Richard Dawkins Explains Why He Doesn't Debate Young Earth Creationists

[KWCrazy]

Why is that arrogant?

ar·ro·gant [ar-uh-guhnt]
adjective
1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

The atheists I've seen in most are arrogant and self aggrandizing about how much smarter they are than others, and condescending to those who do not believe as they do. Interestingly, the Bible in Psalms 14:1 calls them "fools."

I've personally seen lightning, but I don't believe in Zeus. Am I arrogant for not believing in Zeus?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but lighting is a natural process. Nobody educated beyond the second grade would consider lighting a miracle.

This, this and this could be considered miracles.

Why would they be lies?

Because they wouldn't be true.

Do you know any intelligent atheists?

Some. Despite what atheists repeatedly claim, there is no link between intellect and faith.

I've experienced what you would call the presence of God. I know what it's like to be a committed believer.

Then you know that atheists are hopelessly wrong. There IS a God; whether people like it or not; whether they have faith in Him or not.

Evolution has been shown to be true. It's as silly to argue that as to argue germ theory.

No it hasn't, actually. It's a theory that has never been observed. Tests to prove it happens only proved it doesn't. You could say that it's been proved to your satisfaction, but I could also say that existence of God and the veracity of the Scriptures have been proved to my satisfaction.

Why would God want humans to believe in him without enough evidence?

Enough evidence for whom? He sent His Son to die on a cross for you. It was witnessed by thousands, and many who witnessed His death and resurrection were tortured and killed rather than to recant their testimony. Beyond that, you yourself have said, "I've experienced what you would call the presence of God." If you have personal contact with God, what more evidence do you need?

If there were a God, he would understand why having justified beliefs is good.

You just testified you once knew Him, now you say "IF there were a God...???? And we are supposed to take your post seriously when you disagree with yourself in the same post?

I'd say I don't believe in God, and that there is probably no Christian God.

I'd say you need counseling. You say there is probably no Christian God after you have already experienced His presence? That is a contradiction in logic bordering on delusion.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take your position very seriously. You're contradicting yourself on the core principle of your argument.

 

[bhsmte]

ar·ro·gant [ar-uh-guhnt]
adjective
1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

The atheists I've seen in most are arrogant and self aggrandizing about how much smarter they are than others, and condescending to those who do not believe as they do. Interestingly, the Bible in Psalms 14:1 calls them "fools."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but lighting is a natural process. Nobody educated beyond the second grade would consider lighting a miracle.

This, this and this could be considered miracles.


Because they wouldn't be true.

Some. Despite what atheists repeatedly claim, there is no link between intellect and faith.

Then you know that atheists are hopelessly wrong. There IS a God; whether people like it or not; whether they have faith in Him or not.

No it hasn't, actually. It's a theory that has never been observed. Tests to prove it happens only proved it doesn't. You could say that it's been proved to your satisfaction, but I could also say that existence of God and the veracity of the Scriptures have been proved to my satisfaction.

Enough evidence for whom? He sent His Son to die on a cross for you. It was witnessed by thousands, and many who witnessed His death and resurrection were tortured and killed rather than to recant their testimony. Beyond that, you yourself have said, "I've experienced what you would call the presence of God." If you have personal contact with God, what more evidence do you need?

You just testified you once knew Him, now you say "IF there were a God...???? And we are supposed to take your post seriously when you disagree with yourself in the same post?

I'd say you need counseling. You say there is probably no Christian God after you have already experienced His presence? That is a contradiction in logic bordering on delusion.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take your position very seriously. You're contradicting yourself on the core principle of your argument.

Sorry KW, but people can be believers at one point of there life and maybe even feel they experienced God and then come to the realization it was only their mind that developed the experience.

It happens all the time, and I would add, admitting you were wrong about something, is actually a sign of mental health, not someone who needs counseling. You see, it is usually those who create things in their own mind that is absent of any reality and can never let go no matter what, are the one's that may benefit from laying on the couch.

Some very dedicated believers have changed their minds about a belief in God:

The Clergy Project - Testimonials

 

[KWCrazy]

Ah, yes. Those ignorant, well-educated, philosophical atheists. How lucky that you are devoid of arrogance.

