Fullness of the Gentiles

[parousia70]

The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.

 

[ebedmelech]

Parousia, I think "fullness" has to be looked at contextually.

Take a look at the definitions of fullness via "Blue Letter Bible"

Greek Lexicon :: G4138 (NASB)

The meaning of "fullness" is based on how it's used in context. In the case of Romans 11:25 quantity is in view (though that quantity is unknown to us).

 

[Tigger45]

I always assumed it meant completeness. Not sure just took it for granted.

 

[parousia70]

The meaning of "fullness" is based on how it's used in context. In the case of Romans 11:25 quantity is in view (though that quantity is unknown to us).

Quantity is in view based on what? Not any context in Romans 11.

In Romans 11, Fullness is used contextually to mean the opposite of "hardening", "failure" and/or "Fall"... the definition of Fullness does not Change from Romans 11:12 to Romans 11:25.

Quantity is NOT in view contextually in Romans 11.

 

[Time Watcher]

Romans 11 is all about national identity and the contrast between Israel and the Gentile nations

Israel has been set aside because the nation rejected the Lord in the first century and still does the same today

During this period up until now the Gentiles of the nations are being added to the Lord's ecclesia, but this adding will cease "when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" .... added

Then He will turn His attention to His nation of Israel and a believing remnant part of the nation will be saved

.... this is quite clear and irrefutable

 

[nephilimiyr]

I always assumed it meant completeness. Not sure just took it for granted.

Parousia, I think "fullness" has to be looked at contextually.

Take a look at the definitions of fullness via "Blue Letter Bible"

Greek Lexicon :: G4138 (NASB)

The meaning of "fullness" is based on how it's used in context. In the case of Romans 11:25 quantity is in view (though that quantity is unknown to us).

Right, completeness, and completeness doesn't have to have anything to do with numbers. And yes, context is always important.

 

[parousia70]

Then He will turn His attention to His nation of Israel and a believing remnant part of the nation will be saved

.... this is quite clear and irrefutable

Is this the Same Remnant that were alive in Paul's Day that he cites here:

Romans 11:5

5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Or was that a different remnant?

 

[ebedmelech]

Quantity is in view based on what? Not any context in Romans 11.

In Romans 11, Fullness is used contextually to mean the opposite of "hardening", "failure" and/or "Fall"... the definition of Fullness does not Change from Romans 11:12 to Romans 11:25.

Quantity is NOT in view contextually in Romans 11.

I don't think so. Romans 11:25, 26
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
This passage is referring to the partial hardening of the Jews (to the gospel), until the "fullness" of Gentiles have been saved.

This is why Christ is currently a stumbling block to the Jews as 1 Coritnhians 1:23 makes that point of preaching the cross.

This is referring to the quantity or completeness of Gentiles being saved. God will then pour out on the Jews and they will believe the gospel in great numbers.

 

[bibletruth469]

Romans 11 is all about national identity and the contrast between Israel and the Gentile nations Israel has been set aside because the nation rejected the Lord in the first century and still does the same today During this period up until now the Gentiles of the nations are being added to the Lord's ecclesia, but this adding will cease "when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" .... added Then He will turn His attention to His nation of Israel and a believing remnant part of the nation will be saved .... this is quite clear and irrefutable

I agree. The fullness of the Gentiles in rom 11:25 is referring to a time when the church age closes and the last gentile will be saved at the rapture of the church. I believe that there is a number that only God knows and when that number is reached , that is the fullness of the Gentiles . Therefore , when the rapture happens and the church age closes , God will redirect his focus on the nation of Israel.

 

[Time Watcher]

No question about this

 

[ebedmelech]

No question about this

Plenty of questions...especially when Jesus NEVER speaks of anything except resurrection ON THE LAST DAY!

He says it 4 times in John 6. Furthermore, close examination of EVERY verse dispensationalism trie to interpret as a rapture can be proven to be the LAST DAY!

 

[thesunisout]

The interpretation given by the OP is not correct:

Luke 21:24

They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The times or fullness of the Gentiles refers to the ending of the period of time that the Gentile kingdoms have ruled the earth. We see this in Daniels prophecy:

Dan 2:32 The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze,
Dan 2:33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
Dan 2:34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
Dan 2:35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

The image represents the succession of Gentile kingdoms and the stone represents Jesus Christ who shatters the power of the Gentile kingdom and establishes His millennial reign here on Earth. When this time is about to come, Israel will be restored back to God and many Jews will confess Jesus is the Messiah:

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Romans 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
Romans 11:27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

This will happen during the tribulation, likely just before the second coming.

 

[bibletruth469]

The interpretation given by the OP is not correct: Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. The times or fullness of the Gentiles refers to the ending of the period of time that the Gentile kingdoms have ruled the earth. We see this in Daniels prophecy: Dan 2:32 The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, Dan 2:33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. Dan 2:34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Dan 2:35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. The image represents the succession of Gentile kingdoms and the stone represents Jesus Christ who shatters the power of the Gentile kingdom and establishes His millennial reign here on Earth. When this time is about to come, Israel will be restored back to God and many Jews will confess Jesus is the Messiah: Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Romans 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; Romans 11:27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins." This will happen during the tribulation, likely just before the second coming.

