All who are in church

[jamantc]

I attend a church were many members are intolerant to those who aren't Baptist. One member stated, "If they aren't Baptist they are wrong". Another member stated, "If they ain't Baptist they are going straight to hell anyway". I could go on and on with more quotes but won't. However, there is one quote I would like to ask your thoughts on. "Everyone in the church is saved". He wasn't talking just about our church, but the church in general. I have a friend that goes to church for one reason, his wife asked him to go so the kids would go. I know a girl in a church from my hometown that only goes to find a boyfriend. I know a guy in our church is open to that fact that he goes because it's good for his business. I could give more cases like this and am sure you could as well. I do not believe that all people who go or are members of a church are saved. What are your thoughts on this matter? And to make sure I let others know, yes I am now a member of a Baptist church, but I do believe there are people from all denominations who are going to heaven! I believe there will be folks from every nationality, tongue, and tribe and every denomination as well. But what are your thoughts on my question, "do you believe all in church are saved?"

 

[xTx]

I attend a church were many members are intolerant to those who aren't Baptist. One member stated, "If they aren't Baptist they are wrong". Another member stated, "If they ain't Baptist they are going straight to hell anyway". I could go on and on with more quotes but won't. However, there is one quote I would like to ask your thoughts on. "Everyone in the church is saved". He wasn't talking just about our church, but the church in general. I have a friend that goes to church for one reason, his wife asked him to go so the kids would go. I know a girl in a church from my hometown that only goes to find a boyfriend. I know a guy in our church is open to that fact that he goes because it's good for his business. I could give more cases like this and am sure you could as well. I do not believe that all people who go or are members of a church are saved. What are your thoughts on this matter? And to make sure I let others know, yes I am now a member of a Baptist church, but I do believe there are people from all denominations who are going to heaven! I believe there will be folks from every nationality, tongue, and tribe and every denomination as well. But what are your thoughts on my question, "do you believe all in church are saved?"

firstly I am not a Baptist.

Today, the bible verse that keeps popping into my mind are the following verses:

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.


Mark 12:31
And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.

Over the past few days, just like any other day, I met racist people who just do not like my race and people just being people.

I am happy to report I am fine and I very quickly forgave them all.

However, I feel sorry for the racist person because he has no love in him for those of a different race than him.

And, I feel sad that people took my words and changed or misintepreted my words and a vicious rumour has spread about me. When the words came back to me, it was absolutely opposite to what I actually said.

Anyway, I accept that these sort of things racism & words becoming something totally different from the original is part and parcel of life.

That is why I feel that what Jesus taught about love is so important.

The more we love, the more we forgive others and ourselves for any trespasses.

Back, to your question; are those in church saved?

My answer is nobody will actually know only God knows the person's inner thoughts.

We are not to judge another for with the same measurement we use on others, God will use the same measurement on us.

Please read up on what the Roman Catholic church believes regarding being saved. It is an eye opener. A very fair ideology.

Man cannot condemn another. That is why I do not support capital punishment.

Have a great day.

 

[USCGrad90]

I am a Southern Baptist, but I believe that focusing on any one denomination misses the point. While denominations have many different practices, the fundamental basis of belief should be on Scripture and not the practices of a certain church.
There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Simply being in or attending church does not equal salvation. So if someone says that being a "Baptist" is the only way to be saved - are they talking Southern Baptist, United Baptist, Freewill Baptist, etc...? God ultimately will judge us based on our faith in Christ and not necessarily our worship styles.

 

[Willie T]

What do you suppose the Bible meant when it said, "Work out your OWN salvation....?"

 

[USCGrad90]

What do you suppose the Bible meant when it said, "Work out your OWN salvation....?"

If you are referring to what Paul wrote in Phillipians 2: 12-13

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The "working out" that the Philippians are asked to do, then, is not to use their own innate abilities to accomplish their salvation, but to let God act in and through them. It reflects other writing by Paul, from Galatians 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Willie T]

If you are referring to what Paul wrote in Phillipians 2: 12-13

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The "working out" that the Philippians are asked to do, then, is not to use their own innate abilities to accomplish their salvation, but to let God act in and through them. It reflects other writing by Paul, from Galatians 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And, Jamantc, how would you see that as something you could reflect upon in this situation you find yourself in?

 

[jamantc]

Working out salvation is possible because it is God who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure. It is God who puts in us the desire to do His will, and He works in us to give us power to carry out His will. This is the merging of the Divine and the human. Salvation has different meanings all throughout the New Testament. In Philippians 1:28 salvation is the deliverance from prison while in 1:28 it refers the salvation of our souls. In this part of Philippians is appears that Paul is telling the Philippians to work out their problems that have arisen in the Philippian church. Which in that sense would apply greatly to the problem with others occurring in our church. For the record, this few is not out of line with Christians. If you do research, you will find this view I have stated on salvation to be inline with many Theologians and current pastors throughout the protestant world. I am reformed in my thoughts of scripture as well though .

xTx, while we know no one's heart, we can come to an honest conclusion from scripture as to whether one may be saved or not. Scripture gives clear indication to those who are saved and those who aren't. As for judging, the word itself means to discern. Repeatedly we are told in scripture to have a spirit of discernment so that we know the false teachers and the unbelievers. Without proper scriptural discernment, we can fall prey to every whim that calls itself Christianity and be deceived. Although we cannot judge a person's heart, we can judge their actions and use scripture for rebuking, reproof, and correction but it must be done with love and the guidance of the Holy Spirit or otherwise it is wrong and scripture supports this statement to the fullest.

