A Question for Creationists

[AV1611VET]

AV's reference was incomplete, because the post he was commenting on did not use the entire phrase "I will" five times.

This passage always brings a chuckle ...

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

My pastor once pointed out that, if you notice, God stopped listening to the Pharisee after two lines, as if to say ... "Enough of this! Next!"

(Count the I's ... )

QV for comparison:

I prayed, I read the Bible, I was involved with the Church, I held leadership positions, I even gave serious consideration to the idea of becoming a priest or pastor.

 

[TheBear]

......

 

[Loudmouth]

I am not ignoring evidence. I am disagreeing with the conclusions to the evidence.

You are ignoring the facts. There is a nested hierarchy. There are transitional fossils.

 

[TheBear]

Can you imagine being turned down at a job interview because "I" was used several times?

 

[Loudmouth]

How does it not?

What would falsify a common creator? What shared genetic feature would you accept as evidence of evolution? What features would a fossil need in order to evidence evolution in your eyes?

If the evidence is consistent with evolution, woudl this falsify a common creator?

All life forms are made from similar elements at a similar time using the same blueprint for life; perfectly suited for their environments?

Why would this require a nested hierarchy? Why couldn't a supposedly all powerful and all knowing creator produce a species with teats and feathers that perfectly fits their environment? Birds and mammals have a common creator according to you, so why don't we see a species with a mixture of derived mammalian and avian features?

Symbiotic relationships that could have only been simultaneously created?

Where did you show that?

A Cambrian Explosion that completely invalidates evolution and a fossil record that points to a global flood,

Evidence?

and that shows absolutely no partially developed; partially evolved species?

What features would a species need to have in order to be partially developed or partially evolved? What does that even mean?

Are wolves partially evolved chihuahuas? What about this mudskipper, is it partially evolved because it is a terrestrial species that has fins instead of fully developed legs?

Irreducible complexity of organs and complex DNA even in the oldest species ever to exist?

Where did you show that IC systems can not evolve?

Sterility and death resulting from excessive deviance from the norm?

Evidence?

Benevolent mutations a mere fantasy better suited for Marvel Comics than actual testable biology?

I've already pointed to beneficial mutations in the human genome. They are among the mutations that separate us from chimps.

If evolution were introduced today, it would be laughed out of existence.

It is accepted by more than 99% of degreed biologists. The only one being laughed at is you.

 

[Loudmouth]

That's what they can't get. They see a common ancestor. We see a common Creator.

Why shouldn't we see a common ancestor? How is the evidence inconsistent with a common ancestor?

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you imagine being turned down at a job interview because "I" was used several times?

No, but one doesn't get to Heaven by works.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why shouldn't we see a common ancestor?

Good question.

If we came from apes, then why are apes still around?

(Or did our common ancestors die out long ago?)

 

[TheBear]

Can you imagine being turned down at a job interview because "I" was used several times?

No, but one doesn't get to Heaven by works.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Tell me something, AV. Is cleverness and shiftiness better to you, than honesty and openness?

The guy had his former Christian faith called into question. Who is he going to talk about, someone else?

Stop twisting and distorting things, AV. Your whole "he said I 5 times" garbage is a total non response to his point, and nothing more than a dishonest distraction.

Oh, wait. Now we're onto "works". Boy, you're good!

 

[Loudmouth]

Good question.

If we came from apes, then why are apes still around?

(Or did our common ancestors die out long ago?)

If chihuahuas came from wolves, why are there still wolves?

If Americans came from Europeans, why are there still Europeans?

If me and my cousins share a common ancestor, why are my cousins still around?

 

[TheBear]

The guy had his former Christian faith called into question.

BTW - isn't there a forum rule prohibiting such questioning in the first place?

 

[AV1611VET]

The guy had his former Christian faith called into question.

I would like to repeat KW's excellent point here:

If you never knew God you were never a Christian.
If you DID know God, then you know you're lying now, because He exists.
God didn't go anywhere. You did.

I would also like to point out that I asked him what Jesus did for him, and he didn't answer.

As I have said in the past, I am intrigued by those who claim to be a Christian at one time, but now aren't, as I would like to know from them why they turned their backs on all of this:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

We have our Christian faith "called into question" here hourly, and we're glad to be able to take the opportunity to share our faith ... even among those who mock and ridicule us for our beliefs.

 

[TheBear]

I think this whole 'witch hunt' approach is against forum rules.


ETA - Yeah. I just checked. It's under the Flaming and Harassment clause.

 

[AV1611VET]

If chihuahuas came from wolves, why are there still wolves?

Chihuahuas and wolves can stare each other in the face.

If Americans came from Europeans, why are there still Europeans?

Americans and Europeans can stare each other in the face.

If me and my cousins share a common ancestor, why are my cousins still around?

Me and my cousins can stare our common anc... oh, wait ... nevermind.

 

[AV1611VET]

BTW - isn't there a forum rule prohibiting such questioning in the first place?

I guess we all deserve a warning, don't we?

 

[AV1611VET]

I think this whole 'witch hunt' approach is against forum rules.

Just because Archaeoptyrxes (sp.?) flew, doesn't mean they were witches.

ETA - Yeah. I just checked. It's under the Flaming and Harassment clause.

Nice to see someone check the rules every once in awhile.

It would be nice if they did it on our behalf as well, wouldn't it?

 

[OllieFranz]

Good question.

If we came from apes, then why are apes still around?

(Or did our common ancestors die out long ago?)

If Christianity came from Judaism, then why are Jews still around?

(Or did the Patriarchs die long ago?)

 

[AV1611VET]

If Christianity came from Judaism, then why are Jews still around?

(Or did the Patriarchs die long ago?)

Are you aware that evolution teaches that our common ancestors died out millions of years ago?

(I think ... I could be wrong.)

And if you don't mind me asking, what is their binomen?

I've always wondered that, as even in Mr. Dawkins video, he just points down to a dot on a chart, but doesn't name it.

 

[TheBear]

Now you've taken us way off into lala land.

What started out with you counting how many times he said "I", in a context where that was the only reasonable and honest reply he could have given, (which it's against forum rules to question him like that in the first place), and now you're talking about something else altogether.

You've answered my question quite succinctly, AV. Cleverness and shiftiness are more important to you than honesty and openness.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now you've taken us way off into lala land.

What started out with you counting how many times he said "I", in a context where that was the only reasonable and honest reply he could have given, (which it's against forum rules to question him like that in the first place), and now you're talking about something else altogether.

You've answered my question quite succinctly, AV. Cleverness and shiftiness are more important to you than honesty and openness.

And I thank you for coming out of the woodwork to contribute your 0¢.