Thank you for proving my point by demonstrating both ignorance and arrogance. You are ignorant in your assumption that I am not well educated and arrogant in your insinuation that you are, as an atheist, smarter and better educated. Your post proves exactly what I described. Thank you for validating my argument so well.

This is a false alternative. Miracles could come from a pantheon of gods and goddesses, for example.

Pointless. Atheists don't believe in any God, let alone gods or goddesses. Miracles are violations of natural law. Do you agree that there are supernatural forces able to violate natural law, or do you contend that no miracle has ever happened?

I love Christian humility.

It's not a matter of humility, it's a question of logic. If God exists, as I contend, then to know Him is to possess the greatest knowledge of the universe. To not know Him or to deny Him conversely is the greatest ignorance. If you had the wisdom of Solomon and never accepted Christ you'd be a greater fool that any who did accept Him and was welcomed into His kingdom. This is not a flame or an insult, but Biblical teaching as it relates to Psalms 14:1. Or as we see in Mark 8:

36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The burden of proof is on you.

We both believe the unprovable; we believe God is real; you believe He is not.

This is not the way atheists tend to use the term.

If you aren't convinced there is no God, then you're an agnostic, not an atheist.

 

[Gadarene]

Some. Despite what atheists repeatedly claim, there is no link between intellect and faith.

Well, at least we agree on something.

 

[KWCrazy]

Sorry KW, but people can be believers at one point of there life and maybe even feel they experienced God and then come to the realization it was only their mind that developed the experience.

That's not what was said. What was said was, "I've experienced what you would call the presence of God." You can't experience the presence of an entity that doesn't exist. The post did not say "I thought I felt the presence of God." Note, too, that the poster does not claim to be an atheist.

 

[bhsmte]

That's not what was said. What was said was, "I've experienced what you would call the presence of God." You can't experience the presence of an entity that doesn't exist. The post did not say "I thought I felt the presence of God." Note, too, that the poster does not claim to be an atheist.

Wrong, you can experience just about anything if your mind is willing.

Our minds are prewired to experience things based on our beliefs. Some outgrow this phenomenon, some don't, based on psychological needs.

THE GOD HELMET (Koren Helmet) Michael Persinger - YouTube

 

[super animator]

Wrong, you can experience just about anything if your mind is willing.

anything?

Our minds are prewired to experience things based on our beliefs. Some outgrow this phenomenon, some don't, based on psychological needs.

Do you have any other source besides YouTube? Thx.

 

[KWCrazy]

I don't "reject God", I reject your claims for the existence of deities being anything more than characters in books.

What exactly is it that you're seeking? How will you know when you find it? Do you think, logically, that if God existed, that someone might have written about Him? There have been many books written about Lincoln. Does that mean He didn't exist either?

Same goes for UFOs that are supposedly extraterrestrial spacecraft,

I know there are UFO's. Mostly, all we really know about them is that they are unidentified. Everything else is speculation.

Is there one - just one - biologist that can provide testable, falsifiable evidence for the existence of their particular deity? There isn't, is there?

Only if their deity is organic in nature and can be observed.

For example, how does one tell the difference between accepting the existence of deities and an exercise in self-deception?

I've given some suggestions, but nobody has had the guts to try them. Here's one. Go to the oldest minister you know; someone who has been preaching the word of God for many years. Sit down with him and ask him what personal firsthand miracles he has seen or experienced. Dot this three times with three different ministers and I think you'll get some very convincing testimony. The concurrence of three first hand witnesses are enough to send a man to death row. It might be enough to show you the path to eternal life. God is not a part of the physical world that you may go see Him and test Him. He reveals Himself only to His own. If you took time to truly seek Him you could easily find Him. As Jesus said, "Seek and you shall find."

Do you construct these straw-man arguments to comfort you with your own doubts?

Do you not understand what a straw man argument is or are you deliberately using the term out of context, because it doesn't apply. There is no construct here.

Despite claims by theists, there is nothing in regards to theology which can falsify the scientific observations of a world that appears to be a product of natural processes.

