How do non-Catholics explain Eucharistic miracles, such as bleeding, and Marian...

[Root of Jesse]

I watched the video.

Never heard Jesus mentioned once.

As far as "pointing" to God.

What does that mean.

As far as believing in God.

The devils do that.

I don't recall that there is video of the events that took place in Fatima.

What light does the moon give off?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Could be first impressions, even as we have heard the saying, "if it quacks like a duck" its typically a duck.

That sort of thing

That would be judging people, don't ya think? That would be placing your own ideas on what others do. Just as I wouldn't watch a watch someone dancing in their yard and think they were worshipping anything.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Parables and symbolism, something your church has yet to recognize properly. You're so keen on what Christ plainly said, tell me why is it that you don't recognize His words when He said: "Give place, for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth"?

And notice how the souls under the altar are told to rest. Please don't tell me you think that all the souls in heaven are literally under the altar taking a break?

Who are you, and by what authority, do you judge what's proper and what's not?

The souls in heaven hear our prayers and present them to God.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm sorry, I didn't know that prayer was the sole property of the Catholic church. When did that happen?

Well, it is the sole property of the Church Christ instituted, because His Church is One.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Here I was thinking that was the job of the Holy Spirit.

Why would the HOly Spirit reflect back to God when the Holy Spirit IS God?

 

[Optimax]

I don't recall that there is video of the events that took place in Fatima.

What light does the moon give off?

The video that More Coffee posted back a few pages.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06

I'm sorry, I didn't know that prayer was the sole property of the Catholic church. When did that happen?
​

Well, it is the sole property of the Church Christ instituted, because His Church is One.

Sounds good to me


.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm going to have to look those up



So your reverence to Mary is why you're privileged to see these manifestations?

Even God speaks in a still, small voice. He doesn't jump up and down and say Here I am!. Those who don't give Mary her due don't get the privilege. Same with the Eucharist.

 

[plmarquette]

Why do the faithful deny ... literal Mark 16.16-20 ... signs, wonders, and miracles, accompany those who believe (faith) ...

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you're eating flesh and blood it's cannibalism.

If it's human, yes. But if it's divine flesh, no. You eat beef, that's not cannibalism, but it's flesh...

I'm not refusing to realize it. I just don't make the distinction when I type. I was hoping by context you could tell what I was referring to. Either way it doesn't take away from what I said. The Jews had their holy Tradition much the same as your church does now. That Tradition was held above the word of God and lead to them missing out on His first coming. Many will miss out on the second one as well for the same reason.

No, they don't. They have traditions and Scripture. We have Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. We have traditions, as well, but our traditions don't explain Scripture like our Traditions do.

Every miracle I read from Christ brought healing and relief to suffering. Stigmata, from what I understand, is ridiculously painful. To think that God would put something like that upon one of His children as a "sign" or "miracle" is absolutely ridiculous.

Being human and alive is painful, too. Ridiculously painful. People have asked God to unite them to Christ's suffering, which is a way of being in communion with Him. Good Christians deny themselves things every day. It's called self-discipline. I don't pretend to know or understand some of the extreme cases of suffering. I know that one of the most revered saints inside or outside Catholicism, St. Francis, not only had the wounds, but also manifestations of the nails. St. Paul writes of the thorn in his side, that he asked God to take away. The response was "My grace is sufficient for you." The paradox is that when we're weakest, we're strong, and when we're strong is our weakest time.

 

[ananda]

Why do the faithful deny ... literal Mark 16.16-20 ... signs, wonders, and miracles, accompany those who believe (faith) ...

Mk 16:16-20 indicates only very specific signs.

 

[Stryder06]

Who are you,

Stryder06. Ordained Elder of the Seventh Day Adventist Church (not that that matters).

and by what authority, do you judge what's proper and what's not?

The authority given to all of God's children.

The souls in heaven hear our prayers and present them to God.

No they don't, because that was only a metaphor. Such a highly symbolic book and you want to take that as literal just because your church tells you to.

