What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

[StormHawk]

I see nothing there about them claiming to feed the hungry.

Then you need to get your eyes tested. Try reading v44 again, noting every word.

"Then shall they (the goats) also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"

They are protesting "when didn't we" do these things because they were involved in "charity" works.
They had a wrong idea of who Jesus brethren are so they got it wrong.

Jesus makes the point that they never fed his brethen, who, like him are from above, born again, spiritual people with spiritual appetite and needs.

Huh? What they didn't know is that they had "fed Jesus". So they asked when they had fed Jesus, and Jesus explains that they had "fed him" when they had fed his brothers.

That's right, and who does Jesus say are his brothers?

How does one become one?

Do you believe a person needs to be born again to be one?

If so, when is a person born again?

And how come the "sheep" didn't realise they were doing it (see vv35-39 of the parable)?

Nowhere do the sheep say they aren't aware of having fed his brothers. Nowhere.

See above, again, get your eyes tested.

Oh puhleeze! So every time you find Jesus talking about feeding he is talking figuratively? How do you know he never ever talked about physically feeding?

Jesus commission to Peter (and all disciples) is to feed his lambs, sheep, you seriously believe that he gave his Life & his Spirit so that we would have dinner parties or run food banks for Christians?
Feeding non-Christians like the goats did isn't good enough?

Good question: Why did Jesus die?

I have no idea why the crucifixion would make it easier for God to forgive. One would think if God wanted to forgive, he would simply do it, and not wait until we first killed his son.

You don't understand why Jesus died yet you presume to understand Jesus calling to his followers!

In Matthew 25:46 (in the parable we are looking at) it says, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

If the soul is destroyed, how are they being eternally punished?
The punishment (destruction) is eternal, not the punishing.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Then you need to get your eyes tested. Try reading v44 again, noting every word.

"Then shall they (the goats) also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"

They are protesting "when didn't we" do these things because they were involved in "charity" works.

I checked my eyes. They are working fine.

Now please show me where Matthew 25:44-46 says anything about the goats being involved in "charity" works.

Matthew 25:45 says of the goats, " Inasmuch as ye did it not"

Jesus says they did it not.
Jesus says they did it not.
Jesus says they did it not.

They did it not.
They did it not.
They did it not.

Please explain how you get from "They did it not" to "They did it"

And you think I need new spectacles?

You don't understand why Jesus died yet you presume to understand Jesus calling to his followers!

But do you understand why Jesus had to die? If God wanted to forgive, why didn't he just forgive? Why did he decide he would not forgive until we first killed his son? How does that make any sense at all? How can killing his son make it easier for God to forgive?

 

[StormHawk]

But do you understand why Jesus had to die? If God wanted to forgive, why didn't he just forgive? Why did he decide he would not forgive until we first killed his son? How does that make any sense at all? How can killing his son make it easier for God to forgive?

If God just said, "I forgive sin", many people would sin all the more.
Mankind needs something better than sin. Jesus gave his live to make that available. That is what feeds, clothes and frees the soul to satisfaction such that people have power over sin.

Please explain how you get from "They did it not" to "They did it"

I can't do it any more plainly.
I see you put "engineer" as occupation. Well if you want to understand how something works you can take it apart, as you have attempted to do with this passage but have put it together again leaving some parts left over.

I can say no more that I have already, I'm moving on.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Mankind needs something better than sin. Jesus gave his live to make that available. That is what feeds, clothes and frees the soul to satisfaction such that people have power over sin.

If God wants to give us better life why didn't he just do it?

Why would God say he wants to give us new life, but he can't do it to us unless we first kill his son? I cannot understand why killing God's son would make it easier for God to give us new life.

How can God possibly say that he wants to feed our souls, but he won't do it unless we first kill his son.

If killing God's son made all this possible, are you glad that they killed God's son?

If nobody else was going to kill God's son, would you have done it yourself so that people could get all these blessings?

 

[doubtingmerle]

What do you mean by "get to heaven"?
Do you think that dead people either go to heaven or go to hell?
There is not really scriptural support for that.

Nor any physical evidence for dead people going to heaven or hell either. After all, our thoughts reside in our brains, and when the brain has disintegrated, how can the thoughts, memories and emotions survive.