You mean you're just finding out that the supernatural cannot be tested by natural means? Congratulations! Can you tell me what would be different if the world were created by supernatural means? Further, considering that there is NO viable proven process that allows for origination, can you explain how ANYTHING came into being by natural processes?

Is their god a "trickster" god? Did their god make the universe to appear scientifically to be billions of years old as some sort of validation test for a particular interpretation of a book for a particular religion?

So now God is responsible for you rejecting His explanation of how He created the world in favor of some partially validated and still largely impossible theory of auto-origination? How do you accuse God of being a trickster when He gave you the specific details of how He did it?

Talk about arrogant!

 

[KWCrazy]

"Atheism means you're not convinced that a god does exist, not that you're convinced that a god does not exist. Understand the difference?" - Aron Ra

a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Could you at least take the time to ask us what we purport to know before making claims about what we purport to know?

ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik]
noun
1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

Is it my fault if you don't understand the difference between and atheist and an agnostic? I didn't decide what icon you should use.

 

[Gadarene]

Is it my fault if you don't understand the difference between and atheist and an agnostic? I didn't decide what icon you should use.

It is your fault if you don't understand the difference between the two as actually used by atheists and agnostics. Try talking to some of them and actually finding out what it is they think before making even more foul-ups.

 

[KWCrazy]

Well, at least we agree on something.

Amazing, isn't it? What shall we agree on next? This is exciting!

 

[KWCrazy]

It is your fault if you don't understand the difference between the two as actually used by atheists and agnostics. Try talking to some of them and actually finding out what it is they think before making even more foul-ups.

I made no foul up. I'm not the one who uses an atheist icon and says "Atheism means you're not convinced that a god does exist..." That's not atheism. I make no statements about the poster's personal beliefs. This is a philosophical debate, not a personal one.

 

[bhsmte]

anything?

Do you have any other source besides YouTube? Thx.

Read up on the work of; Michael Persinger who is a neuropsychologist who has done extensive work on religious experience and the brain.

Wired 7.11: This Is Your Brain on God

 

[Paradoxum]

ar·ro·gant [ar-uh-guhnt]
adjective
1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

The atheists I've seen in most are arrogant and self aggrandizing about how much smarter they are than others, and condescending to those who do not believe as they do. Interestingly, the Bible in Psalms 14:1 calls them "fools."

Ironically that would make those who believe the Bible arrogant, calling atheists fools.

Both theists and atheists can be arrogant, or humble.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but lighting is a natural process. Nobody educated beyond the second grade would consider lighting a miracle.

I know. My point would be that not understanding what is actually going on can lead to claims of miracles.

This, this and this could be considered miracles.

If you read the Sun wiki, some believers didn't see anything happen. I don't know what is up with the corpses. On the other hand, some fossils of dinosaurs survive and that is pretty unlikely.

As for the car crash, I have no idea what actually happened. Eye witnesses can be quite unreliable. I've had a Hindu claim that one of their gods filled a statue with milk, and others claim they remember past lives. I wont say they are lying, but simply that I don't necessarily believe that what they think happened actually happened.

Because they wouldn't be true.

Something can be untrue but not a lie. eg: they could be mistaken.

Some. Despite what atheists repeatedly claim, there is no link between intellect and faith.

More educated people are more likely to be atheists (in the US), but I know there are Christians who are more intelligent and more educated than me.

I could be wrong there.

Then you know that atheists are hopelessly wrong. There IS a God; whether people like it or not; whether they have faith in Him or not.

I don't know that. I meant that YOU would called my experience from God, and so would have I when I was younger. But now I see how my experiences could have been psychologically explained.

No it hasn't, actually. It's a theory that has never been observed. Tests to prove it happens only proved it doesn't. You could say that it's been proved to your satisfaction, but I could also say that existence of God and the veracity of the Scriptures have been proved to my satisfaction.

Well we can't really get into evolution here. It's a pretty big subject. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Enough evidence for whom? He sent His Son to die on a cross for you. It was witnessed by thousands, and many who witnessed His death and resurrection were tortured and killed rather than to recant their testimony. Beyond that, you yourself have said, "I've experienced what you would call the presence of God." If you have personal contact with God, what more evidence do you need?