Luke 21:24 is a different context than in rom 11:25 . They are both mentioning different things, times of the Gentiles and fullness of the Gentiles. These are different and need to be interpreted according to what it is talking about .

 

[Time Watcher]

They are different

The fullness is the completing of the adding of the Lord's ecclesia from the gentiles

The time of the gentiles involve the rule of the Gentiles in contrast with Israel

This time of the gentiles will end at Armageddon .... Revelation 11:2 with be the last 42 months of gentile rule on the earth

 

[thesunisout]

They are different

The fullness is the completing of the adding of the Lord's ecclesia from the gentiles

The time of the gentiles involve the rule of the Gentiles in contrast with Israel

This time of the gentiles will end at Armageddon .... Revelation 11:2 with be the last 42 months of gentile rule on the earth

I think they're both referring to the same event. The times of the Gentiles are ended when the Gentiles no longer have power over Israel. During the end times, the Antichrist will rule over Israel from the final Gentile kingdom which is represented in Daniels interpretation of the image as the feet mixed with iron and clay. Until the Antichrist is defeated, it could not be said that the Gentiles will no longer trample upon Israel. The times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled when the Antichrist is defeated because that will end his rule over Israel. This coincides with Pauls description of the fullness of the Gentile, which says Israel will be saved when the Messiah begins His millennial reign on Earth:

"The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"

So, we see in both contexts that the coming of Christ will be what triggers both events so they must be the same event.

 

[coraline]

By the full number of Gentiles coming into the New Covenant, Paul was speaking of his day Gentiles that were grafted into the Olive tree bc of faith.

The elect remnant of Hebrews (Jacob), Paul predicted to be saved before the destruction of Jerusalem & the temple (the harlot city). Some of the elect (true Israel- the Israel of God elect Jews) still had not repented at the time of Paul's writing.

"How great their fulfillment be" in Romans 11 proves this point.

Paul had written ( or had dictated) the book Romans about 58 AD.

Jerusalem was destroyed in AD70. And Paul would die before its destruction.

But his prophecy for the elect remnant was assured from God.

 

[thesunisout]

By the full number of Gentiles coming into the New Covenant, Paul was speaking of his day Gentiles that were grafted into the Olive tree bc of faith.

The elect remnant of Hebrews (Jacob), Paul predicted to be saved before the destruction of Jerusalem & the temple (the harlot city). Some of the elect (true Israel- the Israel of God elect Jews) still had not repented at the time of Paul's writing.

"How great their fulfillment be" in Romans 11 proves this point.

Paul had written ( or had dictated) the book Romans about 58 AD.

Jerusalem was destroyed in AD70. And Paul would die before its destruction.

But his prophecy for the elect remnant was assured from God.

The gentiles were already grafted in when Paul wrote that. This verse:

Rom 11:12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

is referring to when the jews will be grafted back in. They will be grafted back in when the partial hardening is taken away. If you are talking about replacement theology there is no basis for that in scripture. Paul warns against those who think the Jews have been permanently excluded:

Romans 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Romans 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Romans 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

 

[Time Watcher]

Replacement theologists need to consider Paul's revealed warning and take it seriously

 

[parousia70]

Fullness is the Opposite of Fall, and not a numeric value.
Separation Theologists need to take this clear teaching of Paul's seriously.

The EVERLASTING Gospel, which SOLE PURPOSE FOR EXISTENCE is to call sinners to salvation is, well, EVERLASTING. It has no expiration date.

Those who call for an end to the purpose of the EVERLASTING Gospel will be disappointed. The notion that once the "last gentile" converts to Christianity the Gospel ceases to serve it's everlasting purpose is completely foreign to Christ and the Apostles.

Fullness is the opposite of Fall, not a numeric value.
Without Question.

 

[coraline]

The gentiles were already grafted in when Paul wrote that. This verse:

Rom 11:12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

is referring to when the jews will be grafted back in. They will be grafted back in when the partial hardening is taken away. If you are talking about replacement theology there is no basis for that in scripture. Paul warns against those who think the Jews have been permanently excluded:

Romans 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Romans 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Romans 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

Yes, I know, those "gentiles" had been grafted in already- as Paul stated.

But I disagree with you on the small elect remnant of Israel - which I stated would be grafted in by God before the destruction of the harlot city.

Your mistake is that Israel wasn't "partially hardened" in the sense that they were on the fence or 50% hardened.

The meaning of the text (consulting the O.T.) also, is that God hardened most of national Israel from old- & they would remain forever hardened.

The "part" of Israel that God didn't harden was His elect remnant of Jewish believers.