I believe that this life is our only chance. We need to make the most out or life here on earth.

Others do believe in an afterlife, one that has enormous consequences if it is true. So I am curious, if there is an afterlife with some going to heaven and some to hell, what determines our final destination? Judging by this thread, we have little more than wild guesses as to what one needs to do to assure a future in heaven.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Jesus was actually asked this question. He gave two answers that I'm aware of. One was to follow the commandments. (Mark 10:27 ff) However he went on to call the person to leave everything and follow him.

The other answer was “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” (Luke 10:27)

Well I suppose two conflicting answers is less of a problem than dozens of conflicting answers as I see here.

Since both Mark 10 and Luke 10 are telling the same story, why in Mark does Jesus say the answer is to keep the commandments, and in Luke say the answer is to love?

 

[doubtingmerle]

My answer emphasized the verb: accept ....
That is exactly the answer to your question.

Ah an exact answer--"accept".

One question. What do you mean by accept?

If I am playing Monopoly and I accept a "get out of Jail free" card that is offered to me, is that basically the same thing as the "accept" to which you refer?

 

[paul becke]

Thanks but I don't have time to listen to a long story.

Just the facts please.

What must one do to go to heaven?

Read the brief account of the Last Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46. In short, go to the help of those in need. Crying, Lord! Lord! will be to no avail. 'Love is the fulness of the law'. 'It is mercy I want, not sacrifice'.


There has been a long-standing Pelagian trend in the Catholic Church and others, indicating a reliance on rules. God requires us to do our best to keep the Commandments, but ultimately only his mercy, through Christ's sacrifice on the cross, can gain for us our salvation. There are other churches of course, which go to the other extreme, virtually stating that their adherents are already saved, so they can't sin!!!

If you've led a dissolute, atheistic life, as Ian in the video had, say the Lord's Prayer, beg God to forgive you, and be prepared there and then to forgive people you feel have acted very badly towards you; which latter, in any case, holds good for us all.

 

[paul becke]

Nor any physical evidence for dead people going to heaven or hell either. After all, our thoughts reside in our brains, and when the brain has disintegrated, how can the thoughts, memories and emotions survive.

I believe that this life is our only chance. We need to make the most out or life here on earth.

Others do believe in an afterlife, one that has enormous consequences if it is true. So I am curious, if there is an afterlife with some going to heaven and some to hell, what determines our final destination? Judging by this thread, we have little more than wild guesses as to what one needs to do to assure a future in heaven.

If you don't make the time to watch the video, or other shorter ones you can find on YouTube, it will be your loss. Our thoughts do not reside in our brain, as this blog explains (in the second article by cardiologist, Pim Van Lommel).

The Bridge: A Science and Spirituality Resource: Mysticism

Dr Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and neurophysiologist is probably the most eminent expert on these matters associated with NDEs, and has written and talked about them extensively.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Read the brief account of the Last Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46. In short, go to the help of those in need. Crying, Lord! Lord! will be to no avail. 'Love is the fulness of the law'. 'It is mercy I want, not sacrifice'.

Ah, yes Matthew 25, the passage that StormHawk says is a last judgement based on whether they spoke in tongues! (I am not making this stuff up.) StormHawk insists that the goats in that story were charitable, but they suffer judgement because they didn't speak in tongues. And if we don't see it the way he sees it, he says we need to check our vision!

Go figure.

You and I can see that in Matthew 25 they are separated based on whether they were charitable to the poor.

 

[paul becke]

Ah, yes Matthew 25, the passage that StormHawk says is a last judgement based on whether they spoke in tongues! (I am not making this stuff up.) StormHawk insists that the goats in that story were charitable, but they suffer judgement because they didn't speak in tongues. And if we don't see it the way he sees it, he says we need to check our vision!

Go figure.

You and I can see that in Matthew 25 they are separated based on whether they were charitable to the poor.

Not encouraging! StormHawk's exegesis.

 

[paul becke]

The thing about a world-view is that, ultimately it is never changed merely by argument, which is why, if you serious about getting your faith back, you would do well to make the time to watch the best NDEs on such sites as YouTube.

The first thing that strikes you is that the genuine ones, the large majority - well, there's no actor who could put on an act as convincing as the display of emotion shown by NDEers, particularly, when recollecting their feeling of extraordinary unconditional love for them, emanating from God, usually Jesus. Your own emotions are naturally caught up to a degree as well.