That happened 2000 years ago, if it happened. It isn't clear what happened back then. God would know that better evidence, like showing himself now, would make sense.

What seems to be an experience of the divine can be psychology.

You just testified you once knew Him, now you say "IF there were a God...???? And we are supposed to take your post seriously when you disagree with yourself in the same post?

I once thought I knew him, and the type of experience I had is what many Christians experience. It was a meaningful part of my life, but I can't believe it any more. I wish there was a God, and it would nice if I could believe, but my past experiences don't prove a God.

I'd say you need counseling. You say there is probably no Christian God after you have already experienced His presence? That is a contradiction in logic bordering on delusion.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take your position very seriously. You're contradicting yourself on the core principle of your argument.

I meant that I had experienced something that YOU (or some other Christian) would say is from God. That doesn't mean I think it was God now.

 

[KWCrazy]

Ironically that would make those who believe the Bible arrogant, calling atheists fools.

Let me ask you this.

Suppose I offered you an all expenses paid week to a fabulous resort with everything you could imaging provided for you for only five grand. Would that be a bargain?

Suppose I went further and offered to sell you a mansion at the resort. It would only cost a hundred grand, and it came with a full staff to provide you with everything you needed all included. Would that be a steal?

Suppose I went even further and offered you the kingdom of Heaven for all eternity. Would that not be worth billions, even trillions of dollars? What if I offered it to you for free and all you had to do was accept it? Would you?

What would you think if someone rejected such an offer?

The Bible says that anyone who denies the existence of God is a fool. Why? Because the evidence is all around us. We might not have lived in a time when we could see His great miracles, but miracles still happen; mostly on a lesser scale. Actually, the Bible talks about fools quite often. In Proverbs 14, we read: "Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving." The fool is the one who rejects God; who rejects wisdom. Understanding this, it is not name calling to reference such Scriptural admonitions. Rather it puts things into perspective. Atheists are nothing new and nothing special. They've been around for a long, long time. There is not wisdom in their rejection of God; only folly in their belief that somehow everything came from nothing and nothing was designed.

Both theists and atheists can be arrogant, or humble.

True.

I know. My point would be that not understanding what is actually going on can lead to claims of miracles.

People can claim through ignorance that miracles have happened when they have not. In fact, most are merely incredible co-incidences. Sometimes they are statistically improbable, but some actually do defy the laws of physics and other natural laws.

If you read the Sun wiki, some believers didn't see anything happen.

Exactly; but that number was small and probably consisted of non believers. I think what happened was a vision; a sign if you prefer. I don't think the sun was actually doing acrobatics. I think it was an actual vision that had far too many witnesses to be mass hysteria. That some didn't see it actually makes it more of a miracle.

I don't know what is up with the corpses.

Neither does anyone else. They defy all known scientific processes, and seem to be limited to saints.

On the other hand, some fossils of dinosaurs survive and that is pretty unlikely.

Not really. fossilization can be recreated in a lab. incorruptible flesh cannot.

As for the car crash, I have no idea what actually happened.

The witnesses are pretty emphatic. From the size of the woman who was pulled out, there is NO WAY she could fit through a 8" gap without some physical laws getting pushed aside.

Eye witnesses can be quite unreliable.

That's why they never report seeing the same thing unless they witnesses an actual event, and even then they see from their own perspective. That's why it takes several witnesses to convict a person of a crime.

I've had a Hindu claim that one of their gods filled a statue with milk,

I would doubt that claim very seriously. Their god can't even manage his diet. (Hey, come on. That was funny.)

and others claim they remember past lives.

That one I understand. It's called False Memory Syndrome.

Something can be untrue but not a lie. eg: they could be mistaken.

If you know it's untrue then it's a lie. If you don't know, you could be mistaken.

More educated people are more likely to be atheists (in the US), but I know there are Christians who are more intelligent and more educated than me.

Not true. You'll find that among people who major in physical science or biology because they have evolution drummed into their heads on a daily basis. If you don;t agree that the earth is 4.5 billion years old you WILL get points off for missing that question. Professors don't teach the truth. They teach their version of truth. To get good grades, you need to either agree with them or be VERY GOOD and validating your position.

