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Is anyone else watching the Strange Fire conference with John MacArthur?

simonthezealot

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maybe a religious spirit.... do you think that everyone who comes to the Lord comes altogether or are some hurting and broken..... still clinging to past abuse or unforgiveness. Some come out of the occult and have for years invited demons to befriend them, they need to be encouraged and taught and delivered....
Most churches just sit there.... demons would go unnoticed in a dry dead church. People who are suffering from demonic oppression keep it to themselves bc they know its not acceptable or they would be looked down on if they went to the church elders.
In Spirit lead worship these demons are uncomfortable and they either get people to leave or they act out and try to disrupt. That is why discernment is so important..... but like I said, if there is nothing going on in a church - there is nothing going on....

“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”
 
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Frogster

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Frogger..Not going to get into a cessationism debate, i'd ask you simply show me from scripture though that the early church practiced these oddities.

Does the bible stand, or people? you asked for scripture earlier on the thread in post 93 and 96...

are you a cessationist or not?
 
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HisSparkPlug

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Charismatic Extremes...

1. Swinging from the chandeliers
2. Promising people great wealth
3. $10 healing lines, $100 healing lines... SO on and so forth
4. Making animal or any other noise out of the flesh
5. Saying the Holy Spirit said... When the Holy Spirit didn't say
6. Teaching people that they must do a certain set of things to claim having the Holy Spirit.

Fundamentalist Extremes...

1. When its all about liturgy.
2. The hardened heart - Justifying the lack of emotion through doctrine.
3. Torture - Torturing people with long dry sermons that have not a thread of Spiritual value to them.
4. Our way or the highway... Thinking they have the corner on everything.
5. So cold you can ice skate down to the front of the church... And whose standing behind that pulpit y'all... Reverend Polar Bear!

These are very good RockyT.
Errrm... yeah... not sure what's up with the barking and mooing.
Anything that gives glory to GOD is of Him.
Most of my life I spent a quiet reserved person who thought other people raising hands or clapping or being 'joyful' was weird until one day I was in church wondering about what was going on with some other people during worship when the Lord distinctly told me to "mind my own business". ha!
Only 2.5 yrs ago did the Lord start to draw me so incredibly close to Him that I could not WAIT to get to worship so I could express my adoration for Him = Arms up in the air surrendering it all to Him with tears streaming down my face and Holy Spirit doing some wonderful work in my heart all the while. I would not trade it for the world. He is too wonderful. I would not trade the infilling of Holy Spirit for a thousand deadbeat dry worldly church services.. No way.

Thank You Lord for Your Holy Spirit and for touching those who are hungry for more of You

Kim Walker Smith - Pursuit - YouTube
 
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simonthezealot

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Kim Walker's theology is of the worst is one of the worst strains of the charismatics...Be discerning folks.
We have joy and raise our hands in worship at our church, that is not a determining factor to what a charismatic is.
 
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HisSparkPlug

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Thanks for the prayer, and Im just watching some of the crazier (as so named) videos at youtube, and theres alot of them.

I cant distinguish between charasmatic and pentacostal though.
"charismatic" is just a word, just as "pentecostal" is just a word. Pentecostals can be charismatic, but I've seen a lot of pentecostals who are dried up bones too.
Charismatic is not a denomination.
 
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HisSparkPlug

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maybe a religious spirit.... do you think that everyone who comes to the Lord comes altogether or are some hurting and broken..... still clinging to past abuse or unforgiveness. Some come out of the occult and have for years invited demons to befriend them, they need to be encouraged and taught and delivered....
Most churches just sit there.... demons would go unnoticed in a dry dead church. People who are suffering from demonic oppression keep it to themselves bc they know its not acceptable or they would be looked down on if they went to the church elders.
In Spirit lead worship these demons are uncomfortable and they either get people to leave or they act out and try to disrupt. That is why discernment is so important..... but like I said, if there is nothing going on in a church - there is nothing going on....
Yep.. I couldn't stand going to a dead beat church service which is an hour long with 10 minutes of worship...... Nooooo thanks... I'd rather eat sand. Worship is the most important part of service = We were made to worship Him no matter what we are going through. God inhabits the praises of His people (Israel) and it's during worship when He most often touches us. Amen?

And yes, discernment is something which the church body needs a lot more of.

I LOVE Kim Walker's praise & worship = He has blessed her amazingly. His anointing is beautiful through this worship :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-lY8VQpSTY
 
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Fireinfolding

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"charismatic" is just a word, just as "pentecostal" is just a word. Pentecostals can be charismatic, but I've seen a lot of pentecostals who are dried up bones too.
Charismatic is not a denomination.

So of the two videos I posted, would they be considered dried bones or wet bones?

Like would either of those be considered dry or wet or just weird?