It's what sells newspapers. It doesn't matter how daft, trivial or plain knavish the story they peddle, they know that if they can get the public worked up about it, either in favour of whoever they are building up, or against maybe the same person, they've decided to bring down, people will buy the newspaper to get the next instalment or another such story!

Our emotions, of course, are not unconnected with our desires. It just happens that God made the world to fit the wishful thinking he has placed in our own hearts. Why wouldn't he? Why, indeed, should the ultimate reality be cold, hard, ugly, not to be wished for, not to be hoped for?

In fact, not only has science proved theism to be correct, but Christianity, itself. If you want the layman's lowdown on that, a good book to read is: 'What your atheist professor doesn't know (but should)' by Stephen Joseph Williams.

 

[doubtingmerle]

if you serious about getting your faith back, you would do well to make the time to watch the best NDEs on such sites as YouTube.

I'm sure such experiences can be quite dramatic, but I doubt if this proves anything about an afterlife. The mind can do dramatic things, such as create all sorts of dreams. It is not surprising that if one's brain is nearly dead and comes back to life, that it vaguely recalls certain illusions during the experience. These can be amplified with what the person expected to see.

In fact, not only has science proved theism to be correct, but Christianity, itself. If you want the layman's lowdown on that, a good book to read is: 'What your atheist professor doesn't know (but should)' by Stephen Joseph Williams.

That could certainly make for some good topics for discussion.

But that is off the topic of this thread. This thread is about what a person would need to do to assure that he is going to heaven.

And it appears that there is very little agreement on how to answer that question.

 

[Everlasting33]

We get into Heaven by believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and this belief will be manifested in our obedience to His Word.

 

[Dan2255]

What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

I’m not an educated man as many on this site seem to be. I get your Question and understand what you want to know. We live in the time of the Father’s grace. He tells us that he loves the world so must that he sent his only begotten son into the world and has declared for whosoever believes in my Son shall have eternal life. This is the only way you will be able to be saved. This explanation is easy to understand. As the apostle wrote if any shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Call on his name to be saved and the Lord will do the rest.

 

[Dan2255]

What do you mean by "get to heaven"?
Do you think that dead people either go to heaven or go to hell?
There is not really scriptural support for that.

Or are you referring to salvation itself, which is not necessarily the same as going to heaven and occurs while one is living, and not merely after death?

Have you ever read when the apostle wrote that he looked into the this heaven and seen a man before Christ and one after Christ? Or have you ever read that Hell is delivered up to be judged before the great white throne judgment?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I think there is a huge plan set out by Jesus for a person to follow - which will lead more and more into heaven.

I think a person has to positively and repeatedly "want" to get away from God. I dont think you can have heaven without god, or god without heaven (although i think god is bigger than heaven).

I never understood the sacrifice idea - that we are all sinners and deserve gods wrath, which god decides to sacrifice his son instead so we dont have to pay ???? It doesnt make sense to me, although i know lot of people believe that about jesus.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I never understood the sacrifice idea - that we are all sinners and deserve gods wrath, which god decides to sacrifice his son instead so we dont have to pay ???? It doesnt make sense to me, although i know lot of people believe that about jesus.

Any parent knows that it will not make it easier for a person to forgive somebody if the offender first kills your son. But somehow we are supposed to believe that God has that trait that he does not forgive any other offenses unless somebody first kills his son.

 

[doubtingmerle]

We get into Heaven by believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and this belief will be manifested in our obedience to His Word.

Does believing in him as Lord mean doing everything he tells you to do? If so, then you get to heaven by doing everything he tell you to. That contrasts with those who say all you need to do is believe.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Any parent knows that it will not make it easier for a person to forgive somebody if the offender first kills your son. But somehow we are supposed to believe that God has that trait that

i think ancient people fully believed in the sacrifice system. i think ancient christians said to them, in their converting "if you still require a sacrifice, let it be christ.". Then, everyone took it to be the main point of christ's coming to earth.

i think the main point of his life was his teaching and work though.

just my humble opinion - what do i really know though??!!?!?!

he does not forgive any other offenses unless somebody first kills his son.

Do you really think this about god?

What do you really think about god??