I had a sociology professor who was very liberal. We never agreed on anything, but I got a 4.0 in his class.

But now I see how my experiences could have been psychologically explained.

Faulty logic; confusing coincidence with cause. That religious visions can be replicated under controlled circumstances does not mean that all religious visions are psychologically induced.

I once thought I knew him, and the type of experience I had is what many Christians experience. It was a meaningful part of my life, but I can't believe it any more.

Sorry, I don't believe you. I think you're lying to yourself. I think you know what you felt then and you wish you felt it now, but things have happened in your life that have led you away from God and now He seems too distant to be real. We live in a world populated by an increasingly godless society and every vestige of decency is under assault. It may seem like if there was a God that He's put an end to it. He will. Re-read the Revelation. Things will get much worse than they are now, but eventually the end WILL come. I believe it will happen in my lifetime. I may be wrong, but everything that was prophesied including the return to Jerusalem and the armies of Israel swarming around them has come to pass. Jesus said that nobody will pluck you from His hand. That means that sooner or later you'll have no place left to turn than to Him. You already know something that atheists don't know and refuse to allow themselves to believe; that God is real. You've experience His presence. That is NOT something you forget. Having dinner with a movie star or king is nothing compared to meeting the Father. You can continue to deny it all you want, but once you know the truth you can't go back to not knowing.

It's easy to find Him though. he stands at the door and knocks. All you have to do is open up and let Him in again.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik]
noun
1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

Is it my fault if you don't understand the difference between and atheist and an agnostic? I didn't decide what icon you should use.

I'm an agnostic atheist.

I'd say you need counseling. You say there is probably no Christian God after you have already experienced His presence? That is a contradiction in logic bordering on delusion.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take your position very seriously. You're contradicting yourself on the core principle of your argument.

There is nothing contradictory about that.

In short, then there is indeed another 'option'.....A person may have believed that they were once in communion with a god, but then come to the realisation, through reasoned thinking, that such was probably not the case. It does not mean that they were any less fervent in that belief than you might be, while they held it......!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The Bible says that anyone who denies the existence of God is a fool.

The Bible is wrong.

Why? Because the evidence is all around us.

And yet theists have been unable to muster enough of that evidence to mount a compelling case for deities.

Actually, the Bible talks about fools quite often. In Proverbs 14, we read: "Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving." The fool is the one who rejects God; who rejects wisdom. Understanding this, it is not name calling to reference such Scriptural admonitions. Rather it puts things into perspective. Atheists are nothing new and nothing special. They've been around for a long, long time. There is not wisdom in their rejection of God; only folly in their belief that somehow everything came from nothing and nothing was designed.

I can't speak for all atheists, but I don't recall indicating that I believe everything came from nothing. By contrast, the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo, which I presume you accept, states that everything was created from nothing. Doesn't that mean you believe everything was somehow created from nothing?

Sorry, I don't believe you. I think you're lying to yourself. I think you know what you felt then and you wish you felt it now, but things have happened in your life that have led you away from God and now He seems too distant to be real. We live in a world populated by an increasingly godless society and every vestige of decency is under assault. It may seem like if there was a God that He's put an end to it. He will. Re-read the Revelation. Things will get much worse than they are now, but eventually the end WILL come. I believe it will happen in my lifetime. I may be wrong, but everything that was prophesied including the return to Jerusalem and the armies of Israel swarming around them has come to pass. Jesus said that nobody will pluck you from His hand. That means that sooner or later you'll have no place left to turn than to Him. You already know something that atheists don't know and refuse to allow themselves to believe; that God is real. You've experience His presence. That is NOT something you forget. Having dinner with a movie star or king is nothing compared to meeting the Father. You can continue to deny it all you want, but once you know the truth you can't go back to not knowing.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that someone who once a devout Christian, who read the Bible, attended Church services, prayed daily and was educated in theology, could one day come to a new understanding and no longer possess that same enthusiasm for the supernatural or the Christian faith? We weren't "led away" so that God now seems "distant" to us. We no longer share a belief in a deity. Period. Let's be frank here: I think what frightens you most is the prospect that if it can happen to us, if we can go from being devout Christians to no longer believing in a deity of any sort, that it can happen to you also.