USCgrad90, yes, this is a southern Baptist church, part of the convention and all.


Anyway, I am not sure I got a direct answer from anyone who posted on the original question, "are all in church saved?". I still say no based upon many I know who come to church for many reasons but the right one, to worship Christ without other believers

 

[Willie T]

Working out salvation is possible because it is God who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure. It is God who puts in us the desire to do His will, and He works in us to give us power to carry out His will. This is the merging of the Divine and the human. Salvation has different meanings all throughout the New Testament. In Philippians 1:28 salvation is the deliverance from prison while in 1:28 it refers the salvation of our souls. In this part of Philippians is appears that Paul is telling the Philippians to work out their problems that have arisen in the Philippian church. Which in that sense would apply greatly to the problem with others occurring in our church. For the record, this few is not out of line with Christians. If you do research, you will find this view I have stated on salvation to be inline with many Theologians and current pastors throughout the protestant world. I am reformed in my thoughts of scripture as well though .

xTx, while we know no one's heart, we can come to an honest conclusion from scripture as to whether one may be saved or not. Scripture gives clear indication to those who are saved and those who aren't. As for judging, the word itself means to discern. Repeatedly we are told in scripture to have a spirit of discernment so that we know the false teachers and the unbelievers. Without proper scriptural discernment, we can fall prey to every whim that calls itself Christianity and be deceived. Although we cannot judge a person's heart, we can judge their actions and use scripture for rebuking, reproof, and correction but it must be done with love and the guidance of the Holy Spirit or otherwise it is wrong and scripture supports this statement to the fullest.

USCgrad90, yes, this is a southern Baptist church, part of the convention and all.


Anyway, I am not sure I got a direct answer from anyone who posted on the original question, "are all in church saved?". I still say no based upon many I know who come to church for many reasons but the right one, to worship Christ without other believers

Me neither.

How does your little theology lesson relate to how you think or respond to what others in your church claim?

To put in plainer language... What's it to you, or how you relate to other people in other denominations, what some Baptists say or what anyone here says?

You seem to want people here to give you an answer as to how you are supposed to think. How's that work?

Are you in church to inspect their fruit, and make judgment calls on them, or are you there for what you say they SHOULD be there for, but aren't?

 

[jamantc]

Why would I want someone to think for me when obviously it appears I can do that on my own? I asked for others opinion on whether they though all in church was saved. As for my view on theology, it reflects all I view scripture to be and each person's view of theology of scripture should do the same for them. I am sorry that you and I got off on a bad start and if somehow I have offended you, a brother in Christ, I do greatly apologize and seek your forgiveness? I was asking for others views to a simple question to see if other Baptist or denominations had the same issues in the churches they attend. Again, if I have somehow offended you with my view or my question I deeply apologize and seek your forgiveness in humbleness and humility

 

[Willie T]

You didn't offend me. I just saw that you wrote this......
http://www.christianforums.com/t7788142-3/#post64528592
.... and it didn't make any sense to see what you posted here.

 

[Willie T]

The point is... Of course any of the stuff any of us might choose to point out is happening in every church in the nation (well, almost every church), so why look at it, or try to develop conversations about it?

I think most of us have far more than we can handle just to keep ourselves focused on what matters to our lives.

 

[jamantc]

You didn't offend me. I just saw that you wrote this......
.... and it didn't make any sense to see what you posted here.

I can understand that, but neither are truly in opposition to one another. I wasn't referring to dress here, but to the reasons many are in church and that many there aren't saved. Let me try to put it another way:
If they are in church for the wrong reasons and we can obviously discern they aren't saved, why would we claim all there are saved. In remote jungles of Africa, if they are in church you can pretty much believe all there are saved because there, they are fighting more than animals in the bush, in many places Christianity can get them killed due to other religions in the area

 

[Willie T]

It's kind of like saying.... "Say, Brother... I noticed you were looking around when all of us were supposed to have our heads bowed and eyes closed."

(BTW... I do not believe there is any such thing as an accepted or approved position of prayer.)

 

[jamantc]

The point is... Of course any of the stuff any of us might choose to point out is happening in every church in the nation (well, almost every church), so why look at it, or try to develop conversations about it?

I think most of us have far more than we can handle just to keep ourselves focused on what matters to our lives.