Because it always depends who you ask, because no one really comes out and says, Im not Spirit filled but would consider themselves Spirit filled, and just as many who say they are wouldnt consider any of that of the Spirit. Another might say, "they are on fire" ... you know how it goes.

Less to do with fruit and more to do with making alot noise most of the time.
 
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HisSparkPlug

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So of the two videos I posted, would they be considered dried bones or wet bones?

Like would either of those be considered dry or wet or just weird?

Because it always depends who you ask, because no one really comes out and says, Im not Spirit filled but would consider themselves Spirit filled, and just as many who say they are wouldnt consider any of that of the Spirit. Another might say, "they are on fire" ... you know how it goes.

Less to do with fruit and more to do with making alot noise most of the time.
I don't know what I'd call those videos you posted.. LOL
That is not any kind of worship or movement I've ever seen. Like Andrea411 has mentioned, I too know people who have gone to TO blessing and they didn't see anything like that. People filled with joy, or shaking a bit, sure.. that's all biblical. But anyone I've ever met who came from the TO Blessing was indeed blessed, often having life changing encounters with Jesus.

Even falling under God's power is biblical - it happened all the time throughout the old and new testament. I personally have never fallen down even while others fell down around me, but I do not like falling as I was abused horribly and am still healing. The Lord looks at the heart. A few years ago, before I ever knew I was abused, the pastor's wife was laying hands on people and many were going down under God's power, but not me. She looked at me and said, "the Lord says you've had enough falling down and it would feel like a violation to you".... I didn't know what He meant by that then but I know now and I am grateful for His amazing sensitivity. I've never been one to like losing control and the Lord knew this even when I didn't understand it.

As so many here have stated, there are OVER the top charismatic experiences, and there are SHRIVELLED UP DRY BONES experiences. Like anything in life, we should seek the real & authentic, which is usually found in the middle.

Hope that helps you in your quest for truth.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Yeah I have fallen under once when actually going out to disprove the same. I shared about that here before, Im just not an experience chaser though.

So I can be like, wow, that was cool, or powerful (in the sense of knowing what happened to me) but I try to keep myself in check (in the sense of) whether I knew Him or not through the experience.

Like would I want to return to know Him more because of it or just to re-experience what I just did (though I did not).

I dont know if I put that as rightly as I should have but I have made somewhat of a promise to myself that I wouldnt chase down such experiences. Ones that might even be powerful (in themselves) and wow me (even just a little) only because it seems somewheres along the line experiences can become more sought after then the Lord. As weird as that might sound, there is that as I have noticed it in some in those camps too and didnt want to get caught up in that.
 
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HisSparkPlug

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Yeah I have fallen under once when actually going out to disprove the same. I shared about that here before, Im just not an experience chaser though.

So I can be like, wow, that was cool, or powerful (in the sense of knowing what happened to me) but I try to keep myself in check (in the sense of) whether I knew Him or not through the experience.

Like would I want to return to know Him more because of it or just to re-experience what I just did (though I did not).

I dont know if I put that as rightly as I should have but I have made somewhat of a promise to myself that I wouldnt chase down such experiences. Ones that might even be powerful (in themselves) and wow me (even just a little) only because it seems somewheres along the line experiences can become more sought after then the Lord. As weird as that might sound, there is that as I have noticed it in some in those camps too and didnt want to get caught up in that.

I love to hear testimonies about how God knocks people down who are trying to disprove His touch.. lol.. the best part is how loving He is when He does it amen? He knows how to convince our doubting hearts. I don't care if I ever fall down. I had an evangelist push me down once though, I was angry afterwards!

Of course it's important not to chase an experience. I've no interest in an experience but I don't think God gives 'experiences' to people if that's all they're seeking. Personally, I think those who are in it to seek an experience are the ones who end up barking on the floor (LOL) and pretending to have one.

A real 'experience' is simply a result of His presence - It's His presence I seek. The Word says that in His presence is fullness of joy. With me, that manifests as the loss of all my worries.. and trust me, I have a TON of worries & stress. There have been times He shows up in my little room when I'm praising Him here all alone and He lifts my burdens and renews my strength. But when He shows up, I also "feel" His presence on me. I suppose that classifies as "an experience".

Another of my fav tunes.. heh..

JC - All I Need is You - YouTube
 
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rockytopva

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Nice to see support in this thread from my Charismatic brothers and sisters in Christ... Love you guys!

I must say here that the Charismatic front is a wild and western frontier. Wild in that there is no governing body in the form of a denomination to tell them what to do. So, one must be careful on how one approaches these churches. Check out the 'what we believe' section and make sure they are bible believing. When everything comes correctly together the results are very much beautiful and the effects desirable. Even for a little child!

Baby worship!!!!! (As Seen On TV) This honestly shocked me to see baby Ava worshipping - YouTube
 
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Andrea411

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Nice to see support in this thread from my Charismatic brothers and sisters in Christ... Love you guys!