 

[Stryder06]

I'm not denying that these things happened. I'm just saying that they're not of God. I'm not the one not seeing my friend. What your church is selling you is coming from the wrong vendor.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Except that I was taken to classes
weekly for many years.
All those years and never given
a bible or encouraged to read one
NO Bible reading by any of us in
the classes all of those years.
Cmon!

Not even a Bible in the church
classrooms..
It's common knowledge Jesse,
that the RCC did not encourage
Bible study, Here's an article
from a RCC Site:

Why Don't Catholics Read the Bible
[FONT=Georgia,'Times New Roman',Times,serif]Its true that many Evangelicals know their Bible upside down and backwards, and compared to them Catholics sometimes seem ignorant of the Bible. But that’s only an appearance.[/font]
[FONT=Georgia,'Times New Roman',Times,serif]The truth is simply that Catholics and Evangelicals use the Bible in different ways and therefore have different kinds of Bible knowledge. Evangelicals use the Bible as a source book for doctrine and right moral teaching, and that’s good. 2 Timothy 3.16 says the Scriptures are ‘useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.’ Evangelicals also use the Bible for personal devotions and inspiration. This too is Biblical. Psalm 119.27 says, ‘Let me understand the teaching of your precepts; then will I meditate on your wonders.’[/font]
[FONT=Georgia,'Times New Roman',Times,serif]Ordinary Catholics might not be so adept at quoting chapter and verse, but they do know and use Scripture regularly. Its just that they use it in a different way. For a Catholic, Scripture is not so much a book to be studied as a book to worship with. (Ps. 119.7) For Catholics the Bible is almost always used in the context of worship. Did you know that a survey was done to check the amount of Scripture used in the Catholic Mass? The Catholic service was almost 30% Scripture. When the same writer checked his local Bible-based Evangelical church he was surprised to find the total amount of Scripture read took just 3% of the service.[/font]

And that was my experience.
No Bible study

Well, the Churches I'm familiar with don't really have classrooms, unless there's a school attached, so that would be strike one.

Second strike-if you thought you wanted a Bible, why not ask for one?

Third strike-The Bible is read at Mass every day. Daily Mass, a reading from the OT or NT, usually quite substantial, an entire psalm, and a Gospel reading. Sunday Mass, two readings, a psalm and a Gospel reading. In fact, Scripture reading takes about 40% of the Mass, and the rest of the Mass is full of Scripture quotations.

Lastly, I'm not blaming you for this understanding. You were, as I said, poorly catechized. Any gathering at Church when we're there to learn (outside of bingo and spaghetti dinner, that is), is about Scripture study.

I realize that a lot of Catholics do not read the Bible. That's their fault. Those of us who live our faith do read it, mostly every day.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The video that More Coffee posted back a few pages.

Oh, the movie. Nuff said. Not that it's a bad movie, but it's hard to fit all the facts in a movie.

 

[Stryder06]

Well, it is the sole property of the Church Christ instituted, because His Church is One.

Saints were praying well before the church was established as it is now. How can you even think to say something like this? Don't try to play word games with me. I wasn't speaking about the collective body of Christians when I asked you that question.

 

[Stryder06]

Why would the HOly Spirit reflect back to God when the Holy Spirit IS God?

Because that's what He does. The better question is why would Mary be needed at all when she's only human...and dead. Can't forget that part.

Even God speaks in a still, small voice. He doesn't jump up and down and say Here I am!.

God spoke to Elijah one time in a still small voice, and everyone seems to think that's the only way He talks. He also speaks from among fire and lighting in a voice as loud as a trumpet. And what does that have to do with anything? God deserves reverence. Mary doesn't.

Those who don't give Mary her due don't get the privilege. Same with the Eucharist.

What due? What does she deserve? I would think that those who don't would need to get it all the more so they would see that they were walking in the wrong way.

 

[Stryder06]

If it's human, yes. But if it's divine flesh, no. You eat beef, that's not cannibalism, but it's flesh...

Oh please stop. Cannibalism is defined as eating human flesh. Eating animal flesh makes me a carnivore, not a cannibal. Christ is fully human. If you're eating human flesh and drinking human blood, your committing cannibalism. It's that simple.

