Church Service

[Gregory Thompson]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

 

[Tangible]

in the Divine Service it is God who does the serving and we gratefully receive and return thanks. Jesus Christ came not to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. We should certainly serve our neighbor, but this usually takes place outside of church in our everyday lives.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

in the Divine Service it is God who does the serving and we gratefully receive and return thanks. Jesus Christ came not to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. We should certainly serve our neighbor, but this usually takes place outside of church in our everyday lives.

i still remember that passage that says .. when you gather .. everyone has something to share .. and i think something fell short somewhere when it's just one person sharing and no dialogue . what happens today must be something else .

 

[from scratch]

i still remember that passage that says .. when you gather .. everyone has something to share .. and i think something fell short somewhere when it's just one person sharing and no dialogue . what happens today must be something else.

I think I agree with you. What I wonder is since it is church service if that isn't what we're doing - servicing the church. Some have told me one should only come to give. Just doesn't line up with Heb 10:25 IMHO.

 

[christianmomof3]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

Those are some good points.
Have you read the book "Pagan Christianity"?
I do not agree with the author's conclusions - he pretty much calls for completely autonomous home churches, but he does bring up some interesting research.

 

[PaladinValer]

Those are some good points.
Have you read the book "Pagan Christianity"?
I do not agree with the author's conclusions - he pretty much calls for completely autonomous home churches, but he does bring up some interesting research.

...such as?

And as for the OP, if people want to reconnect to authentic Christian worship, they need look no further that the timeless liturgies that are still practiced in the Apostolic churches and traditional mainline Protestant denominations.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

If one's 'church service' fits the type of order of service defined in another thread as:

• Opening proclamation - a verse from scripture
• Call to worship & short opening prayer
• hymns (anywhere from one to three or four)
• collection (I think it is usually here, or maybe after the sermon?)
• Reading - usually one or possibly two passages from scripture, one being the intended theme of the sermon
• Prayer before sermon
• Sermon
• Prayer of thanks after the sermon
• hymns (usually one or two)
• Dismissal or doxology

It seems to me that one could do these things at home watching the service on television.

The only time one would need to be physically present would be when the collection was taken up and when communion was given.

 

[tadoflamb]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

Serve one another. That's my faith community. In fact, I went to church this morning specifically to serve. Oft times, when I read threads like these, I have to ask myself, "just what church are they going to?" Maybe it's just my particular church, but I love my concrete Christian community.

 

[Second Phoenix]

Those are some good points.
Have you read the book "Pagan Christianity"?
I do not agree with the author's conclusions - he pretty much calls for completely autonomous home churches, but he does bring up some interesting research.

It's just a rehash of the typical ill-informed views of radical protestants that have no appreciation or understanding of the actual early Church that flourish only outside of academic and intellectually honest groups. Their highly individualistic, relativistic thinking is not going back to the early Church, but embraces the thinking of secular Enlightenment philosophy.

Home churches were the result of persecution which made public meetings impossible. Christians believed they were the body of Christ, they saw themselves as a real group that wanted to gather as much as possible, but you can't fit everyone in the same house. Churches began immediately following the toleration of Christianity. Instead of having to meet in scattered home churches, they were now able to meet together in larger numbers.

Is someone going to argue that large meetings of people in a single place is pagan? Churches were totally alien to pagans. Worship was always handled by a handful of people. Christians believed it was important that everyone was part of the worship itself. Home Churches are closer to the practices of pagans and cults.

When the website offers this on the front page:
"Over the years, many people have tried to discount the message of Pagan Christianity by misrepresenting it with straw-man arguments. But the arguments in the book, substantiated by over 1,000 footnotes, still stand.

It just begs not to be taken seriously.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

Totally hear you. I love the traditionally Catholic and Orthodox (both Eastern and Oriental) format of having the liturgy being the springboard for charity. The offering is used not just for the giving of donations, but for the offering up of the Eucharistic elements. Then, after the service (especially among the Orthodox), the excess bread is given back to the community just as the excess donations will be given out as charity over the course of the week.

In the early church, the liturgy was followed by an αγαπη feast, in which the excess bread was used as the basis of a meal in which the whole community- Christians and non-Christians- could participate. The pastor who argued me into being Lutheran (yes, argued!), now runs a church in San Diego in which the congregation goes from the service directly into charitable food-giving in the inner city, reinvigorating this early church tradition.

How wonderful is it when the liturgy- the order of service in which God's history of God's self-giving to humanity is continued in Christ's self-giving to us in he word and sacrament- is continued beyond the liturgy in the church's self-giving to the world?

 

[Thekla]

Those are some good points.
Have you read the book "Pagan Christianity"?
I do not agree with the author's conclusions - he pretty much calls for completely autonomous home churches, but he does bring up some interesting research.

I've not read the book entire, but have read portions on Amazon - and there are enough factual errors in the book (per primary source texts and archeological finds) that I see no point in reading the rest.

Really, they should have researched more carefully ... it seems instead they relied on modern mythologies.
Too bad ...

 

[Second Phoenix]

But... it has a 1000 footnotes, and all arguments against it are strawmen!