I must say here that the Charismatic front is a wild and western frontier. Wild in that there is no governing body in the form of a denomination to tell them what to do. So, one must be careful on how one approaches these churches. Check out the 'what we believe' section and make sure they are bible believing. When everything comes correctly together the results are very much beautiful and the effects desirable. Even for a little child!
........................................
my year old granddaughter lifts her hands in praise... smiles and says Jesus yea!! claps so adorable. I call her my li'l Pentecostal baby.

My daughter when she was three... I was an atheist. The only way you'd hear Jesus from me was cussin. So one day she is in the kitchen and I heard her say Jesus (softly not as an expletive). I asked her who told her about Jesus. She said "nobody". But I was insistent bc I didn't want anyone telling her about religion.... she looks at me square in the face and says "He talks to me and I talk to Him!!" and walks away from me.... it actually scared me.

At 7 she would beg me to take her to church... I told her maybe someday... she was 8 when I got radically saved, in my living room.... IDK how or why all I know is He was merciful to me in a way I did not deserve and He talks to babies.
 
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Andrea411

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I love to hear testimonies about how God knocks people down who are trying to disprove His touch.. lol.. the best part is how loving He is when He does it amen? He knows how to convince our doubting hearts. I don't care if I ever fall down. I had an evangelist push me down once though, I was angry afterwards!

Of course it's important not to chase an experience. I've no interest in an experience but I don't think God gives 'experiences' to people if that's all they're seeking. Personally, I think those who are in it to seek an experience are the ones who end up barking on the floor (LOL) and pretending to have one.

A real 'experience' is simply a result of His presence - It's His presence I seek. The Word says that in His presence is fullness of joy. With me, that manifests as the loss of all my worries.. and trust me, I have a TON of worries & stress. There have been times He shows up in my little room when I'm praising Him here all alone and He lifts my burdens and renews my strength. But when He shows up, I also "feel" His presence on me. I suppose that classifies as "an experience".

Another of my fav tunes.. heh..
................................................
I had a friend who went to church bc she was addicted to drugs and wanted to give her kids away at church... so she walks in and its during the end of the worship service and before she gets to the front she is slain in the Spirit... wakes up delivered from drugs and got her life on track, kept her kids and her marriage.
 
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Andrea411

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Yeah I have fallen under once when actually going out to disprove the same. I shared about that here before, Im just not an experience chaser though.

So I can be like, wow, that was cool, or powerful (in the sense of knowing what happened to me) but I try to keep myself in check (in the sense of) whether I knew Him or not through the experience.

Like would I want to return to know Him more because of it or just to re-experience what I just did (though I did not).

I dont know if I put that as rightly as I should have but I have made somewhat of a promise to myself that I wouldnt chase down such experiences. Ones that might even be powerful (in themselves) and wow me (even just a little) only because it seems somewheres along the line experiences can become more sought after then the Lord. As weird as that might sound, there is that as I have noticed it in some in those camps too and didnt want to get caught up in that.
......................
I see these experience junkies... I understand bc its so powerful and can be so life changing, but I'm afraid if I chase it and not Him.... then I'm likely to be susceptible to 'forcing the issue'. I have never been slain in the Spirit, yet I have seen hundreds and have prayed over others that were?? My daughter when she was nine was.... and she laid so still on the floor for maybe 20 minutes. She gets up and tells me "God touched me Mom" her face was all bright and red..... like she'd been running.... something happened. I know today at 35 she is so funny. She doesn't do anything before she prays. Even to get her hair done, she says the Lord orders her footsteps.... and people just love her... such a gentle loving person... she puts mom to shame. But thats what Moms pray for isn't it??
 
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Fireinfolding

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HisSparkplug,

And no one touched me, so not one hand was laid upon me when I hit the floor before I knew what had happened to me.

And that was well over 20 years ago.

But yeah, I actually went to disprove it and was shown otherwise, I have no problem with saying so either. No matter how ridiculous some of the movements now appear, I cant deny the truth of what happened. It didnt make me a follower of that particular group or desirious to follow after the same experience again or anything. It was that it was okay now, I could say I was wrong and I couldnt say anything against it or them (in relation to the same) either because not one of them ever put their hands on me.

So I said, now that was very powerful indeed, and pretty much walked out of there with more of a bruised ego, and thats about it. And even that wasnt too hard to do though because no one knew what I had intended except the Lord at that time.

Had I made an announcement (publically) and then was floored that would be a whole different story, so it made me slower to speak on somethings.

But I am familiar, and in more ways then one. Im just not a sharer of my experiences so much either, just that one ( even as I have already) and which has really been a matter of being honest about it (when seeing me at that topic again) in another. But again, I even had to be shown myself (personally so). I know well that someone could have talked to me till they were blue in the face (attesting that it was) but they would just be both fruitcakes (and fakers) and I would be more then willing to go just to prove them wrong. So I convinced myself that talking bout experiences is sorta dumb, because I already know how I would have responded.

