So can the Genesis be infallible and inerrant history?

[EternalDragon]

Why do you feel that's important? He does that in the Bible.

If it helps, I'll use a Biblical example - God (well, angels speaking for God, if memory serves, but you get me) told Sarah that she would give birth to children despite her old age. Now, the Bible doesn't say anything about her having virgin births, so we can reasonably assume that she had these children through sexual intercourse.

Knowing what God said, could Sarah have chosen not to have sex, therefore never giving birth to anyone? Note, I'm not saying she did make that decision, obviously, or that she even would make it, being a faithful servant of God - could she? Was that an option available to her?

I believe that was Abraham that the angel told. He was in the temple praying to God and was a believer. God was sort of telling him what he was to do so not really a good example at all.

Give me a valid example please. It would involve God going back in time and having a purpose to tell you a specific future. God is not foolish.

 

[CabVet]

Give me a valid example please. It would involve God going back in time and having a purpose to tell you a specific future. God is not foolish.

You didn't understand the question, it is not necessary for God to go back in time. It was not my question, but I will repeat it:

Could I choose to not eat the apple, even though God saw the future and said I would be eating the apple?

To clarify, imagine this scenario if you will: God appears to me today and says "I saw the future and I see that tomorrow you will eat an apple". The question was, knowing that, can I decide not to eat the apple?

 

[AV1611VET]

If the book of Genesis is not meant to be taken literally why stop other books of the Bible to be the same?

Excellent question!

I'll bet they think Jonah is an allegory.

 

[bhsmte]

You didn't understand the question, it is not necessary for God to go back in time. It was not my question, but I will repeat it:

Could I choose to not eat the apple, even though God saw the future and said I would be eating the apple?

To clarify, imagine this scenario if you will: God appears to me today and says "I saw the future and I see that tomorrow you will eat an apple". The question was, knowing that, can I decide not to eat the apple?

All I know is, I would love to have God with me at the sports book in Vegas.

 

[46AND2]

Excellent question!

I'll bet they think Jonah is an allegory.

Nope. Just fantasy, myth, whatever.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's what brains are for.

Brains are for strawmen.

(At least they were in the Wizard of Oz.)

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope. Just fantasy, myth, whatever.

Does that "whatever" include "literal"?

 

[EternalDragon]

You didn't understand the question, it is not necessary for God to go back in time. It was not my question, but I will repeat it:

Could I choose to not eat the apple, even though God saw the future and said I would be eating the apple?

To clarify, imagine this scenario if you will: God appears to me today and says "I saw the future and I see that tomorrow you will eat an apple". The question was, knowing that, can I decide not to eat the apple?

No, because you have forgotten He said that and you take a bite before you realize it.

 

[46AND2]

No, because you have forgotten He said that and you take a bite before you realize it.

Cop out. So...is that a no, then? You cannot choose not to eat the apple?

 

[CabVet]

No, because you have forgotten He said that and you take a bite before you realize it.

You can't answer a simple question, can you? God comes to me and says, tomorrow you will eat an apple. He does not command it, he simply states it as a fact. Can I, knowing that, decide not to eat the apple? It is a simple yes or no.

 

[bhsmte]

No, because you have forgotten He said that and you take a bite before you realize it.

What????????

 

[46AND2]

Does that "whatever" include "literal"?

Is literal a synonym for myth or fantasy?

Fable. Fairy tale. Yarn. Embellishment. Tall tale. Whatever. ;-)

 

[CabVet]

Does that "whatever" include "literal"?

AV, help me out here, I am sure you know the answer to this. God comes to me and says: tomorrow you will eat an apple. He does not command it, he simply states it as a fact. Can I, knowing that, decide not to eat the apple? It is a simple yes or no.

 

[AV1611VET]

You can't answer a simple question, can you? God comes to me and says, tomorrow you will eat an apple. He does not command it, he simply states it as a fact. Can I, knowing that, decide not to eat the apple? It is a simple yes or no.

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy, as we may read, 2Ki 23:15-20.

 

[CabVet]

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

Still not answering the question.

God comes to me and says, tomorrow you will eat an apple. He does not command it, he simply states it as a fact. Can I, knowing that, decide not to eat the apple? It is a simple yes or no.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, help me out here, I am sure you know the answer to this. God comes to me and says: tomorrow you will eat an apple. He does not command it, he simply states it as a fact. Can I, knowing that, decide not to eat the apple? It is a simple yes or no.

No.

 

[CabVet]

No.

You disappoint me... The answer would be yes if there was such thing free will. Here is a Biblical lesson for you: free will means that God knows our future but decides to let us change it (if we chose to do so).

 

[AV1611VET]

You disappoint me... The answer would be yes if there was such thing free will. Here is a Biblical lesson for you: free will means that God knows our future but decides to let us change it (if we chose to do so).

I said NO with respect to your request.

My full answer would have been:

You can most certainly decide not to, but tomorrow you will.

The thing about prophecies, is that anyone can make them -- they're a dime a dozen.

But when God makes one, it can't be prevented from happening.

Mark it down, if God said it, it WILL come to pass.

 

[CabVet]

I said NO with respect to your request.

My full answer would have been:

You can most certainly decide not to, but tomorrow you will.

The thing about prophecies, is that anyone can make them -- they're a dime a dozen.

But when God makes one, it can't be prevented from happening.

Mark it down, if God said it, it WILL come to pass.

I never said it was a prophecy, a command or anything of the sort. All I said was that God saw into the future and told me that tomorrow I would eat an apple.

If everything that Gods sees in the future happens, then our destinies (I really don't like that word) are pre-determined and there is no such thing as free will. If I decide not to eat the apple, but tomorrow I eat it anyways, there is no free will.

 

[46AND2]

Here's another example, AV: I apologize if I am not recalling correctly, but I believe you have stated that the word of God has always existed; in heaven prior to becoming the Bible on earth. Correct?

So, in light of that, could Judas have chosen not to betray Jesus? Peter to not deny him? Pilate to not sentence him? Etc. Etc. Etc.

If not, where is their free will?