 

[KWCrazy]

The Bible is wrong.

Or you are.
Let's look at this logically. If the Bible is right then the one who says there is no God is a fool. If a fool proclaims something is wrong, of what value is that comment? We are said to not take the council of a fool. Putting aside the negativity of the word, let's substitute the word fool for atheist. Then we have Psalms 14:1 saying, "the atheist has said in his heart, 'there is no God.' " Can we agree that such a paraphrase would be less personally insulting? Keeping that substitution, what counsel would we find in the Bible?

Proverbs 18:2 An atheist takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 14:7-9 Leave the presence of an atheist, for there you do not meet words of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of atheists is deceiving. Atheists mock at the guilt offering, but the upright enjoy acceptance.

Proverbs 23:9 Do not speak in the hearing of an atheist, for he will despise the good sense of your words.

Psalm 14:1-4 To the choirmaster. Of David. The atheist says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread and do not call upon the Lord?

The words and the admonitions are interchangeable. The meaning is the same. You say the Bible is wrong but you have no proof. You cannot say those who lived before have not lived. In fact, ancient cities mentioned in the Bible have been discovered by archaeologists. The fact is, people who have actively sought God have found Him. Those who claim He doesn't exist have never sought Him. We can no more take your word for it than we could if you said that Waldo was never in any of the "Where's Waldo" pictures because you never looked for him.

And yet theists have been unable to muster enough of that evidence to mount a compelling case for deities.

Compelling for whom? 85% of Americans know that God is real. Atheists are a small and excessively vocal 15% minority who claim a God they have never sought cannot be found. Seriously, your position is NOT one of enlightenment, but ignorance.

I can't speak for all atheists, but I don't recall indicating that I believe everything came from nothing.

Either you believe in the eternity of matter or you believe in the spontaneous auto-creation of matter from nothingness. neither position is scientifically viable. Either the universe has been here forever or it came from somewhere. it really isn't that complicated.

By contrast, the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo, which I presume you accept, states that everything was created from nothing. Doesn't that mean you believe everything was somehow created from nothing?

On the contrary. There was God. God possesses energy. From His immeasurable energy He created a physical reality and the universe within it. It had a source. It had a point of origination. It didn't come from nothing, it came from the Creator.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that someone who once a devout Christian, who read the Bible, attended Church services, prayed daily and was educated in theology, could one day come to a new understanding and no longer possess that same enthusiasm for the supernatural or the Christian faith?

It's not. It IS impossible for me to believe that someone who once used to hang around with Uncle Ned now believes Uncle Ned doesn't exist. Either they never knew him or they're lying now. Saying they thought they knew of a guy named Ned isn't the same as saying they once had a personal relationship with him and now they know he doesn't exist. That's a logical impossibility.

People can loose their faith. That happens a lot, actually. Sometimes they find it again. It's never God who leaves us, but we who leave God. We let sin distance ourselves from Him until we have such a wall of iniquity between us we can no longer see Him. That is not God's fault. Our lack of faith doesn't cause Him to cease existing. Our lack of faith doesn't make us suddenly more enlightened because now we no longer believe in the only constant truth of the universe.

Let's be frank here:

No! I eat franks; especially Ball Park Franks.

I think what frightens you most is the prospect that if it can happen to us, if we can go from being devout Christians to no longer believing in a deity of any sort, that it can happen to you also.

Your separation from God should frighten you, not me. I'm not threatened by it. I understand fully that either God's Word will keep me from sin or sin will keep me from God's word. As for your personal journey, don't take this the wrong way but I think you're lying. I think you're lying to yourself. I think you know full well that God exists and you struggle with it in your own mind, which could explain why you're here and why you feel the need to continuously validate your own skepticism by attacking those who believe. You can't run away from God, though. He sees all and He knows all. You can demand physical proof of God all you want, but you know as well as I do that the ultimate proof of God lies in the conviction of your own heart.

 

[super animator]

This isn't a discussion of philosophy, this is KWcrazy preach section.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

And attendance or participation is not compulsory.