic, but no longer believe. That should have little to do with what the physical evidence tells us, however.


You know what a mathematician would say to that... right? ;)

Mathematicians answer to God? LOL if that is what you think, you truly must be a biologist. That is a scientific inside joke.



[quote[BTW: I did a Google search for "NASA Wormwood" and got all kinds of hits covering doomsday planet, asteroids, prophesies, and all kinds of stuff.

Yea, well I didn't tell you about the B.S. you would have to shovel through lol...

Disinformation is rampant. Like I said above, I was quoting a website I [think I] had access to as part of Columbia's network. I am not even sure you will have access to the Springer documents I saw. Sorry; I know it is lame, but that is the truth. Columbia's network had access to documents I found out were special to Columbia (once I was not part of their network.) So, yea apologies for not finding wormwood... it doesn't help my argument. But I saw it (if my word means anything.) I would say if you care, look it up and research hard.
 
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Lollerskates

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I think reading his posts is enough of a demonstration.
Good, bow out, since I am enough demonstration.

Yes, and if he was a scientist he would know that.

It is easy to claim you are something. Your work can demonstrate if you are that something or not.

You do understand that the things I post on this website would, with good funding and much more thorough scientific expression, would be a scholarly article (with correct up-keeping.) Your country is the one that makes you pay for access to scholarly articles, and then you complain that I don't give you scientific transparency thorough "essays?"

Lollerskates,

It is a reasonable request to present the evidence for a claim you make.

It is bhsmte, but I don't feel comfortable giving evidence in the age of google, when a conversation is multi-spiritual (atheist/agnostic vs. Christian) and diverse in "science." Forget that, I know what I had to go through to research to have arguments on this thread. I don't feel comfortable giving up well-worked-for knowledge just to have it argued down. Why indulge in more argument? Everything I said can be looked up on google, except maybe Wormwood. As I said, I had access to those documents while at Columbia; maybe extensive search can find them.
 
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selfinflikted

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lasthero

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Why is there no geological record? EVERYONE DIED EXCEPT EIGHT PEOPLE.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that when people are talking about a geologic record, they're talking about something someone wrote down. Is that what you're saying the 'geologic record' is?
 
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bhsmte

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Good, bow out, since I am enough demonstration.


You do understand that the things I post on this website would, with good funding and much more thorough scientific expression, would be a scholarly article (with correct up-keeping.) Your country is the one that makes you pay for access to scholarly articles, and then you complain that I don't give you scientific transparency thorough "essays?"



It is bhsmte, but I don't feel comfortable giving evidence in the age of google, when a conversation is multi-spiritual (atheist/agnostic vs. Christian) and diverse in "science." Forget that, I know what I had to go through to research to have arguments on this thread. I don't feel comfortable giving up well-worked-for knowledge just to have it argued down. Why indulge in more argument? Everything I said can be looked up on google, except maybe Wormwood. As I said, I had access to those documents while at Columbia; maybe extensive search can find them.

You logic in the last paragraph makes zero sense to me and quite frankly, sounds like simply avoiding anyone being critical of your evidence.
 
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Lollerskates

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And miss all this? No way.




:doh:

Heh.

Like I said before, don't diminish yourself as a human. Do you have hands? Do you have eyes? Do you have a brain? Do you have 10 fingers?

Then you should be able to google everything I said to disprove me (or vindicate me.) I BEG you to prove me wrong (or right.) Go to school/MIT courseworks, become an "expert," and prove me wrong (or right). Superfluous claptrap ad hominem does not impress me. Stop being lazy; do work on google at least. Then come to me with an argument. I am all for intellectual debate.
 
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lasthero

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Have you seen the Fifth Element? They are basically begging people to be aware so that they have a challenge.

I've seen it. Thought it was okay. Maybe a little too flashy; I didn't care for the design too much, just too...gaudy. I want to say gaudy. And I thought the setup was a bit contrived, and I didn't care much for the villain. Good action scenes, though. And Mila Jovovich? Wow. Right in time for puberty.

But I digress - I'm a little lost. What does that have to do with this?
 
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Lollerskates

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that when people are talking about a geologic record, they're talking about something someone wrote down. Is that what you're saying the 'geologic record' is?


If I am being honest, I have no idea what people are saying when they spout geological record. That is why I bring up petroglyphs. I am not speaking for AV, but I agree with him when I bring up dead/decayed records. I don't know. I am trying to cover all bases because I do not assume. We can argue specifics later.
 
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selfinflikted

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Heh.

Like I said before, don't diminish yourself as a human. Do you have hands? Do you have eyes? Do you have a brain? Do you have 10 fingers?

Then you should be able to google everything I said to disprove me (or vindicate me.) I BEG you to prove me wrong (or right.) Go to school/MIT courseworks, become an "expert," and prove me wrong (or right). Superfluous claptrap ad hominem does not impress me. Stop being lazy; do work on google at least. Then come to me with an argument. I am all for intellectual debate.

You made the claim, you produce the evidence. This is not unreasonable. Besides, I'm here for the lulz.
 
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selfinflikted

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If I am being honest, I have no idea what people are saying when they spout geological record. That is why I bring up petroglyphs. I am not speaking for AV, but I agree with him when I bring up dead/decayed records. I don't know. I am trying to cover all bases because I do not assume. We can argue specifics later.