No, they don't. They have traditions and Scripture. We have Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. We have traditions, as well, but our traditions don't explain Scripture like our Traditions do.

Oh please tell me how you figure you have "Tradition" while they only had "tradition"? They are the ones who were intrusted with the Oracles of God, who's ancestors talked with and saw Him. You have to be kidding yourself if you were to think for a single moment that your traditions ought to carry more weight.

Being human and alive is painful, too. Ridiculously painful. People have asked God to unite them to Christ's suffering, which is a way of being in communion with Him.

This would be impossible. People have died more painful deaths than Christ had in regards to straight physical torture. What cause Christ the most pain and suffering was carrying the worlds sins on his shoulders, and being separated from the Father. That is a mental anguish that no one can ever understand. These individuals aren't being united to Christ in His suffering, because they can't even come close to it. It's simply not possible.

Good Christians deny themselves things every day. It's called self-discipline. I don't pretend to know or understand some of the extreme cases of suffering. I know that one of the most revered saints inside or outside Catholicism, St. Francis, not only had the wounds, but also manifestations of the nails. St. Paul writes of the thorn in his side, that he asked God to take away. The response was "My grace is sufficient for you." The paradox is that when we're weakest, we're strong, and when we're strong is our weakest time.

Paul's thorn was symbolic, not literal. Manifestations of nails and the marks from the crucifixion are nothing more than demonic. Like seriously, what person would want to see someone else suffer and go "GLORY TO GOD!" It's like if Peter had gone "Silver and gold have I not, but that which I have give I unto you, in the name of Jesus Christ - BLEED!"

 

[Fireinfolding]

Why do the faithful deny ... literal Mark 16.16-20 ... signs, wonders, and miracles, accompany those who believe (faith) ...

I believe both are possible

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

To exercise caution when looking for signs and wonders

I mean after all there is that which is also called doctrine of devils, which come in the form of the forbidding of marrying and abstaining from meats. Even as it speaks of the same working miracles too

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So I believe in both as is shown as well.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Oh please stop. Cannibalism is defined as eating human flesh. Eating animal flesh makes me a carnivore, not a cannibal. Christ is fully human. If you're eating human flesh and drinking human blood, your committing cannibalism. It's that simple.

Christ is fully divine. We're eating divine flesh and drinking divine blood. You're committing judgement. It's that simple.

Oh please tell me how you figure you have "Tradition" while they only had "tradition"? They are the ones who were intrusted with the Oracles of God, who's ancestors talked with and saw Him. You have to be kidding yourself if you were to think for a single moment that your traditions ought to carry more weight.

Pretty simple, really. God ordained the Apostles, and they, and those they ordained, bestowed with the Holy Spirit, gave us Sacred Tradition. In OT times, the Prophets spoke for God. After God was cruicified and rose, in the NT Times, they gave us the interpretations of the Scripture written about Christ.

This would be impossible. People have died more painful deaths than Christ had in regards to straight physical torture. What cause Christ the most pain and suffering was carrying the worlds sins on his shoulders, and being separated from the Father. That is a mental anguish that no one can ever understand. These individuals aren't being united to Christ in His suffering, because they can't even come close to it. It's simply not possible.

So you judge. Only God knows how close to Christ they are. You most certainly don't.

Paul's thorn was symbolic, not literal. Manifestations of nails and the marks from the crucifixion are nothing more than demonic. Like seriously, what person would want to see someone else suffer and go "GLORY TO GOD!" It's like if Peter had gone "Silver and gold have I not, but that which I have give I unto you, in the name of Jesus Christ - BLEED!"

No, it was real.
Again, if you think life is so beautiful, you must be living in Lala land. Life is tough. Every day is a struggle. Some struggle more than others. I know a guy who lives with Down's Syndrome. He's 63 years old, and he's a joy to be around. I'm sure he is challenged every day.
Why would God make us struggle so much? Why did God put Paul through so much pain? Why did He allow Peter to be crucified upside down? Why did he allow Joan of Arc to be roasted at the stake? Why does he allow witnesses for the faith be butchered? I guess he's trying to show us that this world isn't anything to desire, that the next one is.