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

If one's 'church service' fits the type of order of service defined in another thread as:

• Opening proclamation - a verse from scripture
• Call to worship & short opening prayer
• hymns (anywhere from one to three or four)
• collection (I think it is usually here, or maybe after the sermon?)
• Reading - usually one or possibly two passages from scripture, one being the intended theme of the sermon
• Prayer before sermon
• Sermon
• Prayer of thanks after the sermon
• hymns (usually one or two)
• Dismissal or doxology

It seems to me that one could do these things at home watching the service on television.

The only time one would need to be physically present would be when the collection was taken up and when communion was given.

"Hymns" is a really generous term.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Those are some good points.
Have you read the book "Pagan Christianity"?
I do not agree with the author's conclusions - he pretty much calls for completely autonomous home churches, but he does bring up some interesting research.

From what I've read, the book essentially reverses the arguments of such "counter-cultural" readings of early Christianity containing in the work of Richard Horsley, N.T. Wright, and James Dunn. While they (rightly) see Jesus as countering the pagan-imperial practices of oppression in first century Palestine, they understand Jesus as appropriating those very oppressive practices. Quite frankly. to me, this is both academically dishonest and historically laughable.

No offense, really. I don't want to equate you with the author. But really, it's a century old, outdated charge that has been time and time again discredited by the most credible authorities.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Hymns" is a really generous term.

It is nowadays, at least it is in the "praise & worship" style of meeting. In the more traditional style of meeting the singing is still mainly hymns.

 

[sunlover1]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

That's exactly what folks do already when they're at church.
At least any I've attended.

i find the whole lecture bit not really working ..

What's not working about it?
How would you prefer they teach?

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,

evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the

edifying of the body of Christ...

the rock concert .. not really working .

Rock concert? We don't attend rock concerts.
We do have a great time worshiping God.
LOUDLY! I think we were ran out of the neighborhood.
We have a new location
Maybe it was the LOUD CYMBALS
or the DRUMS AND DANCING!
We bad

Praise the Lord!Praise God in his Temple!
Praise his strength in heaven!
2 Praise him for the mighty things he has done.
Praise his supreme greatness.

3 Praise him with trumpets.
Praise him with harps and lyres.
4 Praise him with drums and dancing.
Praise him with harps and flutes.
5 Praise him with cymbals.
Praise him with loud cymbals.
6 Praise the Lord, all living creatures!

Praise the Lord!

but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

Newer formats?
What's missing compared to what?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

Hmmmmm...no, not a good plan..
We've taken "The church" and made it an event
when in reality it's us..."assembling" is key
But our church meeting is just the huddle to prepare us
to go out and BE the church..as seen below..

What the huddle is for?:
For the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the
edifying of the body of Christ...

 

[Edial]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

I think some people go to church to get "high" on the atmosphere.
It could be singing, watching the choir to perform and some meditate.

Me? If you hear me sing - that would clear a church.
Clap and meditate? - doesn't work for me.

Listen to a sermon? There is better stuff on Internet.

To me church is serving in some capacity as a member of a church family.
Afterwards, we have weekly coffee hour.
The ladies bake, someone's turn to buy bagels, etc.

You should also have someone to talk to.

To BE in a church building (to me) is very important.
There is this feeling. Good feeling.

If I feel I am not wanted in the church or I am not serving in some capacity, I am outta there.

Some just come to church as "permanent guests".
Show up few minutes late and quickly slink out right after the service.
This is a mystery to me.

Why show up at all?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Rev Randy]

Is it a radical idea that people gather together and serve one another? would that be a church service?

i find the whole lecture bit not really working .. the rock concert .. not really working . but hmmm what's missing from the liturgy stuff in the newer formats?

If church consists of listening to a person speak then chat for a bit then go home .. does anyone really need to be there? they could just listen to the sermon online and it's not much different .. what then is church?

some random thoughts about "church" "service"

Why do you attend a Church service? Is it to be pleased or to share your thoughts with others? I'm thinking the purpose is worship and cooperative worship at that. Believe it or not, it's not about us but about offering something to God.
The things you mention are not unimportant and they have their place. A three point sermon with too many words is simply not found in the ancient church at the time of worship. I'm all for Bible studies and conversation on matters of faith. But that is not a worship service. It's a Bible study or a discussion on theology.
There is no need to find something new and exciting . The old way is not broken.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think some people go to church to get "high" on the atmosphere.
It could be singing, watching the choir to perform and some meditate.

Me? If you hear me sing - that would clear a church.
Clap and meditate? - doesn't work for me.

Listen to a sermon? There is better stuff on Internet.

To me church is serving in some capacity as a member of a church family.
Afterwards, we have weekly coffee hour.
The ladies bake, someone's turn to buy bagels, etc.

You should also have someone to talk to.

To BE in a church building (to me) is very important.
There is this feeling. Good feeling.

If I feel I am not wanted in the church or I am not serving in some capacity, I am outta there.

Some just come to church as "permanent guests".
Show up few minutes late and quickly slink out right after the service.
This is a mystery to me.

Why show up at all?

Thanks,
Ed

Real talk...

Thanks for sharing and glad to see you're still around - as I was wondering where you were at

 

[Rev Randy]

Serve one another. That's my faith community. In fact, I went to church this morning specifically to serve. Oft times, when I read threads like these, I have to ask myself, "just what church are they going to?" Maybe it's just my particular church, but I love my concrete Christian community.

Brother, I'm thinking many are out there trying to accomplish Church worship alone and seeking excuses why they don't become a part of a community. I was completely shocked to discover how many posting in this forum believe they can "do the same thing alone at home".