I am always skeptical, and typically cautious. But thats just how I am though.

And just because that was a real experience for me, doesnt make me somehow believe everyone in that room was for real. The experience just validated what I stood in doubt of (to me) and thats all. I didnt stand in doubt of God, but the realness of that happening. And when it did, I didnt put my faith in either them, or that, because it was already in God, I just learned it was not fake, and not to speak against it as though it were.

Now, had someone tried to push me, I would have pushed back (because thats how I was) and I would be writing (here and now) what a scam the whole hitting the floor thing is too.

And sure, theres always that also.

Even still I would say, "big whoop", it was an experience (thats all). And I dont put much merit in them beyond that. Even my own actually.
 
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Andrea411

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HisSparkplug,

And no one touched me, so not one hand was laid upon me when I hit the floor before I knew what had happened to me.

And that was well over 20 years ago.

But yeah, I actually went to disprove it and was shown otherwise, I have no problem with saying so either. No matter how ridiculous some of the movements now appear, I cant deny the truth of what happened. It didnt make me a follower of that particular group or desirious to follow after the same experience again or anything. It was that it was okay now, I could say I was wrong and I couldnt say anything against it or them (in relation to the same) either because not one of them ever put their hands on me.

So I said, now that was very powerful indeed, and pretty much walked out of there with more of a bruised ego, and thats about it. And even that wasnt too hard to do though because no one knew what I had intended except the Lord at that time.

Had I made an announcement (publically) and then was floored that would be a whole different story, so it made me slower to speak on somethings.

But I am familiar, and in more ways then one. Im just not a sharer of my experiences so much either, just that one ( even as I have already) and which has really been a matter of being honest about it (when seeing me at that topic again) in another. But again, I even had to be shown myself (personally so). I know well that someone could have talked to me till they were blue in the face (attesting that it was) but they would just be both fruitcakes (and fakers) and I would be more then willing to go just to prove them wrong. So I convinced myself that talking bout experiences is sorta dumb, because I already know how I would have responded.

I am always skeptical, and typically cautious. But thats just how I am though.

And just because that was a real experience for me, doesnt make me somehow believe everyone in that room was for real. The experience just validated what I stood in doubt of (to me) and thats all. I didnt stand in doubt of God, but the realness of that happening. And when it did, I didnt put my faith in either them, or that, because it was already in God, I just learned it was not fake, and not to speak against it as though it were.

Now, had someone tried to push me, I would have pushed back (because thats how I was) and I would be writing (here and now) what a scam the whole hitting the floor thing is too.

And sure, theres always that also.

Even still I would say, "big whoop", it was an experience (thats all). And I dont put much merit in them beyond that. Even my own actually.
..............
I was an atheist 30 yrs ago and an angry one at that... thought all those Christians were just a bunch of hypocrites telling other people how to live. One day, I'm looking at my garden thinking this can't all just be an evolutionary accident.........I told this God 'I didn't believe' in that if He was real I wanted to know Him, but don't send any of those fools to my door or do any miracles (I'll just rationalize them) I said God if You are real Your going to have to do something with me from the inside out, BUT I'D THINK YOU'D WANT MY MOUTH ON YOUR SIDE!!!! So a week or so goes by and i didn't think much about it. I'm turning the channel and keep getting this TV Christian show on.... absolutely hated them (like chalk on a blackboard ugh) but theres like 30 seconds till the next show and this guy says "IF you can't believe in God its OK tell Him, so I had just said the same thing a few days earlier so I said "God I can't believe in You" - the guy (Ben Kinchlow) says now say this prayer and for some strange reason I did.... honestly didn't know what it was but when I said, "amen' it was as if the Lord was leaning on a door and just pushed me over... I was on the floor crying, knowing how many times He'd actually spoke to me and I wasn't ready to listen. I not only knew God was real, but God was Jesus Christ.... it was so powerful. When I got up I'm like "now what do I do" I'm an atheist that believes in God??? My husband still laughs about what a huge change happened that day. I was an atheist one minute and a radical believer the next but I still had to find out why... I went on a long journey to find out about this Jesus that had just come into my heart bc He did. For people to say that prayer doesn't mean anything haven't experienced it the way I did.
So IDK if that is scriptural LOL... I've been told its not but all I know is I love Him more each day and He has changed me in ways I can not express.... 30 years now and I'm still sharing that testimony where ever I go... the supermarket, Home Depot... at work. I love to tell people how radically wrong I was LOL.... I was so convinced and He was so so merciful to me. I am forever in awe of His grace bc I was such an angry atheist.
God bless, andrea
 
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