I understand that, but sometimes it is good know if it is a condensed problem or a larger problem. Had not the reformers taken this same view against the Catholic church, we would still be in the dark ages
We all do have a lot on our plates, but each lost soul should matter enough to be concerned why they are there if it is not to seek Christ so that we can help them see that is why they should be there

 

[jamantc]

It's kind of like saying.... "Say, Brother... I noticed you were looking around when all of us were supposed to have our heads bowed and eyes closed."

(BTW... I do not believe there is any such thing as an accepted or approved position of prayer.)

I agree on the prayer position lol
I actually don't look around during service time, I have my nose planted on the pastor and taking notes so that I can match his words against scripture. These are things that happen outside that time frame and has been made clear by people when talking to them

 

[Willie T]

There is an older couple in our church (actually about my age) who both knit during the entire service. What would be most people's immediate reaction to that? (Remember, I said "immediate" reaction.)

 

[jamantc]

Hear is what I read once about such situations: If we come to church to do anything with our time other than fellowship with other believers and glorify Him, we must do so in our full attention and with a reverence so deep that we should reflect the seraphim in Isaiah and praise God and sing Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty). I know that doesn't answer the question or perhaps it does in a round about way

 

[USCGrad90]

USCgrad90, yes, this is a southern Baptist church, part of the convention and all.

Anyway, I am not sure I got a direct answer from anyone who posted on the original question, "are all in church saved?". I still say no based upon many I know who come to church for many reasons but the right one, to worship Christ without other believers

Sorry to hear that many people in your church are condemning other denominations. My experience has been that there are many people who know "what" they believe, but not "why." A lot of Southern Baptists also don't know the background of the church and the racism that was once central to SBC.

I thought I addressed your original question: "There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Simply being in or attending church does not equal salvation."

So - to put it plainly- NO - everyone in the church is not necessarily saved. Many people come the church as a social ritual and never commit their lives to Christ. I don't think it's our place to judge others, but if we see areas of concern with a fellow member, we should try to support them and address their needs. God places us where he needs us and if you are seeing things there - maybe you have been placed there to raise these questions and concerns. Starting with the pastor of the church might be a good place to address your concerns.

 

[jamantc]

Sorry to hear that many people in your church are condemning other denominations. My experience has been that there are many people who know "what" they believe, but not "why." A lot of Southern Baptists also don't know the background of the church and the racism that was once central to SBC.

I thought I addressed your original question: "There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Simply being in or attending church does not equal salvation."

So - to put it plainly- NO - everyone in the church is not necessarily saved. Many people come the church as a social ritual and never commit their lives to Christ. I don't think it's our place to judge others, but if we see areas of concern with a fellow member, we should try to support them and address their needs. God places us where he needs us and if you are seeing things there - maybe you have been placed there to raise these questions and concerns. Starting with the pastor of the church might be a good place to address your concerns.

I am sorry that I missed your answer when I first read your statement, I went back and reread it and saw that you had, again, sorry . Yes, I agree that we are all placed where God wants us to accomplish his will and purpose. Yes, I do agree that we should not judge a person, but we should discern their actions and motives as to not allow that will which bring down the body, Paul and Peter both had to confront that as well. Yes, I do agree it starts with the pastor and bringing things before him to see if it should go to the deacons and elders. I have just read your reply since coming home from church, and actually have already done what you suggested early in the evening in private conversation with my pastor. We all seek each other's advice because sometimes we need it to help us see what we are missing and to help us correct it. We finished up our class tonight in our CLU classes for Wednesday night and the lesson we had tonight brought this same issue up front and personal and others in our church saw that it has been going and have chosen to sweep it under the rug (I did not now this prior to class tonight), but tonight they had to deal with it front and center. Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated my friend!

 

[Bluelion]

I attend a church were many members are intolerant to those who aren't Baptist. One member stated, "If they aren't Baptist they are wrong". Another member stated, "If they ain't Baptist they are going straight to hell anyway". I could go on and on with more quotes but won't. However, there is one quote I would like to ask your thoughts on. "Everyone in the church is saved". He wasn't talking just about our church, but the church in general. I have a friend that goes to church for one reason, his wife asked him to go so the kids would go. I know a girl in a church from my hometown that only goes to find a boyfriend. I know a guy in our church is open to that fact that he goes because it's good for his business. I could give more cases like this and am sure you could as well. I do not believe that all people who go or are members of a church are saved. What are your thoughts on this matter? And to make sure I let others know, yes I am now a member of a Baptist church, but I do believe there are people from all denominations who are going to heaven! I believe there will be folks from every nationality, tongue, and tribe and every denomination as well. But what are your thoughts on my question, "do you believe all in church are saved?"

There is The true Church, which is the body of Christ, and then their is the Church made of wood and stone. In The Body Of Christ all are saved, or they would not be part of The Body. However in the church of wood and stone the bible tells us there are weeds among the wheat. That the devil planted them their, and they will be separated from the true Church at harvest the day of Judgement.

Mathew 13:24 NLT is which i am referring to.

24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.

27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”

The wheat are the children of God, the weeds the children of satan. The harvest is judgement day, the barn is heaven, the fire is hell.

Peace and Love
blu