Oh dear god. He DOES think it's a written record. :doh:
 
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Lollerskates

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I've seen it. Thought it was okay. Maybe a little too flashy; I didn't care for the design too much, just too...gaudy. I want to say gaudy. And I thought the setup was a bit contrived, and I didn't care much for the villain. Good action scenes, though. And Mila Jovovich? Wow. Right in time for puberty.

But I digress - I'm a little lost. What does that have to do with this?

LOL you are disrespectful.

Nevermind the point (it will create more argument.) I am stuck on your synopsis of the movie. I thought it was great :(.

Hi-five for $10 words (you know what I am talking about.) I am glad people still use them.
 
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lasthero

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LOL you are disrespectful.

Really? I honestly wasn't trying to be, I apologize if I came off that way.

Nevermind the point (it will create more argument.) I am stuck on your synopsis of the movie. I thought it was great .

I mean, it was okay. For me, it's one of those movies that when you have the TV on while you're doing some work on the computer, you turn it TNT and it's playing - you check the other channels first, see if anything better is on, and if there's not, you go back and you watch it so you can have background noise.

You know. One of those movies.

Hi-five for $10 words (you know what I am talking about.)

I think I do. Every once in a while, words like that pop up in my head and I like to use them.
 
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lasthero

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If I am being honest, I have no idea what people are saying when they spout geological record.

They're talking about strata.

Geologic record - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

layers_from_parks.jpg


The order in which layers are laid down over time. It's not a record that depends on anyone doing anything - even if human beings never walked this planet, there would still be a geologic record.
 
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Lollerskates

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You made the claim, you produce the evidence. This is not unreasonable. Besides, I'm here for the lulz.

Dude if you are here for teh lulz then you aren't an intellectual priority - not because you aren't intelligent, but because you are here for teh lulz.

As I said before, people can be lazy; we are in the age of google. You can look up the intricacies of Maxwell's Equations on Wiki right now; I had to go to school for that. Google/MIT open Courseworks are out there. The "you made the claim; you provide the proof" argument is ridiculous to me. If you appreciation your own advancement in knowledge, nothing would stop you from finding the Truth. That means someone saying "seemingly ridiculous" wouldn't stop you from finding it out yourself. Google is your friend. Encyclopedias are your friend. There is no excuse for ignorance.
 
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AV1611VET

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No, you are very much so reaching, and obtuse. Where did I say anything about written record? Quote me. I'll wait.
Wikipedia says:
The geologic record in stratigraphy, paleontology and other natural sciences refers to the entirety of the layers of rock strata - deposits laid down in volcanism or by sediment deposition of weathering detritus (clays, sands etc.) including all its fossil content and the information it yields about the history of the Earth: its past climate, geography, geology and the evolution of life on its surface.

Jesus makes a good point about stones ...

Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

If the stones don't attest to God, and what He has done, then geologists need to keep working.

In addition, John the [fundamental, independent] Baptist said ...

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

A clear reference to the instant creation of life.
 
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bhsmte

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Dude if you are here for teh lulz then you aren't an intellectual priority - not because you aren't intelligent, but because you are here for teh lulz.

As I said before, people can be lazy; we are in the age of google. You can look up the intricacies of Maxwell's Equations on Wiki right now; I had to go to school for that. Google/MIT open Courseworks are out there. The "you made the claim; you provide the proof" argument is ridiculous to me. If you appreciation your own advancement in knowledge, nothing would stop you from finding the Truth. That means someone saying "seemingly ridiculous" wouldn't stop you from finding it out yourself. Google is your friend. Encyclopedias are your friend. There is no excuse for ignorance.

How can you be a scientist and state producing evidence for your claim is ridiculous? Does this excuse work in your professional life?
 
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keith99

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Why is there no geological record? EVERYONE DIED EXCEPT EIGHT PEOPLE. And there are petroglyphs. How much more doom do you want? They made petryglyphs because they figured those would survive. Even submerged rock is still ROCK with engravings.

Wow, just wow.

So you have no idea what the Geologic Record is.

And what 'They' made petroglyphs 'because they figured those would survive'? Surely not Noah and his clan as they were building a ark. And just as surely no one else as everyone Noah told mocked him.

Or do you think as the rain started falling someone said Oh ^$$*(& Noah was right, better make some rock carvings that might survive rather than trying to find a boat or even just something that floats for a slim chance to survive.

Heck thinking about it just how long did the Voyage of Columbus take? Or several other long voyages. Why wouldn't some sailor just starting out on a long voyage survive?
 
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Lollerskates

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Really? I honestly wasn't trying to be, I apologize if I came off that way.

No no, "disrespectful" for me is a comedic way of saying "oh no you didn't."



I mean, it was okay. For me, it's one of those movies that when you have the TV on while you're doing some work on the computer, you turn it TNT and it's playing - you check the other channels first, see if anything better is on, and if there's not, you go back and you watch it so you can have background noise.

You know. One of those movies.

sigh. I do know those movies. I still watch them lol.

But I thought the fifth element was totes :(



I think I do. Every once in a while, words like that pop up in my head and I like to use them.

Me likewise.
 
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